Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Back from the elk wars.

Aside from a couple shot with the 300 WSM, that's been my observation too... my first elk, a spike bull, took a 210 Partition in the scapula/lungs and dropped immediately to the shot (70 yards)... non CNS hit. Elk thrashed around and couldn't get up.

Too, I think a bullet that shrapnel's like the Partition will give more reaction to a lung hit than an x-type bullet.

The post from BW shows again that one cannot predict any visual reaction with a particular bullet brand, weight or caliber. The only thing we do know is that the more you destroy their circulatory system, the quicker they will lose blood pressure, go into shock and die. These bigger animals are "dead on their feet" but the brain hasn't computed it yet. Assuming reliable reporting, the anecdotal stories that collect here begin to show some general patterns of which we can draw some conclusions.

On this trip I saw Bryce Towsleys' American Hunter article on elk calibers from Oct. 2010. He advocates a 30 cal. cartridge with a minimum 180gr delivering 2000 ft. lbs. at the point of impact. His minimum listed was the 30-06. He did preface his remarks by saying that sub 30's can do the job but plus 30's will do it better. Intuitively I can't argue that point except a notched tag still indicates success.

I hear you Mac, I also know that I've seen a lot of elk bounced by speed. My 7 Mashburn Super for instance has put elk on the turf quicker than other rounds. Other excellent combo's for quick lights out kills have been the .270 normally with a 130 Sierra Bt.

As you know I ran amuck with a .340 for quite a while and it did it's job well also.

I've seen a lot of elk taken between 400 and 650 and it's then that the speed comes into play for turfing them quickly. Or at least that's been my experience.

One exercise for BW to try would be to shoot 10 elk with the 150 Noz Pt and then 10 elk with the 130 and say a Sierra Bt or a 140 Sierra HPBT. I feel that he'd find them hitting the turf faster with the Sierra BT. Tough thing here obviously is having the time to amass that kind of experience. It's not something that many will see.

I've said this before, one of my best friends and mentors in life who's killed more big bulls than anyone I know states that day in and day out his 25/06 bounced elk quicker than his 340 or 338 or big 30's.

For fast kills at long range (400+) I still like my Mashburn. For sub 300 I feel that most rounds (within reason) are the same.

If one hits CNS then the critters gonna hit the turf now, may thrash a bit but it'll go down quickly.

I still like a lightweight .270 and 375 H&H. And for me I want to have 2 holes in an elk and make them leak a lot of blood and ruin as much of the internals as is possible.

And, as we both no there's no flies on a light 300 WSM either.

Tons of good rounds, tons of good ways to go about this. Tough thing is to find the time to go, and the quality land (talking public) to go on. And of course having decent enough knee's to get it done as well...

Dober

Dober,
I don't think I have enough time left to go 20 years with two bullet types. Maybe 5 and 5 if I stay healthy and the rest with a camoed walker!

The good news is that most bullets will do just fine, it would be nice to have more time though wouldn't it..grin

Dober

Great report with all the rifle loony details we love. I think we all know that anything from a 260, 270, 7mm-08 on up will work on elk with good hits. I do believe what Jim Carmichael wrote about cartridges like the .338 Win mag on up giving more visible reactions to hits. He said the .338's made them "rubbery in the knees". This confirms my experience, which is limited compared some of the dedicated elk hunters here.

After reading a few of his articles, I wouldn't listen to a word Bryce typed. That guy is a total blowhard and has very little actual knowledge about elk. He hung around this forum for a while, IIRC, until someone called him out after an article he wrote about elk cartridges. He wouldn't answer the question of how many elk he'd actualy shot and as far as I know, hasn't posted on the campfire since. Moral of the story: eastern (or maybe Bryce is mid-western?) whitetail hunters shouldn't go around pretending they are Keiths or O'Connors...or Barsnesses, Van Zwolls, etc.

Bellydeep. I stopped posting on here because it always degrades into a name calling contest or some kind of �gotcha� game. I don�t have time for that foolishness. As for how many elk I have shot, I really don�t know. I don�t keep a running tally of anything hunt often. I could tell you how many leopards (1), elephant (1), cape buffalo (4) and brown bears (1), ad infinitium. But, whitetails or elk, hell I don�t know. I suppose I could count them up, but what number would make you happy? If I told you it was 20 would that be enough? How about 40? Maybe it�s 100, ah but now I am a game hog. There is no number that will not bring criticism. Sorry, but I am not about to be sucked into that game. I have shot enough elk so that the editors of the major hunting magazines believe I am qualified to write the articles I write. Let me also note that a lot of those hated �easterners� have probably shot more elk than you have. They have this wonderful invention called an airplane and it lets even �easterners� hunt elk every single year if they would like. Sometimes in more than one state. Just because you live in the west you don�t have an exclusive on the species. I might add that I also don�t hide behind a screen name when I insult other people. You might not like what I write, but at least I have the courage to let you know who I am.

OK, I am done. Off to the SHOT show, I won�t be responding to any of the inevitable attacks that will follow here. As we do every year Rick and I will discuss why I don�t post more and this year I�ll refer him to this string.

I may be out in left field here, but IMO/IME with shooting a variety of game the ones that had the most visible reaction to the shot and went down the fastest where shot with bullets that most on this site would view as sub par/too soft for whitetails.
Nosler BT, Speer Grandslams, Sierra Gamekings, and Hornady BTSP have always worked for me and seem to put em on the turf faster than bullets like Barnes and Partitions. And I drive all these bullets fast....

B-pretty much sums up my thoughts as well.

Dober

I agree to a point... will take exception to the Partition though, the front half acts just like any other soft point. That's the beauty of the design... "grenade and penetrate."

X's and Bonded bullets have far less "Shrapnel Effect."

It is too bad UMT is reluctant to post but he does have a point about topics here degrading. I think a healthy debate is helpful but when its just "name calling" it ruins it for everyone.
The reason I brought him up here is that Mr. Towsley represented a different point of view to consider. It wasn't my intent to set him up to be whacked at. I wasn't aware he was lurking here at all. His article was talking about bull elk which I believe is a different "animal" from its female counterpart. But a forum such as this can bring out all kinds of comments and discourse........so you pay your money and take your chances.

I hear ya Mac, but I'll stay strong in my belief that the Sierra, Horn, and NBT's take em down quicker. And yet they pretty much exit as often as other tougher brands.

But, I do hear you on the front end of the NPT thingy. I really liked the 250 NPT out of my .340 on critts. I did flatten some elks and yotes with that load..grin

Dober

Woop, next time shoot the elk where the dark and light hair meet on the neck, it won't matter want cartridge or bullet you use. That's the DRT shot.

I think I have put enough elk on the ground over many years to substantiate that it is not what you hit them with,but where.Certainly more than the 20 or so referenced. Many of the statements of elk being hard to kill are from poorly placed shots, not the cartridge.I have killed elk with a 44 mag, .308, 7mag, 45-70,.06,and a 50 cal ML. I have seen no differnce in the killing ability of any of them.I don't worry about two holes as except for one elk, I have never had to track one for mor than a hundred yards.The longe one was hit poorly with a 7 mag ,the next longest one was with a poorly placed ML shot.
Other than that it is usually 10-15 yards.

I don't get the idea that they need to be seen hit hard. All animals take a certain amount of time to die and most hunters don't seem to want to wait for that.

So the 338 or what ever whiz bang cartridge will show more noticeable hit.So will a 50 bmg.But why is that needed?
I will agree that fast/heavier is better when you are talking about 400+ yards shot if you want to deliver more down range energy, which is why alot of the magnumitis was originally developed for.But by far the average shot on an elk is well under two hundred yards.
Two examples.A few years ago maybe 5 ,I killed a raghorn bull with a 44 mag carbine that dropped on the spot. In 2009 I killed a 7x8 bull , probably 10-12 years old withan .06, 220 gr rn.It dropped on the spot.Both shots were about 60 yards.THe raghorn was probably 400-450 lbs,but that big mature bull certainly did not go 600 bs as some have claimed bulls do.Maybe the far north ones in Alberta as they tend to run bigger.

Congrats on a succesful hunt! The .270 and the 150NP is a wonderful elk getter! The fact that your cow went as far as she did has absolutey nothing to do with caliber size. Any caliber with a similiar bullet put in the same spot as your cow would of had the same results. Excellent results by the way!

For me a Partition behind the shoulder that dosen't exit results in consistant 20yd tracking jobs. I get the same 20yd tracking results with soild lead conicals out of 50 and 54 cal Black Powder rifles that rest against the hide on the far side.

The .270 is easy to shoot and meat in the freezer is hard to argue about. Thanks for taking the time to share your hunt.

Great write up...glad you did so well on the hunt.

I have a few recovered partitions and the difference between a PT and BT is the BT loses a little more weight and expands to a wider frontal area. Both of these factors seem to help with quick kills IME.

Summed it up well. Good eating too! All good.