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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
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Well with the .264 Win Mag being the Best Elk Cartridge in The World, the situation will slowly change, just have to give it a little time.  Amen brother! Alan Well,gee..........I mean it's had since 1959....how much more time does it need?   One of the things I find interesting about these discussions is that the 270 Win is always used as a "baseline",the standard to beat...and both the 6.5 and 7mm advocates both go to additional lengths to do so.....very high BC bullets and/or longer barrels,faster twists and/or larger cases,etc, etc....touting all this stuff as evidence of superiority over a 270, which chugs along with lower BC's,standard twists dating back to 1925,etc. In some instances these "gains" are substantial....but they mostly show up and can be demonstrated in the hands of the most skilled and talented LR shots.....and come at very great distances.Mere mortals will see little to no benefit. And most of these "gains" have to do with the bullet in flight...I doubt anyone is going to see any dramatic difference in terminal effect. What this tells me is that a good rifleman is on pretty safe ground with the 270. Is he "better" with a 6.5? Maybe, but purely dependent on his personal skill sets. This likely has something to do with why all these 6.5's don't take the world by storm.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
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Scenar - okay.
Seriously, what powder do you use. Not asking charge wt.
Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,252 Likes: 14 |
Once again your dodging the question on why the 6.5's are not so popular? OK, here's your answer--becasue 6.5's haven't caught on in the US like they have in Europe, and guys like you wring their hands over the fact that they can't find ammo. at every corner gas station. BTW, are you packing the right lug wrench now? Throw in a box of ammo. and you're all set.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Tracker
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I use Lapua brass, H4350 and Wolf Magnum primers. I just loaded the same brass(100 rounds)for the third time yesterday and the primer pockets are still nice and tight.
Luck....is the residue of design... ![[Linked Image]](http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp311/patrickgsinclair/96zvyt.gif)
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Scenar - thanks. I just got my Win 70 FTWT in 6.5x55 and it has 22" bll. I'm looking for THE powder to use for 129 - 140 gr bullets. Now I would not expect to get 3000 from 2" shorter bll but I don't have to, 2999 would be close enough. THANKS Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Campfire Tracker
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.270 140gr Nosler AccuBond @ 3000 fps
500 meters, 2099fps, 1370 FP energy
.260 130 VLD @ 3000fps
500 meters, 2197fps, 1393 FP energy
Not real bad for a case burning only 45grs of powder out of a short action.
Now compare a .270 to a .264 Win Mag shooting 140gr VLD's at 3250fps. I like Mule Deers answer best... Yeah, it's obvious by reading numbers that any 6.5 is much superior to any other cartridge.
_________________________
JohnJayco
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.270 140gr Nosler AccuBond @ 3000 fps
500 meters, 2099fps, 1370 FP energy
.260 130 VLD @ 3000fps
500 meters, 2197fps, 1393 FP energy
Not real bad for a case burning only 45grs of powder out of a short action.
Now compare a .270 to a .264 Win Mag shooting 140gr VLD's at 3250fps. Why not compare apples to apples. How does the .270 do with VLD's in different weights? Make sure to use max loads like you did with the .260 Not too many shoot at 500m. Lets see the energy at shorter ranges. You used the BC to gain advantage with the .260
Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you a hunting license and that's pretty close.
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Campfire Tracker
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Isn't that what BC is all about?
Luck....is the residue of design...
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.277 Berger VLD's
130gr-.452
140gr-.487
150gr-.531
Luck....is the residue of design...
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...
What this tells me is that a good rifleman is on pretty safe ground with the 270. Is he "better" with a 6.5? Maybe, but purely dependent on his personal skill sets.
This likely has something to do with why all these 6.5's don't take the world by storm. Inside 300 yards, there is no question about a .270 Win being sufficient for any reasonable use of that cartridge. Most people don't shoot past 300 yards at game. The vast majority of hunters don't know much about shooting in the wind either, and the .270 Win is better than a lot of other cartridges in the wind due to its velocity/BC combination. However, wind is really the only variable once you have a targeting solution for the distance, vertical angle, and other atmospheric conditions (e.g., elevation/temperature/barometric pressure components) of the trajectory solution, which don't vary like wind does. With wind being the ultimate variable for shooting past 300 yards, using high BC bullets gives more margin for error in guessing the wind between you and the target (even with a wind gauge in your possession, you don't know exactly what the wind speed and direction is at other locations between you and your target). What the 6.5mm cartridges give you is good to excellent BCs for a given bullet weight and design, and that gives you longer "practical" range for a given wind speed and muzzle velocity, assuming one is serious about dispatching the game quickly and not just pulling the trigger and hoping.
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Campfire Tracker
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Luck....is the residue of design...
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Campfire Tracker
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Isn't that what BC is all about? Yes, it is if you're a sniper. Why not use the .270 bullet with the highest BC if you're going to compare. Bottom line is the .270 will kill everything I shoot at, if I do my part. The .260 won't do it any better, or even as good. Lots of cartridges have more speed and power than the .270. So what? More speed...more meat damage. More power...more recoil.
Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you a hunting license and that's pretty close.
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The difference in diameter between the 264 Win Mag and 270 Winchester is .013 almost double what the difference is between the 7Mag and 270 Win at .007. But all things being equal,diameter means nothing,does it? Jayco
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Campfire Ranger
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Well seems BobNH hit the nail on the head
Most everything TRIES to beat the 270.
I think ENTRENCHED competition is a BIG reason the 6.5s are not as popular.
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Isn't that what BC is all about? Yes, it is if you're a sniper. Why not use the .270 bullet with the highest BC if you're going to compare. Bottom line is the .270 will kill everything I shoot at, if I do my part. The .260 won't do it any better, or even as good. Lots of cartridges have more speed and power than the .270. So what? More speed...more meat damage. More power...more recoil. If you want to open up the scope, take practically any cartridge with any bullet diameter, and you can do better from a BC and wind drift standpoint with a 6.5mm with the same muzzle velocity. Yes, you can talk about RUM and STW cartridges, but once you go there, you could have a 6.5mm version of those too. You would be very hard pressed to come up with an example better than the 6.5mm cartridge for a given bullet weight and recoil level. Lots of other cartridges get the job done, but if wind is a consideration, the 6.5mm cartridge of whatever size you want is going to be your best bet for giving you the most margin for error and practical distance given the wind conditions.
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...
What this tells me is that a good rifleman is on pretty safe ground with the 270. Is he "better" with a 6.5? Maybe, but purely dependent on his personal skill sets.
This likely has something to do with why all these 6.5's don't take the world by storm. Inside 300 yards, there is no question about a .270 Win being sufficient for any reasonable use of that cartridge. Most people don't shoot past 300 yards at game. The vast majority of hunters don't know much about shooting in the wind either, and the .270 Win is better than a lot of other cartridges in the wind due to its velocity/BC combination. However, wind is really the only variable once you have a targeting solution for the distance, vertical angle, and other atmospheric conditions (e.g., elevation/temperature/barometric pressure components) of the trajectory solution, which don't vary like wind does. With wind being the ultimate variable for shooting past 300 yards, using high BC bullets gives more margin for error in guessing the wind between you and the target (even with a wind gauge in your possession, you don't know exactly what the wind speed and direction is at other locations between you and your target). What the 6.5mm cartridges give you is good to excellent BCs for a given bullet weight and design, and that gives you longer "practical" range for a given wind speed and muzzle velocity, assuming one is serious about dispatching the game quickly and not just pulling the trigger and hoping. The majority of hunters can shoot good groups past 300yds at the range. With no pressure, a solid rest, and no wind. Put them in the field with adrenalin flowing, shaky rest, wind, and they should never take the shot, but they do. When someone tells me they made/took a long shot past 300yds. I have one comment to them.............Don't feel bad. Next time you'll get closer.
Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you a hunting license and that's pretty close.
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If you're going to limit yourself to 300 yards, you don't need a .270 Win. A .250 Savage (and any number of other cartridges) would probably do just as well.
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I'm not a sniper, I'm a hunter and I want every advantage I can get when it comes to killing big game animals. Bullet efficiency does matter.
Luck....is the residue of design...
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Campfire Tracker
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Isn't that what BC is all about? Yes, it is if you're a sniper. Why not use the .270 bullet with the highest BC if you're going to compare. Bottom line is the .270 will kill everything I shoot at, if I do my part. The .260 won't do it any better, or even as good. Lots of cartridges have more speed and power than the .270. So what? More speed...more meat damage. More power...more recoil. If you want to open up the scope, take practically any cartridge with any bullet diameter, and you can do better from a BC and wind drift standpoint with a 6.5mm with the same muzzle velocity. Yes, you can talk about RUM and STW cartridges, but once you go there, you could have a 6.5mm version of those too. You would be very hard pressed to come up with an example better than the 6.5mm cartridge for a given bullet weight and recoil level. Lots of other cartridges get the job done, but if wind is a consideration, the 6.5mm cartridge of whatever size you want is going to be your best bet for giving you the most margin for error and practical distance given the wind conditions. To be fair, because you probably don't know. I play with long shots at the range for amusement. Our range goes to 500 yds. However, i'm a still hunter who hunts in timber. My goal is to get as close as possible. Not see how far I can shoot. A good BC is not important to me for hunting. I know too many hunters who think they do spot and stalk hunting. What they really do is spot and shoot. I can't see it, but that's me.
Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you a hunting license and that's pretty close.
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You should use a 30/30 then.
Luck....is the residue of design...
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