Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Winchester 70 Push Feed or Controlled Round Feed

Very few hunters will ever notice a difference between CRF and PF - and even if you do plan on subjecting at PF to terrible conditions, if you give it a little attention once in a while it should work just fine.

I've always had both in the safe and never really understood what all the fuss was about.

I prefer the Classic as it looks much better to me but the PF is a good rifle as well and a much better rifle than a Remington in my opinion. At some point I intend to do a .284 or 280AI with a heavier barrel and scope with turrets, I will use a PF action for that.

Under normal conditions there is no difference in reliability, especially when feeding rounds into the chamber. The CRF is more reliable when it comes to extraction and ejection. Particularly under harsh, dirty conditions or with ammo that might be out of spec.

Given a choice I prefer CRF, but wouldn't pass on a good gun I liked for that reason alone. I sorta think the push feed Winchesters are the most under-rated and under-valued guns on the used market. You can very often find very good guns at bargain prices.

I have a push feed 270 Win and love it. Barrel floated, action bedded; most accurate 270 I've owned.

I have two M70 push feeds from the 1970's that are my favorite rifles, very smooth, both are now wearing custom barrels.

I have both and the one flaw in the ointment is that the commercial and military Mauser extractor (except the Siamese Mauser) needs to be modified to allow it to snap over a cartridge single loaded into the chamber. If it isn't, and a cartridge is loaded into the chamber, the CRF extractor will lodge it into the chamber without engaging, where it can't be extracted. Removal usually requires a cleaning rod. Likewise, if a cartridge isn't picked up by the extractor as it rises from the magazine, same difference - a jammed rifle.

Most major brand sporting rifles made today use a modified extractor that function as a push feed, they'll snap over a cartridge rim loaded into the chamber, or engage one that is missed as it feeds from the magazine.

The myth of the superiority of the controlled round action is just that, a myth. If the situation is so dangerous then use of a double rifle is recommended. That jamming and feeding nonsense was used by the double rifle crowd to discredit the bolt action rifle, it's nothing new.

Pretty much sums up my feelings too. One of my favorite rifles is an older PF Featherweight that I rebarreled with a Douglas tube in .300 WM. Very reliable and lucky rifle for me....I always seem to find large animals when I'm carrying it. But nostalgia always makes me stop a moment and admire any CRF bolt gun.

AND...CRF seems to still find favor among DG hunters, at least among those who worry about doubling-cycling a bolt in a tight situation.

BUT....how many military weapons use CRF anymore? Battle weapons are all DG outfits.

I've got pushfeed XTRs, Classic CRF, and a new to me pre64. All of them work great.

The XTR especially were a well made pushfeed, much nicer finished than other brands.

Personally, i like CRF for staggered magazines, and midline feed for push feed. Many CRF rifles are actually significantly less CRF than folks might realise. There is much more to CRF than just a full-length claw extractor. I can only really see the advantage of CRF in a DGR (however, i use a push feed Blaser R8 on buffalo). However, if i was happy for a push feed action, i spose i just wouldn't choose the PF M70. In a twin lug PF action i cant see the point in going past the Howa/Vanguard action. If i wanted lighter, i'd go the M700.

Really, the only thing that has ever made the M70 "special" was CRF. If it doesn't have CRF it is just another of very many twin lug PF designs. And let's face it, most of us tend to buy a rifle for something that is a bit "special" about it. A push feed M70 is like warm beer. It is still beer, but there is nothing about it to make me like it.

A pushfeed Model 70 XTR is a much nicer finished, smoother running bolt, three-position safety, easier cocking rifle than a Remington or Vanguard. They just feel solid.

I have a push feed .375 H&H and it is a very nice rifle. Quite accurate and I have never had any problem with feeding or ejection. Now, I have not laid upside down on my head and tried it but overall, no problems.

Folks
Having been working on CRF rifles for now on 32 years, here are my experiences.....certainly not the gospel, but facts that I can demonstrate at any time.....
A claw extractor that can slip over a rim(drop a cartridge in the chamber , then close the bolt), can "slip over" the same rim if that round gets too much friction in the chamber(over-pressured, dirty chamber , ammo etc)
Less likely to double feed.....can some one explain to me just how in the hell a claw extractor(or any type extractor or lack there of) will make a person pull the bolt all the way to the rear ? Or not?
Several years ago at the Dallas Safari Show I had the one person who came around every year , I think just to bust my balls. Talked about a #$%^ rifle he had. Made by a famous gunmaker (whose name is mentioned here frequently) on a CRF Model 70. Busted my balls because I had rifles at the Safari Show that were push feed.
After three or four years of this, I got tired of his mouth. I made a bet with him.....bring the $%^& rifle here, I'll make some 375 H&H dummy rounds, and I'll show you how to jam it tighter'n a bulls ass in fly season. Several folks around got interested.
Next day at the aggreed time, he showed up with his rifle. Several folks had gathered to see this.
I put three rounds in the magazine, cycled one in the chamber. Pulled the bolt back just far enough for the round in the magazine to come up, then pushed the bolt as hard as I could.
It jammed so hard we had to get a small hammer and beat on the bolt. He left pissed off, but didnt bother me any more.
I have never saw a CRF that wouldnt do this, its just the way they work. They will jam every time if not worked properly. They will work flawlessly if operated correctly.
Same goes for a pushfeed.
Doubles are certainly better than a bolt from a feeding standpoint. Three shots are tough. Look at the innerds of a double....lots of parts..lots of places for dirt..she must be timed perfectly, or she will fail to fire.
My point is this : I have yet to see ANY type action that I couldn't get to fail pretty quickly one way or another if I worked at it, and none that wouldnt do the job correctly if I did mine.
Charlie

You're a brave soul Charlie...................

RDFinn
Having had to demonstrate this about once a month for the last several years has "stiffened" me in my position.
Better than that, I can tell you how to jam a Ruger #1....first, get in a semi-panic situation....them stick a cartridge about half-way in the chamber, then jerk like hell on the lever....then spend the next several minutes trying to get the lever back down...easier than what you think to screw up when you panic
Charlie

Charlie, sorry, I don't get it. If you pulled back the bolt on that rifle at the gun show...why didn't the cartridge retract with the bolt? That is the whole idea behind having the controlled feed...to retract the cartridge if one should short stroke, rather than allowing another cartridge to butt the one already in the chamber.

The Winchester XTR products that Winchester was making back in the 80's I'd guess, do seem to be nicely finished guns. Even the leveractions from that era had a really nice blue and good wood to metal fit. I've never owned one because I'm left handed, but my buddy hunts with a PF XTR and it probably a better finished gun than any of my factory Remington BDL's. If they made them in a lefty action I'd probably own a few less Remingtons and a few more Winchesters.

Interesting thread, but its gonna be a long winter!
I should add: Thanks to Mr. Sisk for giving us your thoughts.

Long cold winter at that....

Don't you realize that popcorn is bad for you? I have to send in a full report to Moochelle over in Hawaii.