Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors Pre 64 identification

I know how to spot a pre 64 action, but I'm seeing some stocks, say on ebay, that say pre 64. Now, how do you tell if it is truly a pre 64 or post 64? Is there a stamped id or something?

Also, what is the difference with the inletting on pre 64 vs post?

Anything before 581,000 is pre-64 model 70. After looking for them they become easily identifiable by the checkering pattern (pointed) and the long claw extractor. Practice grasshopper, practice.

he is asking about the STOCK. There is no long extractor on the stock.

also, who has a good www that they could point me to for pinpointing the exact year of manufacture for the post 64's?

Google-fu is weak in this one.

http://www.savage99.com/winchester1894_dates.htm

Edit: Are we talking 70's or 94's here?

Post 64 guns have not had a very big collector following until recently. Rule's book has a chapter on the post 64 gun and the changes, but thats about the only resource I know of, besides following auctions and studying the differences.

Post 64 stocks were not hand checkered, except for the deluxe and the Mannlicher's I believe. I know there is a serial no. breadown by year, but I dont know where. There were never any stampings on the stock that would indicate the year.

Pre 64 stocks went through a series of changes that allow you to get a range on what year they were made. I would suggest you study photos of guns up for auction and become your own expert on the post 64 M70's. Post 64 guns are in there infancy as far as collector pieces.

Post 64's were impressed checkering not cut checkering. Also, the has a pointed forearm pattern that the posts did not.

The impressed checkering lasted only a few years. And there have been a number of different cut checking patterns over the years since then.

pre 64 model 70s, sorry about that.

Not quite, pre-64 Featherweights after the late 50s had pressed checkering..

is there a way other than handling them, that you can tell the diff between pressed and cut checkering? Is there any deffinitive way to tell the pre 64 from post? As far as I can tell, these folks selling the pre 64's could just be taking you to the cleaners.

1. Winchester used pressed checkering, hand cut checkering, and machine cut checkering. Pressed checkering is easy to spot because it looks just like it sounds, real cheap, and pressed into the wood. Pressing, also allowed them to put fancy little designs and swirls ito the checkering that would cost an arm and leg to have hand cut.

2. Hand cut checkering. You can tell it by looking real close at the borders and noticing the slight over runs and imperfections that man makes.

3. Machine checkering (started in 1960) was just that, checkering the stock using a machine instead of a man to cut the lines. This is identifiable first by the smaller area that was checkered and the area to be checkered had to be flat. So you wont see the checkering bending around corners like it does when you hand cut it. Since the machine could only cut on flat surfaces, the stocks shape was tweeked a little bit to give it a flatter area in the grip and the forestock.

Then there is the cut for the rear sigh boss on the standard model Pre 64. No cut on the feather weights, i think.

Sorry, but I don't think so. Winchester started using machine-cut checkering prior to 1964.

Not quite... Winchester did not go to impressed checkering until after 1963. I believe what you are referring to was a change made in '59 that implemented the use of an automatic checkering machine to cut the flat panels. The borders were still cut by hand. The panels got narrower as well. Irregardless, they were still "cut" checkered and not "impressed" type checkering as used on the post 64 guns.
Steve

so...in the end, there is no definitive way to determine if the wooden stock on a pre 64 is really a pre 64.

One thing I just thought of....would the inletting for the pre 64 model 70 give the stocks true 'era' identity away?

I was born post 64, lol, and I've been more archery than firearms, but is the inletting on post 64's different than pre?

also, is there a good 'History' of type book for Model 70's?

A pre 64 stock will never have impressed checkering. A pre 60 gun will not have machine cut.

Roger Rule wrote a book that details all changes pre64 and touches lightly on the post guns. Its titled The Riflemans Rifle.

I am also pretty sure that the post 64 checkering pattern was different than pre 64 guns both on the grip and the forend.

I assume you are talking about original factory stocks.

A picture would be worth a thousand descriptions. There are distinct differences between pre and post-'64 stocks. Early post-'64's had impressed checkering, cheekpieces, Monte Carlo combs, and a wide free floated barrel channel. Later post-'64 stocks had machine cut checkering. The combs on post-'64 stocks will be higher than pre-'64's.

Pre-'64's came in both standard and Featherweight versions. The earliest ones had straight combs with quite a bit of drop, and the later ones had Monte Carlo combs but no cheekpieces. Few pre-'64's had recoil pads and those that did had solid red pads until the last few years of production when a ventilated red pad was used.

Standard pre-'64 stocks had cuts for the rear sight boss and a hole for the forend screw. Featherweight stocks had no boss cut and no screw hole.

All pre-'64's had cut checkering (using very simple patterns) except for Target and Bull barreled guns and perhaps carbines (although I am not 100% sure of them) that were not checkered at all. Post-'64 checkering patterns were more complex than the pre-'64's.

There were deluxe grade rifles with stocks that had more elaborate features, but I believe that is beyond the scope of this question.

It's pretty easy to tell if you can post a picture.