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Brian
Vernon BC Canada
"Nothing in life - can compare to seeing smiles on your children's faces."
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Wade
"Let's Roll!" - Todd Beamer 9/11/01.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Thanks for posting, I try to keep an eye on my dad when we are working very hard. He's had a few close calls with heart attacks in the past, this is a good refresher for what to do.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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While the new standards for CPR are a great improvement, people need to know some important things.
You'll need help. 100 compression's a minute will wear anyone out in a couple or few minutes.
CPR in general doesn't work very well. Get 911 on the phone, and send people to find an AED.
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
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I think the new standards are the result of the medical profession's realization that most people are not going to take the chance of putting their mouth on someone else's unless they REALLY care about them.
"Don't believe everything you see on the Internet" - Abraham Lincoln
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Campfire Ranger
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No, it's finding that the level of oxygen in the blood at the time of the MI is sufficient for the time CPR is effective.. Usually a few minutes...
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
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Joined: May 2008
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Campfire Ranger
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While the new standards for CPR are a great improvement, people need to know some important things.
You'll need help. 100 compression's a minute will wear anyone out in a couple or few minutes.
CPR in general doesn't work very well. Get 911 on the phone, and send people to find an AED.
All CPR does is it buys time until electricity (defib)and drugs arrive.
�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.
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~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire 'Bwana
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One of the Arizona professors who helped with the research on this new CPR protocol spoke at our Rotary Club. It's easier to perform than the older method and appears to be as efficient. DF
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Campfire Regular
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I think the new standards are the result of the medical profession's realization that most people are not going to take the chance of putting their mouth on someone else's unless they REALLY care about them. You hit the point why they have so publically changed their tune. For trained responders they still expect rescue breaths, but they come after compressions. The old curriculum had the breaths occur first. There is little risk of catching a blood born pathogen from doing CPR (but there is a risk). Even if I didn't have my pocket mask, I'd generally give full CPR unless I saw something that gave me pause (lesions, jaundice ect) or there is blood involved.
Last edited by prostrate8; 12/18/11.
<<<<<<<<<<<SPACE FOR RENT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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While the new standards for CPR are a great improvement, people need to know some important things.
You'll need help. 100 compression's a minute will wear anyone out in a couple or few minutes.
CPR in general doesn't work very well. Get 911 on the phone, and send people to find an AED.
+1 DF
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I don't doubt that, but sometimes research and learning is an attempt to address a practical reality. I could be wrong about my hypothesis, but it is based on my own opinion and those I know who are similarly situated.
"Don't believe everything you see on the Internet" - Abraham Lincoln
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Campfire Outfitter
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I think the new standards are the result of the medical profession's realization that most people are not going to take the chance of putting their mouth on someone else's unless they REALLY care about them. Nope. It is more because the studies prove that the blood has enough oxygen to make CPR effective for several minutes without the breathing, and, in reality, if you have not "fixed" the reason you have no pulse for several minutes, it doesn't matter anyhow. (Cold water drowning being a huge exception, but that is because of the hypothermic effect and the decreased oxygen demands) FWIW, I am a rapid response team nurse at a 700 bed hospital in Minneapolis. Your mileage may vary, but my mileage includes doing CPR over 200 times. If you can't shock them out of a lethal rhythm or pace them out of a symptomatic bradycardia, all the CPR in the world is just going to make you tired. They changed a lot more than the CPR with the last revision of ACLS......
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I have performed CPR on MI Patients more than a thousand times in the last 30 plus years and it save patients about 50 % of the time if performed right. This new method looks to be better than nothing. The difference in saving someone or them expiring is how soon you start CPR after they have the MI. Time is the most important aspect whether they live or die.
A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
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Joined: Nov 2010
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
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I think the new standards are the result of the medical profession's realization that most people are not going to take the chance of putting their mouth on someone else's unless they REALLY care about them. Nope. It is more because the studies prove that the blood has enough oxygen to make CPR effective for several minutes without the breathing, and, in reality, if you have not "fixed" the reason you have no pulse for several minutes, it doesn't matter anyhow. (Cold water drowning being a huge exception, but that is because of the hypothermic effect and the decreased oxygen demands) FWIW, I am a rapid response team nurse at a 700 bed hospital in Minneapolis. Your mileage may vary, but my mileage includes doing CPR over 200 times. If you can't shock them out of a lethal rhythm or pace them out of a symptomatic bradycardia, all the CPR in the world is just going to make you tired. They changed a lot more than the CPR with the last revision of ACLS...... goalie's right. Medical research won't give a lot of credence to personal feelings regarding CPR procol(s). It has to be based on research and data collected over a period of time, comparing methods. It's the data that dictate the final product, not concern about people not wanting to do mouth to mouth CPR. DF
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Campfire Outfitter
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I have performed CPR on MI Patients more than a thousand times in the last 30 plus years and it save patients about 50 % of the time if performed right. This new method looks to be better than nothing. The difference in saving someone or them expiring is how soon you start CPR after they have the MI. Time is the most important aspect whether they live or die. You may have had a 50% immediate survival rate, but do you know what your long-term (made it to discharge, home independently) rate was? If I may ask, do you work in a cath-lab? When I worked cath-lab, it seemed like the survival was 10x better than even out in the ICU, let alone on a med-surg floor.
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Joined: May 2008
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Campfire Ranger
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If you can't shock them out of a lethal rhythm or pace them out of a symptomatic bradycardia, all the CPR in the world is just going to make you tired. They changed a lot more than the CPR with the last revision of ACLS...... +10,000,000
�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.
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~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: May 2008
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Campfire Ranger
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I've never understood not shocking trauma.....that was our protocol.
Do any of your jurisdictions allow shocking trauma induced MIs?
�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.
---------------------------------------------------------
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Dec 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Interesting..
Our AED's only shocked a convertable arrhythmia. I don't know if you'd find that in most trauma caused cardiac problems and/or interruptions.
Just a volly FF/EMT talking here.
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 2,412 |
I think the new standards are the result of the medical profession's realization that most people are not going to take the chance of putting their mouth on someone else's unless they REALLY care about them. Nope. It is more because the studies prove that the blood has enough oxygen to make CPR effective for several minutes without the breathing, and, in reality, if you have not "fixed" the reason you have no pulse for several minutes, it doesn't matter anyhow. (Cold water drowning being a huge exception, but that is because of the hypothermic effect and the decreased oxygen demands) FWIW, I am a rapid response team nurse at a 700 bed hospital in Minneapolis. Your mileage may vary, but my mileage includes doing CPR over 200 times. If you can't shock them out of a lethal rhythm or pace them out of a symptomatic bradycardia, all the CPR in the world is just going to make you tired. They changed a lot more than the CPR with the last revision of ACLS...... goalie's right. Medical research won't give a lot of credence to personal feelings regarding CPR procol(s). It has to be based on research and data collected over a period of time, comparing methods. It's the data that dictate the final product, not concern about people not wanting to do mouth to mouth CPR. DF Goalie's not really right. I'm not up on the current High School or Friends and Family curriculium, but the BLS HeartSaver and BLS Health Care version still train rescue breaths with compressions. AHA has said It's better for someone who is not trained at all to at least give compression and no breaths than nothing at all. They believe that fear of mouth to mouth reduces the number of untrained people to give CPR. That's the original point brought up. One other change in current training is to set the mask to the side when doing CPR when not doing breaths. During compressions there is some exchange of oxygen. Covering the mouth would reduce that exchange. Science is showing breathing to be less important than in the past, but it's still one of the main pillars of CPR.
<<<<<<<<<<<SPACE FOR RENT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044 |
I have performed CPR on MI Patients more than a thousand times in the last 30 plus years and it save patients about 50 % of the time if performed right. This new method looks to be better than nothing. The difference in saving someone or them expiring is how soon you start CPR after they have the MI. Time is the most important aspect whether they live or die. You may have had a 50% immediate survival rate, but do you know what your long-term (made it to discharge, home independently) rate was? If I may ask, do you work in a cath-lab? When I worked cath-lab, it seemed like the survival was 10x better than even out in the ICU, let alone on a med-surg floor. I covered all the Codes in the Hospital and ER and i did the Intubations and CPR on most of the Cardiac Arrest patient and Drug Overdose. I was Day shift Supervisor in Cardiopulmonary at IPH Med Center. Most patients i worked with in ER had been in Cardiac Arrest for a while while being transported on EMS. I also did the Intubation in the Cath Lab if needed. I have done mouth to mouth on a few patients but most ambu bag after ET tube
A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
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