Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Meat Damage

I saw somewhere a while back that John claimed he'd seen to noticeable difference in killing power in cartridges from .25 to .33 calibre. Is this reflected also in meat damage for the most part? I always figured bullet design would play about as much part in meat damage as the cartridge it's fired from, at least, but there seems to be a pretty widespread opinion that cartridges like the 7mm and .300 magnums will obliterate enormous quantities of meat while something like a .270 or a .308 won't.

I know range plays a big part in determining how fast a bullet is travelling when it hits game, but since we don't tend to carry three different rifles on a day's hunting to use depending how far away an animal appears, I guess I'm looking for an experience to reflect a broad range of circumstances. Say, on shots ranging from 30 or 40 yards in scrub to 400 yards across open hillside, are you really going to notice more meat damage as a rule from say a .300 win mag over a .270?

The background to this is that, here in Ireland, there's not a whole pile of big country as such, and you might find yourself fighting through thick brush one minute and hiking across a few miles of open hillside the next, and so shots can range from short to long pretty quickly. While our predominant deer species (sika) aren't large, they're quite tough to put down and certainly not prone to giving up the ghost without a scrap, so rounds like the .270 that can hit hard at range are quite popular. However, I was talking about a .300 mag as a good all-rounder and a lot of guys think it's going to destroy a lot of meat. Personally, I don't think it'll destroy more than a .270 at a given range, assuming a good quality projectile is used, and while it'll kick harder, it's still easy enough on the shoulder.

The rifle would have a secondary use as a travelling rifle, the intention being that it would get a lot of use at home and be very familiar, rather than being specifically used to hunt in Europe and Africa and not used much at home. As such, while I know it's not necessary for sika stags at home, it's not going to kill them too dead, but will it render a lot of meat wasted? I know a much more moderate round might be much kinder, particularly at short range, but as compared to the likes of a .270 or a .30-06, which would be other favourites here, is it going to make a whole lot of difference?

I'm posing this here because of what JB said about sample sizes and their relevance, and I figure that he might have something to offer in terms of a broad analysis.

A .300Mag, at close range, can generate a LOT of very inedible meat.

It depends on where you hit them. If the bullet strikes where there is little editable meat, such as the rib cage on a heart- lung shot it won't destroy much editable meat, because there is very little editable meat in that location.

Yes, a hit in the hind quarters will destroy meat, whether from a .300 or a .270 or a 7mm Mag. Especially a 7mm Mag.

Same goes for the shoulders, or anywhere there is edible meat.

A 7 mag always caused more meat damage, than a Marlin .444 for me! I'm talkin' shoulder here!

Not MD, but I went through a few year stretch of using 150-165 standard (150 Sierra, 165 Hornady BTSP, etc..) in .300 Wins and .300 WBY. In my experience these dropped deer faster on average than standard cals such as .270, .280, .06, .35 Whelen as every chest shot was straight down whether bone or not. These lighter 30 cal bullets at 32-3400 fps were simply bombs for me. Different shot angles - didn't matter, the perceived increased killing power came at a cost...lost meat and though rib shots as somebody mentioned were not as bad the bloodshot was still severe. I only did this for a few years (maybe a 8-10 deer) and switched to 180s and premiums in .300 Mags and the meat damage is down and deer drop fast enough, but I see no difference compared to a .270, .280, or .30-06(which is why I often choose a .270 or .280). Since this time I have seen various deer killed with light fragile bullets in .300s that went a ways, but still think on average they have more instant drops. So in summary, if you run a tough bullet in the .300s to offset meat damage, my opinion on deer sized game is it kills no better so why put up with the recoil. Heck, my best hunting bud after years of carrying a .300 RUM and using premium of the week finally switched to a .25-06 after seeing me and his wife & niece dump deer just as fast with a .270 & 7mm-08s respectively.

Lou

I'm of the opinion that a chambering having an upper end velocity combined with a lighter and/or more frangible projectile will tend to cause more damage than the same chambering having a standard velocity with a heavier and/or stouter constructed projectile. I've seen several combinations of light for caliber bullets loaded to higher velocities take down game animals like a lightning bolt. But those I've used and observed turned most everything near the bullet path into jelly when shot within a normal hunting range. Flip side, using standard velocity heavier for caliber projectiles, such as a 150gr-270win, 180gr-30-06, etc., I've experienced a tendency for clean kills with less waste.

I'm sure there are many outstanding combinations for maximizing meat yield, but the most effective combination I ever experienced during the decade plus I culled deer, was from my bear rifle chambered in 375H&H shooting standard velocity 270 to 300gr bullets. I ran a long string of kills with this combination where I shot through both lungs over the heart making for impressive DRT kills while saving the heart for table fare. Most of the other combinations I used, which would equal the DRT performance, tended to destroy the heart causing a fair amount of blood shot meat. Some combinations were absolutely obnoxious in wanton waste.

So for me, I prefer combinations where I can shoot high lung over the heart making for a clean kill while saving the heart. I pass on combinations that more often then not destroys the heart while causing excessive blood shot meat. I rarely shoot game animals beyond 200-300 yards, so it's not difficult finding a combination that works well from point blank out to that distance. I think the guys shooting game animals way out beyond this range may run into trouble finding a combination to work at max range while not acting like a hand grenade at point blank range.

Best

I think bullet design(and placement)has more to do with meat damage than does the caliber of choice. A 243 can do quite a bit of damage with the wrong bullet.

Velocity and bullet construction...

DaveIRL,

My experience is that meat damage depends on all the things mentioned so far: placement, velocity, bullet size and bullet construction.

If you put a fast, heavy, fragmenting bullet in the wrong place, it will ruin a lot of meat, but any of the four factors listed can cause considerable meat destruction. I've seen 100-grain Triple Shocks (generally a very meat-friendly bullet) ruin considerable venison with a double-shoulder shot from a .257 Roberts. Have also seen a 168-grain Berger VLD started at 3200 fps from a .300 Winchester spoil about one bite of meat. It all depends.

I would go ahead and buy your .300 and use it in Ireland for hunting and practice, with some sort of non-fragmenting 180-grain bullet such as a TSX or E-Tip, if you can get them. Such a combo NORMALLY won't chew up as much meat as a .270 with more fragile bullets.

I got hunt a little in Ireland a few years ago, mostly culling fallow deer, and had a wonderful time. I loved the country, the people, the food, the hunting and the beer and whisky!

Thanks John. I tend to like the partitions, and was thinking of running a 180gr partition for everything, or something similar. As I think I've mentioned before, handloading isn't a realistic option here, so we're limited to factory ammo, and I'd probably stick to something like that. If you're back over here again, give me a shout. May or may not be able to offer a hunt, depending on the time of year, but there's always a glass of good whiskey.

"Meat damage" occurs when an animal runs off and dies and is not recovered. Anchor them on the spot with proper placement of a bullet that penetrates reliably and there will be plenty to eat. No "magnum" required.

The least meat damage on deer that I have had consistently with any chambering/bullet combo is easily the .357 Maximum with heavy cast boolits, 190 or 215 gr. w/GC. They were hell on deer out to 200 yds in Iowa and I could always eat up to the hole, no matter where I drilled it, and a blind man with a cane could have followed the blood trails. I should never have sold that Encore barrel...

For quite a few years I hunted deer and elk with a 300 Win Mag. I load my own ammo a max dose of RL-22 and a 180 gr Partition took 2 bull elk and 10-12 deer. My line of thought with elk is to anchor them on the spot and placement is the key. On the deer I like my eating and don't usually hunt where a 40-100 yd death run will be a negative factor.Double lunged most of the deer and some shot at an angle as it was there or forget it.The 180 gr Partition did the job with less meat loss than I experienced with std bullets driven to that 3100 fps level. I don't think anybody factory loads the 180 Partition to 3100 fps like my handloads were with RL-22 but Federal Premiums are availible in the 300 Win Mag with 180 gr Partition loaded to about 3000 fps. The animals won't know the difference.I think they would serve you and your intended purposes wherever you are.best of luck. Magnum Man

I use a .270 Win. It makes so much meat damage I though of not using it anymore. Instead I decided to just send it through the boiler room and not the shoulder. This makes for nasty gut jobs but easier butchering. I only shoot the boiler now days unless I don't have time for that shot or it's late afternoon without snow.

DaveIRL,

Thanks for the whisky offer! If I ever get back over I might be able to take you up on it.

I did the cull hunt with Heym rifles. I used my host's .25-06, my wife Eileen used a .243, and a couple of other guys used .308's. The ammo supplied was all Remington Core-Lokt, and all did a good job.

The .25-06 that I used was equipped with a 3-12x Schmidt & Bender featuring a ballistic reticle, and my host had used it out to almost 600 yards on fallow, sika and red deer. I even shot a fallow doe at around 400, with his coaching. A nice set-up!

75 grainers from a 243 are not meat friendly!

A buddy of mine made a poor shot on a doe a couple years ago with a 300 winnie. She was quartering toward him and he hit her behind the front shoulder, which sent the bullet into the pelvic bone. It was the nastiest mess I have seen on wild game. This wouldn't have been a problem if he hadn't chosen such a poor shot, but I don't know if the damage would have been as bad with a standard cartridge.

Like Dober mentioned, I have recovered 180 gr .30 Partitions just under the skin of the "off" side of quite a few elk. Those bullets all left the muzzle at just under 3000 fps, and all elk were shot tight behind the shoulder at under 250 yds. Some bullets hit rib bones, some didn't. Either way, they all had large areas of bloodshot tissue around the bullet holes.

Last year I shot my bull with a 168 gr TSX from my .300 Weatherby. Muzzle velocity was 3300 fps and the shot was tight behind his shoulder at less than 100 yds. The following pictures show the entrance and exit holes of that shot. There was very little bloodshot damage. At the shot, the bull took two steps and fell dead.

buffybr - Great job. Seems no one else put it so succintly.

It's NOT the caliber, NOT the velocity!

It's the type,kind,or strength of BULLET. Consider a FMJ for example.

BUT if you hit the ham or shoulder w/anything, you'll have bruising, not the same as BLOODSHOT.

Jerry

Its a trade off, these days I hunt with a 7mm Remington Mag. And I guess the white tails I shoot are about the same size and bone structure as your sitkas in Ireland. All I can tell you is that my shooting has not damaged a whole lot of meat of the four deer I have so far shot this season. I still have a tag, and the season is still on. I been for the last six seasons shooting a federal fusion factory load 150 gr bullet, because it shot well out of my blazers barrel. The most meat I lost was a hand full. Here in CT most hunt on very small lots of land, I have 80 acres so we tend to take very sure shots, and the shooting is not overly far, I made my longest on my property the other day 180 long steps. According to Field Sport Britain, a lot of deer stalkers sell the venison to restaurants. And they go mostly for neck shots. Its all a toss up, bullets will damage meat that is the point. The best thing to do, is to damage the vitals that you don't want to eat anyway. Thru the ribs take out the lungs and get out a sharpe knife. I find Field Sport Britain to be very enjoyable to watch.