I am brand-spanking new to this forum, and I just wanted to introduce myself. Everything I've read so far regarding horses and mules has been fascinating.
Although I've been riding horses my whole life, it was only last summer that I experienced my first backcountry horseback ride and camp out. I spent four days freezing my saddlebags off in the Uintas of Utah, and I loved every second of it. The packing bug bit me and held fast!
Although it was incredibly fun, the young men who took me were a tad bit unprepared. They're good friends of mine, and they claimed they were skilled and experienced campers. However, they each only started riding more frequently in the past year: �Boy A�s� mother purchased a few nice trail horses for her family, and�after years of unfulfilled cowboy dreams��Boy B� began leasing a fun Arab cross gelding that he gets along with famously. I wasn�t exactly necessary, as I�d never even been camping before (and certainly never with horses), but I had given them their first few lessons on horseback, and they trusted me to give them a hand in a tough spot. They wanted me along in case they encountered any equine-related problems they couldn�t handle. As I didn't have a horse of my own, I rode "Boy A's" mother's 13.1 hand Welsh/Quarter cross. She is 5'0", and I'm 5'7". Tug the palomino power pony and I looked a little silly, but he was the toughest of the lot of us. The saddle I rode in was a synthetic, and a little uncomfortable--but that was the least of my worries.
Because of some miscommunication between the two boys, neither one brought along the proper cooking equipment, nor enough water. They each managed to forget a few essential tools and toiletries as well. �Boy A� even forgot to bring the sleeping bag he'd promised to lend me, and I had to share his with him to keep from freezing. The cynical soul in me thinks he may have orchestrated that bit on purpose, but I suppose I'll never know. Then again, I'm a little plain-looking to start with, and my looks certainly did not improve any during the trip, so he came away with the bad end of that deal.
Anyway, after I got back from the mountains I searched for websites concerning backcountry horse rides, and how to prepare for them. I found the Backcountry Horseman site for my region, but I wanted to find a forum for discussion as well. I joined a popular horse training forum, and have languished there patiently for all these many months. However, the snarky, immature attacks and high levels of barn-witchiness have taken their toll (as well as the know-it-all-girls who have watched enough episodes of the �Heartland� television series to believe they �have a gift� with horses), so I began to search elsewhere for tips, insights and wisdom.
That search led me here! Thankfully, the members of this forum are filled to the brim with common sense. I�ve read every horse/mule related post so far, and each one was packed with information and entertainment. SaddleSore, you have me itching to ride a long-ear!
Are there any books out there that specifically cover the preparation of horses and mules for hunting and pack trips? �Boy B� has offered to take me hunting near his best friend�s ranch in Colorado. We can bring our own horses! Of course, that won�t be until I feel that we can properly train the horses for the rigors of a �real� hunting and pack trip, unlike our former fiasco of disorganization. How do I go about finding someone experienced to train with? There are plenty of show trainers around the Salt Lake area of Utah, but I want to find someone who can detail the practical elements of horse care in the mountains. The only people I can think of with practical knowledge are ranchers, and I just don�t think they�d have the time or interest to teach me the basics.
If you�ve read all this, you�re a saint. Thanks for any help you can give!
If you are not willing to go back every day and start over, you should not have started to begin with--because, you might have to start over a lot of days in a row before it carries over from one day to the next. BUCK BRANNAMAN
Welcome SM. That sounded like quite a trip, but I bet he forgot the sleeping bag on purpose . From your photo, you don't look "plain" to me,and I'm 69 yrs old.
One book you might get is Horse Packing in Pictures by Francis Davis. Another one is by Smoke Elzer.
It is always best to do the packing training at home and not on the side of a mountain. Using horses or mules in packing and hunting envolves a whole new set of problems.Bad things can and do happen and they happen fast in the back country or at the trial head,and many times medical attention is hours away.Saftey should be paramount in all cases and at least one person should be presnt that has some rudimentary knowlegde about horse packing and equine care/feeding the the back country. Do it long enough and you or a horse is going to suffer some type of injury. Just hope it is not too serious.
If you are going to get involved in this,you need good equipment,both in the saddle you ride and the sawbuck or deckers you pack. Don't settle for any of the panniers that fit over a riding saddle if you are serious about this.They will do in a pinch.
Your riding saddle needs to fit you and the horse. Riding miles in rugged steep mountainous terrain is much differnt than easy trail riding,and many times hunting,one needs to "bushwhack' where there is no trail.
One thing you might do if you have the free time is find an outfitter that will take you on as an apprentice for the season. There are also schools that you can attend and/or packing seminars.
Welcome. I don't have horses but I do my packing with llamas. Except for walking instead of riding, the packing part is about the same. Since you're new at it, here's a book I can recommend: "Packin' in on Mules and Horses" by Elser & Brown. You can get it used at Amazon for about $12. They cover about every aspect of dealing with horses in the back country.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
Welcome! Good to have a feminine face here. Am glad you made it thru your trip, the rest will be easier! Another "how to" book that I found worthwhile is "The Packer's Field Manual" by Bob Hoverson. Made some things easier for me to grasp. Enjoy the wild country! Cheers
"The more I am around people the better I like my dog." Mark Twain
Welcome, Sedona. You've already improved the scenery here by over 100%. Plain-looking!? Good grief, wait until you see some more photos of the guys on this forum. The classic packing books have already been recommended to you, but there are guys here who can answer just about any question you have.
I've read Elser and I agree with much but disagree with an item or two. I'm not saying who's right but all packers do a few things differently and they are never wrong... well, except for that Indian in British Columbia who couldn't pack for beans. Anyway SM, do a little reading, a lot of riding and when you're around the right people, pay attention. You'll have a lot of fun.
"Be sure you're right. Then go ahead." Fess Parker as Davy Crockett
I joined a popular horse training forum, and have languished there patiently for all these many months. However, the snarky, immature attacks and high levels of barn-witchiness have taken their toll (as well as the know-it-all-girls who have watched enough episodes of the �Heartland� television series to believe they �have a gift� with horses), so I began to search elsewhere for tips, insights and wisdom.
Makes me wonder if some of these nuts I run into around here belong to that forum, they would fit right in. You should like it here, good western oriented common sense horse knowledge from people who actually use their horses on this site. Another nice thing about this forum,{horseatv forum} there is no dumb question, no snide remarks, nobody want to hear of any one getting hurt.
Welcome to the campfire, pull up a stump, kick back an try not to set your hair on fire like me... i don't have any useful info but i always like to welcome new members. ps. ion't think your plain either, and i'm a seventeen y/o from orlando.
"8mm rem mag, reach out n' touch something"
"Those who say the .223 is weak probably have never heard of the "meat grinder".
SEMPER FI
Head practical joke coordinator of the turd-like people (aka the chitmonks)
Thank you all so much for the recommendations, and for welcoming me to your fire! I already feel at home.
SaddleSore, I am going to follow your advice and find someone to apprentice with first before I take on a project like training alone. You are absolutely right: safety is paramount. Thanks for the compliment, too! I�m sure you�ve had your share of �buckle-bunnies� as well, so it means a lot to me!
MTRancher�all the pictures I�ve seen are of handsome cowboys. Certainly a lot better than the boys I�ve met in the city..
DW, thanks for the song! I�m going to have to look up more of that man�s music. Love your horse, too!
George and Pat�there seem to be more �Horse Whisperers� around then riders. I�ve found that the very best horsemen I�ve ever met have never once claimed to be able to whisper to horses. They let the horse do all the �talking,� and then listen to him. I don�t think Tom Dorrance claimed he had some mystical connection�he could just listen better than anyone else. I�d much rather discuss horses with men and women who use them�for work, recreation, or what have you�than with those who want to make a name for themselves as a spiritual advisor or guru to the horse. Too �New Age� for me, and they charge more money than Ms. Cleo�
Thanks, Piero! I�ll try not to let my hair burn, nor anything else attached to me.
Thanks again, everyone. I have a lot of reading to do!
If you are not willing to go back every day and start over, you should not have started to begin with--because, you might have to start over a lot of days in a row before it carries over from one day to the next. BUCK BRANNAMAN
A bit off topic, but if any of you are interested in a story about a real war horse, I recommend WARRIOR - The Amazing Story of a Real War Horse by General Jack Seely. A first-class little hardcover book with quality paper, readable text, and superb illustrations, not to mention an amazing story.
Welcome to the forum. Feel free to ask as many questions as you like, while no one here has all the answers, together everyone can give a bit to make a whole lot of good information to help with most any problem or query you might have.
Hey, there, I am real new here myself, altho I know one of these fine folks a bit in person/ I am a mule ridin gal. There is a wealth of knowledge in this crew, and I have been treated well, without them really knowing me, so that says a lot! Welcome!
I ride mules, hunt every chance I can, and even take my husband with me!
Ironbender got it right. I used to run into Vic Lemmon his sidekick when I lived in Laramie. Of the three greatest trips of my life, all involved pack animals, especially mules. Joe Back was something else. Old ways are the best ways.
Smoky canvas, horse sweat, and the smell of pines. There is nothing like leading a pack string through great country like the Absaroka Range.
The only cure for life and death is to enjoy the interval. George Santayana
I prefer barefoot mules. They have brake pads on their feet instead of steel.
Problem being I ride mine enough that I wear down them barefoots. Last year,just in two hunting seasons, I had about 24 days in the field, and rode about 400 miles. Then I'd have an unrideable mule if I ran bare foot. A little tack of borium on the shoe helps that traction in the rock country and on ice.You sure do get the sparks flying in the dark with them on granite.
Around home here we have the decomposed granite and it will wear down feet like a rasp in short order.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
Can't run em barefoot in these hills.. I see some "newer" type farriers saying natural horseshoeing is the best thing going.
One was so adamant about it that I said lets go ride in the hills you "nartual" horse and I'll throw iron on mine and we'll go 15 miles. He shows up packing "boots" for his pony.
Because there needs to be an outlet for the unusable ones? Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, again....Spent some time cotching them with one of the premier horse cotchers, too.
Might be clueless, but having 'balls', never been a problem....
I do know that most mustangs are decendants of domestic horses that got loose or turned loose and very very few have any spanish blood in them.
I worked in the Nevada desert for years and there were several horse herds there.None of them looked like the fine bodied horses usualy depicted in the movies.
Something needs to be done with the thousands that are being kept in pens by the US Govt that are not adoptable.
The ones adopted out and trained by the inmates of the Canyon City CO State pen aere very sought after.Some of them are not too bad looking and turn out well.Too much of a challenge for me any more though.
Last edited by saddlesore; 03/29/12.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
I've owned mustangs, trained 'em (kinda, enough to ride 'em), and did like it for the most part. There's just too many, don't have a clue as how many tax $ in our state alone goes to gather and feed, way more than I'm comfortable with. Too many just aren't adoptable.
Sampled a horse roast, not bad, came from a domestic horse trying his best to be a mustang. Trespass fees and all that...
Seen huntsmans' rodeo pics? Quite sure his balls aren't painted on.
Last edited by weaselsRus; 03/29/12.
Eagles may soar, but a weasel never got sucked into a jet turbine!
I haven't read the replies yet so I hope I am not repeating much.
I joined our local Back Country Horseman chapter last year. They are a wealth of info and are good at getting guest speakers in for more info. Nice people too. They consist of ranchers, one modern day mtn man as far as I can tell and guys and gals who just enjoy horses. Almost all the rides are in the mtns. If the chapter down there is like that it may be worth looking into and then you can learn how to care for horses in the back country by doing.
There are a couple guys in the chapter who sold all there horses and ride mules exclusively. A cousin of mine just couldn't bring himself to ride a mule, but he would rather packed mules then horses. Must be something to them.
Relatives of mine have to deal with moving cattle through the Pryor mountain horse range. Used to not be a problem. Now permits, inspections, deadlines and an attitude that they are trespassing on trails that they have been using for better than 70 years.
The Meteetsee bunch have been selectively bred over the years. The old timers would shoot bad stallions and turn loose a good one. Some good ranch horses used to come out of that bunch.
My late friend, Lynne Taylor, managed the Pryor wild horse herd for over 20 years. I am currently working on a novel (my 6th) which has a working title of "Looking for Lynne." Because of this project I am revisiting the whole wild horse issue, talking to friends, relatives, and co-workers of Lynne's, and reading older books on the wild horse issue. Lynne was almost totally responsible for upgrading the quality of the Pryor herd by castrating all inferior studs. But, he was eventually forced from his job by BLM bureaucrats and Wild Horse Annie romanticists. The BLM and the wild horse advocates now use the Pryor herd as the role model for proof these horses descended from the original Spanish Barbs because of their dun, zebra dun, and grulla coloring. Ironically, the reason the Pryor horses are dominate in these colors is because Lynne cut every stud that wasn't colored. He knew a colored horse was more in demand in the adoption program, so he selectively bred for color by castrating plain-colored studs. Also, it is well known in that area that early breeders used to turn their horses out to winter in the Pryors, and some of these, including the early AQHA stallions Wagon N and Good are undoubtedly contributors to the Pryor gene pool. About 10 years ago I drew a bighorn sheep permit in the Pryors and I spent a lot of time in there. I saw lots and lots of horses while scouting and hunting and once ran into a young BLM horse biologist. By then, I was cleaned up so I didn't look like a hunter (this was a hot August scouting trip). I told her I was a journalist working on a story about bighorn sheep and needed to photograph some rams. She told me where I could find some and admitted the sheep had been forced out of the Pryors that summer by the horses. She then told me that if I came back in about two weeks the sheep would be in rut and easy to photograph. Mind you, this was the middle of August! This is just one example of what experts some government biologists can be. Bighorn sheep, of course, come into rut between the middle of November and the first of December. Her reasoning: she had seen a two-point mule deer buck running with some does, so evidently the mule deer rut was on and bighorn sheep rut about two weeks after mule deer, so...
saddlesore, Everyone has different experiences. I have run barefoot in the Sierra granite and Cascades andesite going 10-20 miles a day for over a week at a time with no problems. My mules used to have rocks in their turnout and were used to them.
Most commercial mule men use shoes if they are out for 5 days a week for the whole season.
Some people think they need shoes because they have never tried running mules without them. I was preparing to go on a trail ride in the Cascades a few years ago. Everyone sais "You had better shoe that mule before you go to Oregon." I had shoes put on the fronts. At the end of the trip the front feet and back feet showed about the same amount of wear.
The only cure for life and death is to enjoy the interval. George Santayana
Mustangs can be used for almost everything. They are tough, have good feet and are smart. They have a lot self preservation instinct like mules and are hard for some people to train. Mule people seem to take to them easier.
We have lots of mustangs in western Nevada and I see them more often than deer. There are plenty of broke ones making a living doing all kinds of things. The US Border Patrol just took some trained at the Carson City prison.
Last edited by ppine; 03/29/12.
The only cure for life and death is to enjoy the interval. George Santayana
Don't even get me started about biologists here that the Colorado DOW employees.
Not wild horses but feral donkeys. There are a lot of them in Nevada.Working about 60 miles North of Las vegas, we use to go to Pahrump on weekends just to get off the Test Site for awhile. At that time Pahrumph had two bars,a shabby motel, a store, two red light houses, (I did not frequent those) and a few mobile homes. A left over mining town that now is big destination RV resort.
There was quite a herd of feral donkeys and when the weather got cooler they liked to bed down on the pavement of the road that runs between 95 north and Pahrump.Seems they always liked a certain spot just over the brow of a hill.
Cars would come barreling over that hill and hit one of those donkeys and it sure made a mess of the vehicle.We use to get passes to drive Govt vehicles off site and one of the younger lads hit a donkey and totaled the black and white. That ended the passes and we then had to ride a bus back and forth between Las Vegas and the Test Site.
You can still see a lot of those feral donkeys if you are driving 95 north between the malpias.
Although it is desert, just out side of Death Valley.I never saw a skinny feral horse or donkey. They have to walk a long ways between bunches of grass and water and the donkeys are hard on the land as they eat mostanything besides cactus.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
I've not started or trained a mustang, but I doubt there is a great deal of difference between mustangs and the ranch horses I grew up with and that I bred for years, because horses in my area have traditionally run in the hills. The colts are not imprinted. They are not even touched until weaning and in some cases not until they are yearlings. In other words, they have a similar environmental conditioning as the (so-called) mustangs. They develop good feet and hardiness because they run in rough country and travel miles and miles day foraging and going to water. That's not taking anything away from mustangs, I'm just saying their environmental conditions are no different that what most horses were raised in years ago. Some of us still raise horses this way though I am, for now, out of the breeding business. I have seen plenty of range mares (AQHA, Appendix, Jockey Club or other) that are actually wilder than the Pryor Mountain wild horses. When I was scouting for sheep I encountered wild horses daily. When coming upon young stallions running in small bachelor groups you almost had to poke them in the butt with your rifle to get them out of your way. Those horses are so studied and scrutinized by biologists, tourists, and bureaucrats that they are almost dog-gentle. The year I scouted for sheep was a drought year. The over-population of horses, as I mentioned before, had forced the Bighorn Sheep out of the Pryors. I saw colts so thin and poor that if I'd owned them I'd put them down. I saw colts so thin they could hardly travel and their mamas weren't much better. Now, in no way am I against imprinting colts (though one horse trainer friend of mine doesn't like imprinting at all). My point at top is that its not practical for everyone, and colts that run in the hills gain traits specific to those conditions.
don't have a clue as how many tax $ in our state alone goes to gather and feed, way more than I'm comfortable with
I was shooting the breeze with a guy that worked for the BLM at the Equine Affaire in Pomona California. He said that a tractor trailer load of hay was delivered daily to feed the horses at one of the holding sites. Tat's 365 Tractor trailer loads of hay per year for ONE holding site. How many holding areas are there?
Life is but the memories we've created.....Sully Erna
I'm with the put them in a can vote. Closing the slaughter houses has been the ruiniation of the horse in the USA. I also think the guy out casturating was on the right track.
Mustangs are no different than any other horse thats run wild till they're 5 or 6. In fact, after rounding up a herd of mustangs, shaking a bucket of grain will seperate the ones that got turned out from the ones bred in the wild, and you'll see they're not all "wild mustangs".
Be Polite , Be Professional , but have a plan to kill everybody you meet -General James Mattis United States Marine Corps
I'm a bit sensitive to this issue my wife worked in the Priors collecting data for the BLM. At one time she knew every stud there by name. She knew many of the others as well. It is a shame what the damn gubmint and liberals have done.
True Mustangs are NOT like any other horse. I dare any of ya to go at a wild mustang with the same approach you do an un-broke domesticated horse. Things will get western in a hurry.
Easy to tell a wild none from not.. check the brand. I can't tell you how many people think they have a "wild mustang" however, they have no neck brand... but hey I wasn't about to ruin their day.
True that many of the herds have domesticated horses running with them. Very true in the herd east of Cody.
We've trained several true Mustangs and have owned several and still do own some.
If I were given a choice I'd no doubt run Mustangs and Mules.
2 of my damn best horses were and are Kate and Daisy. Both wild mustangs.
Here's a buddy of mine on Kate (top black) He weighs 220# add the rest of the stuff and well she's got a load on her. She never knew quit..anything ever. Damn good mare. I miss her.
Here's Daisy. One of the toughest go get em show me where and I'll get you there mountain pounding horses we've ever had. She on loan right now to Dad in wyo.
Speaking of Mustangs, My horse, and the one I am buying from my nephew are both Nokota's. they are the "wild" horses of the North Dakota badlands(same kind of stories as mustangs. some say they are a remnant of sitting bulls band of horses with domestics cut in with them). They definitely have a different temperament and mind set than domestic horses. Not being far removed from stock that ran wild. My horse is only 14.3. I'm not a big guy at 150lbs, but riding up and around the hills where I live she has about as much energy at the end of the day as she had when we started. None of our domestic breeds seem to be able to keep up with her.
Life is but the memories we've created.....Sully Erna
I've no doubt that many of these mustangs are smart and tough. But, I don't think you can put all "domestic" horses in the same pot. When the Kramer ranch was running upwards of 3000 horses and when Benny Binion was running close to 1000, those horses weren't that much different from mustangs except bigger and better-bred. Those horses had a lot of good blood in them, but it was hot blood, and they were not handled or pampered in any way. Things would not only get western quick if you picked on them but you had a whole lot more horse under you when it happened. The Jet Deck, Hard Twist, and Remount blood in those horses produced big, athletic horses with a world of heart. Granted, not many of that type left around, let alone, the conditions they were run in. With cows bring $2000 apiece it's hard to justify running a $500 mare. Some of that blood is still around but found in smaller programs, and those programs are diminishing quickly. Concordi is right at laying the blame on the government and liberals for the mustang problem. Although, some of my conservate brethren are at fault, too. There were abuses of mustangs during the 70s and early 80s that gave ammunition to the liberals to go to the other extreme. I, personally, don't have any problems with having some wild horses protected and no problems with adopting them out, but the lack of objectivity is unsettling. You will notice that recent books and films about mustangs paint this romantic picture of wild horses running free with the wind (An early wild horse celebrity was actually a stallion named "Wildfire." No connection, I don't think, to the dreadful Michael Martin Murphy song of the same title.) I have a friend who worked for years for the BLM in California where most of his job was roping burros and dragging them off airstrips. He was also involved with wild horses there, too, and he adopted a buckskin and brought him back with him after he'd had all of California that he could take. One year Lynne, myself and others trailed a bunch of horses from the Newman ranch north of Ingomar to Miles City. It was a two-day trail. Each morning it took my friend about 45 minutes to get on that buckskin. He was well-mounted once he was on, but it was an entertaining 45 minutes. The main problem here is there are simply too many horses, period. Too many mustangs, too many Quarter Horses, too many TBs, too many Paints, too many Morgans...etc... Too many breeders of all kinds of horses and society unwilling to look at and deal with this unpleasant problem. The infusion of other stock into wild horse ranges may or may not be taking place today. I have one friend who says it is. He claims people with unwanted horses are taking them to wild horse ranges and just turning them loose. But, it was certainly a factor between 1920 and 1940, especially when homesteaders went broke and simply left their mortgaged horses in the hills. There were cowboys employed back then by the banks to gather and sell those horses. How many of those found their way to isolated areas and became known as "mustangs?"
I don't think you can put all "domestic" horses in the same pot
Mtrancher. I agree. I was referring to the domestic breeds we have here at the farm and horses local to me. We have a good assortment in my area of Paint's, QH, appendix QH, Apps. No Arabs. It sounded like a broad statement but I was just referring to the local stock.
Life is but the memories we've created.....Sully Erna
JD, HT and Remount woulda been some well... quit the earth quick types eh?
Ahhh the ole strawberry roan comes to mind ;-)
Many of the BLM horses we took on were given to us by owners caught up in the romance of 'em. Then the hard lesson of reality set in that these Mustangs arn't for everyone. We typically got em after a trainer (or 2) couldn't figure em out...
Coca thats a good looking horse. I'd almost be shes from stock that got turned out somewhere along the line. For me the methods were the same. I agree whole heartdly with Mt. that the big difference is one's better bred. A horse thats never been handled for its first 5 years is a wild horse whether it comes with a pedigree or not. Its really hard to maket a good horse from one that hasn't been started before it's 5 or 6. It is too hard to get ahold of the mind of a older horse. A babys mind, no matter where they're bred, is much easier to get a hold of. I start training my babies right after momma cuts them off. By the time they're riding age they're broke, just not ridden. Don't get me wrong I like having wild horses. I also like having well bred horses, but theres plenty of both that belong in a can and shutting that industry down has had a very bad affect on the horse. Not all wild horses are branded. I know of at least one heard that aren't branded, and from the BLM guys I've talked to I don't have a clue about them.
Be Polite , Be Professional , but have a plan to kill everybody you meet -General James Mattis United States Marine Corps
I figure those broom tails are about like any horse, there are good ones and bad ones. Mostly we only hear about the good ones. However,I bet there are a lot more in the holding pens that are not adoptable for several reasons than there have been adopted.Every one that is adopted does not come out like Trigger, but I have no doubt that there are many that make darn fine mounts.
I think any that go thru an adoption facility are branded as that is your idnetification for ownership and there are certain things that must be done for one to keep one.I don't think you get ownership the day you adoopt them.I might be wrong there,but that is what I was told when I visited the adoption pens in CanyonCity,CO.
It's pretty much the same with any horse breed or mule. A fellow gets to thinking there isn't anything better than the one he has,but that one or a dozen is a small sampling of the total.
The worse of those people are the ones who claim they would never ride a mule as that is a down grade from a horse and the mule folks that say they won't ride a horse.
Being a mule man and I realy like mules, I run into people all the time that claim the mule is superior in all aspects when compared to a horse, but in fact, there are horses that are bred to do certain jobs better than a mule and mules that are bred to do certain jobs better than a horse. Fact is there are horses bred to do certain jobs better than other horse breeds and the same with mules. The problem with the wild horses (I won't call them mustangs because most aren't) is that one has no idea of that back ground.After 6 months of training, you might find it is a darn good horse, or might just find out that it is a jughead. At least with a horse that you know it's back ground, papered or grade, you can resonably expect what you will end up with. Not true in all cases,but there is an edge there. I have done the same with mules.I don't bred Arabs, warm bloods or hot bloods for mules, I have stuck with 1/4 horses, walkers, fox trotters and halflingers. If I wanted drafty animal,I would go with belgiums or percherons.Belgiums preferably.
I don't particularly like horses, but they are needed to make mules and I enjoy looking at good horse flesh. If I have to chose between walking and riding a horse,you can bet I am climbing aboard.
All these differnt equines is what keeps the equine business going,but the closing of slaughter houses did more to ruin the business than any other act, except maybe the Wild horse/Burro Protcction Act. Hopefully we will see these slaugter houses reopen soon.
JMHO
Last edited by saddlesore; 03/29/12.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
I am probably being too wordy simply because this plays directly into the theme of the book I am presently writing. But, the old question of evil -- is it nature or nurture? Liberal humans want to say that poverty and lack of education is the cause of all crime (generally speaking.) Horse clinician types and devotees of natural horsemanship sometimes say there is no such thing as a bad horse that it is all in the manner of the breaking. I would be the first to say that the way I was taught and raised, while far from inhumane, was not the best. Just the same, there will always be, in my opinion, those horses that are predisposed to their type of evil. Perhaps it is breeding, perhaps it is something organic in their mind, but they simply do not have a willingness to serve. When we create absolutes about anything, whether we say "all mustangs are bad" or "no horse is bad if it is started correctly" we are on shaky ground. This is the proverbial meeting "of the horse that couldn't be rode and the cowboy who couldn't be throwed."
I have seen that pohto before,but not on here.Just can't remember where.Mine are the same way.
A lot of cantankerous mules and horses can be trained to make useful animals, but a lot of those types can't always be trusted.
As for patience, right now I'm working with my 12 yr old halflinger mule that has always been buggery about bicycles. This mule I bred to one of my mares and raised it since birth. I have let it go, but very year we meet more and more bicycles on the trails in the hills. Can't get rid of them so I figured I best fix the problem.It's been a week now, working every day and I can now pony her around with a three ft lead rope while I ride the bicycle. I can't make more than two loops around the 100x200 ft arena without getting out of breath though.She still snorts at the bike when I lead her up to it and tries to hide behind me. Now I need to get a rider that will ride around on the bike as I sit in the saddle.If I turn her loose she wil go to the opposite end of the arena and watch me.It will come though.Mules will teach anyone a lot about patience and a sense of humor.
As for people turning horses loose on openrange, I don't doubt it.Last year when hay got scarce and went up in price, folks were finding horses in thier pastures that weren't there the night before. I heard it was a lot worse in Texas.
Last edited by saddlesore; 03/29/12.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
saddlesore, Maybe you can put bicycles around her corral. Get some kids to ride around her turnout. Lots of exposure to reduce the reaction. I used to ride with a rough stock guy and his motto was "show them something new every time you get on." Hanggliders, semis, bears, skateboards, minature donkeys, etc.
Mule people on this forum have probably all had the experience where somebody says that "my jackass will upset their horses." Maybe people need to expose their horses to more things to make them more useful.
The only cure for life and death is to enjoy the interval. George Santayana
I knew it. That black mare is bout to come unhinged and the mule is charging those kids....
Time. Your Dad was right, if you can spend the time on them you can get most of them, but the babies are so much easier than an older horse thats set in their ways. jmo.
saddlesore i think horses (mules?) don't like bicycles because they can't hear much when they're coming; thats all I've been able to figure out.
Be Polite , Be Professional , but have a plan to kill everybody you meet -General James Mattis United States Marine Corps
I use to ride a mare that was strung a little tight by a pen full of emus and there was one that never failed to run down to right by where we had to walk by. Also got buzzed by an ultr light plane on that same mare. She could get snakes running out her ears in the best of times. My neighbor had emus, and they were just kind of mean.
Be Polite , Be Professional , but have a plan to kill everybody you meet -General James Mattis United States Marine Corps
Ppine. I actually had a bicycle tied up on the side of her stall for a year.Every time I would go in, I would spin the tires a little.She would come in to eat after a few days, but didn't like the movement. Right now I set the bicycle right outside her stall gate.
Yesterday I had the bike upside down and with her right there,I turned the tires.She wasn't too bad, even nosed the tire when it was turning. She still buggery if it falls over though.
The bicylces coming up from behind with no noise do spook her,but even the ones coming from the front are not the best.If I take her about 20 ft off the trail she is ok, Seems her comfort zone was about 20 ft.
I'm afarid to ask one of the neighbor kids to ride around as anything cold happen and I sure would feel bad if one got hurt.
She is ok with motorcycles,Atv's.Even had loose llama close by a trail we had to ride in and out passing it.As long as it didn't get real close she was OK.
This mule never misses a beat in the hills, but she sure is no town mule. In the past,when I showed mules etc. my mules were more well rounded,but now not so much as I don't get into those places much.This one will follow me anywhere as long as I lead, but she never has had much in way of leadership qualities.
This bicycle problem and sheep are about the only things that really set her off.I have no doubt that I can fix the bicycle problem,I have just been lax about it,but I'm not buying any sheep for her that's for sure
Last edited by saddlesore; 03/30/12.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
I bought a mule last spring for my mid life crisis.All my friends were getting harleys I wanted a mule.Never had any expiriance with horses or mules.Third time I was on him he spooked at an old elk antler in the field and put on a show for me,he didn't dump me and I got him past the darn thing.I just couldn't believe an antler would make him spook.
"You gotta accomplish something every day. When you go to bed at night ask yourself what you did today, there better be something on the list" Robin Carlson
Mules take a lot more desentizing than horses. Every new thing that they encounter needs explaining to them.
Once they get that all done,they get pretty stable ,but it sure takes awhile.You can ride them down a road or trail 100 times and the 101st time,there maybe something different or on the trail that they will spook at.
You don't want to force them or try to spur them thru these obstacles as you will only make them worse. A horse you can bully thru such a situation. A mule you are going to put on the fight,and the human is going to lose everytime.
This is one reason you need to get the mule bonded to you and trust you.If they trust you, you can work them up to these obstacles. If they don't trust you they are going to depend on thier own mind to get away from it.
One big problem is a guy will buy a mule and then commence to ride it right away and then find out it won't mind hin like the last owner said it would. These same guys figure a mule is just a horse with long ears. They try to treat them the same way and train them the same way.Just can't be done.
Mules need time to settle in and get use to the new owner.It might take a month,it might take 6 months and sometimes the owner and mule will never match up. If you ever borrowed a buddy's dog and tried to have them work for you,you will get the idea.That is why sending a mule to a trainer for 30-60 days gets little results.
Most mules are not runners and will spin aorund and then back up a littel and then face the problem.Some will flat out spin and run.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
Watched an old training tape years back - working on a mule with "attitude". This guy tied all 4 feet to his halter right under the chin and threw a tarp over him.
Went in for coffee and lunch and came out about an hour later and freed the mule. After that they were best friends...
can't remember the name of the trainer.....tape was probably made when vcr's were the new thing.
Probably Max Harsha. It works sometimes depending on the why. A lot of those types of mules ypu could make workers out of them,but you's best keep you eye on them and not turn you back too close to them.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
when he spoted the antler he bucked a little then spun and bolted I got him turned and tried again he did it again on the third try he went past.He's a pretty easy going mule which is why I bought him.I ain't sure I want to take him out hunting just yet but riding trails close by right now anyway
"You gotta accomplish something every day. When you go to bed at night ask yourself what you did today, there better be something on the list" Robin Carlson
Can't wait to hear what he does when he sees antlers with an animal attached to the bottom. I had one mule that would take off chasing deer or elk when he saw them instead of running away. Darn thing almost killed me running thru the timber.
Last edited by saddlesore; 04/11/12.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
oh man thats a scarey thought.Here I been wondering if he'll act up worse if we pass another shed,I never thought about a live buck or bull.Deer don't seem to scare him out in the pasture I'm watching him right now and there's deer all around him.But chances are it'll be a different story when I'm on his back,oh well only one way to find out hey
"You gotta accomplish something every day. When you go to bed at night ask yourself what you did today, there better be something on the list" Robin Carlson
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. From your photo, you don't look "plain" to me,and I'm 69 yrs old. 
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You should like it here, good western oriented common sense horse knowledge from people who actually use their horses on this site. Another nice thing about this forum,{horse
atv forum} there is no dumb question, no snide remarks, nobody want to hear of any one getting hurt.
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