Home Forums Gear Horses and ATV's New "horse fan" here!

saddlesore,
Everyone has different experiences. I have run barefoot in the Sierra granite and Cascades andesite going 10-20 miles a day for over a week at a time with no problems. My mules used to have rocks in their turnout and were used to them.

Most commercial mule men use shoes if they are out for 5 days a week for the whole season.

Some people think they need shoes because they have never tried running mules without them. I was preparing to go on a trail ride in the Cascades a few years ago. Everyone sais "You had better shoe that mule before you go to Oregon." I had shoes put on the fronts. At the end of the trip the front feet and back feet showed about the same amount of wear.

Mustangs can be used for almost everything. They are tough, have good feet and are smart. They have a lot self preservation instinct like mules and are hard for some people to train. Mule people seem to take to them easier.

We have lots of mustangs in western Nevada and I see them more often than deer. There are plenty of broke ones making a living doing all kinds of things. The US Border Patrol just took some trained at the Carson City prison.

Don't even get me started about biologists here that the Colorado DOW employees.

Not wild horses but feral donkeys. There are a lot of them in Nevada.Working about 60 miles North of Las vegas, we use to go to Pahrump on weekends just to get off the Test Site for awhile. At that time Pahrumph had two bars,a shabby motel, a store, two red light houses, (I did not frequent those) and a few mobile homes. A left over mining town that now is big destination RV resort.

There was quite a herd of feral donkeys and when the weather got cooler they liked to bed down on the pavement of the road that runs between 95 north and Pahrump.Seems they always liked a certain spot just over the brow of a hill.

Cars would come barreling over that hill and hit one of those donkeys and it sure made a mess of the vehicle.We use to get passes to drive Govt vehicles off site and one of the younger lads hit a donkey and totaled the black and white. That ended the passes and we then had to ride a bus back and forth between Las Vegas and the Test Site.

You can still see a lot of those feral donkeys if you are driving 95 north between the malpias.

Although it is desert, just out side of Death Valley.I never saw a skinny feral horse or donkey. They have to walk a long ways between bunches of grass and water and the donkeys are hard on the land as they eat mostanything besides cactus.

I've not started or trained a mustang, but I doubt there is a great deal of difference between mustangs and the ranch horses I grew up with and that I bred for years, because horses in my area have traditionally run in the hills. The colts are not imprinted. They are not even touched until weaning and in some cases not until they are yearlings. In other words, they have a similar environmental conditioning as the (so-called) mustangs. They develop good feet and hardiness because they run in rough country and travel miles and miles day foraging and going to water. That's not taking anything away from mustangs, I'm just saying their environmental conditions are no different that what most horses were raised in years ago. Some of us still raise horses this way though I am, for now, out of the breeding business.
I have seen plenty of range mares (AQHA, Appendix, Jockey Club or other) that are actually wilder than the Pryor Mountain wild horses. When I was scouting for sheep I encountered wild horses daily. When coming upon young stallions running in small bachelor groups you almost had to poke them in the butt with your rifle to get them out of your way. Those horses are so studied and scrutinized by biologists, tourists, and bureaucrats that they are almost dog-gentle.
The year I scouted for sheep was a drought year. The over-population of horses, as I mentioned before, had forced the Bighorn Sheep out of the Pryors. I saw colts so thin and poor that if I'd owned them I'd put them down. I saw colts so thin they could hardly travel and their mamas weren't much better.
Now, in no way am I against imprinting colts (though one horse trainer friend of mine doesn't like imprinting at all). My point at top is that its not practical for everyone, and colts that run in the hills gain traits specific to those conditions.

I was shooting the breeze with a guy that worked for the BLM at the Equine Affaire in Pomona California. He said that a tractor trailer load of hay was delivered daily to feed the horses at one of the holding sites. Tat's 365 Tractor trailer loads of hay per year for ONE holding site. How many holding areas are there?

I'm with the put them in a can vote. Closing the slaughter houses has been the ruiniation of the horse in the USA. I also think the guy out casturating was on the right track.

Mustangs are no different than any other horse thats run wild till they're 5 or 6. In fact, after rounding up a herd of mustangs, shaking a bucket of grain will seperate the ones that got turned out from the ones bred in the wild, and you'll see they're not all "wild mustangs".

I'm a bit sensitive to this issue my wife worked in the Priors collecting data for the BLM. At one time she knew every stud there by name. She knew many of the others as well.
It is a shame what the damn gubmint and liberals have done.

True Mustangs are NOT like any other horse. I dare any of ya to go at a wild mustang with the same approach you do an un-broke domesticated horse. Things will get western in a hurry.

Easy to tell a wild none from not.. check the brand. I can't tell you how many people think they have a "wild mustang" however, they have no neck brand... but hey I wasn't about to ruin their day.

True that many of the herds have domesticated horses running with them. Very true in the herd east of Cody.

We've trained several true Mustangs and have owned several and still do own some.

If I were given a choice I'd no doubt run Mustangs and Mules.

2 of my damn best horses were and are Kate and Daisy. Both wild mustangs.

Here's a buddy of mine on Kate (top black) He weighs 220# add the rest of the stuff and well she's got a load on her. She never knew quit..anything ever. Damn good mare. I miss her.




Here's Daisy. One of the toughest go get em show me where and I'll get you there mountain pounding horses we've ever had. She on loan right now to Dad in wyo.

Great pics.

Speaking of Mustangs, My horse, and the one I am buying from my nephew are both Nokota's. they are the "wild" horses of the North Dakota badlands(same kind of stories as mustangs. some say they are a remnant of sitting bulls band of horses with domestics cut in with them). They definitely have a different temperament and mind set than domestic horses. Not being far removed from stock that ran wild. My horse is only 14.3. I'm not a big guy at 150lbs, but riding up and around the hills where I live she has about as much energy at the end of the day as she had when we started. None of our domestic breeds seem to be able to keep up with her.

I've no doubt that many of these mustangs are smart and tough. But, I don't think you can put all "domestic" horses in the same pot. When the Kramer ranch was running upwards of 3000 horses and when Benny Binion was running close to 1000, those horses weren't that much different from mustangs except bigger and better-bred. Those horses had a lot of good blood in them, but it was hot blood, and they were not handled or pampered in any way. Things would not only get western quick if you picked on them but you had a whole lot more horse under you when it happened. The Jet Deck, Hard Twist, and Remount blood in those horses produced big, athletic horses with a world of heart. Granted, not many of that type left around, let alone, the conditions they were run in. With cows bring $2000 apiece it's hard to justify running a $500 mare. Some of that blood is still around but found in smaller programs, and those programs are diminishing quickly.
Concordi is right at laying the blame on the government and liberals for the mustang problem. Although, some of my conservate brethren are at fault, too. There were abuses of mustangs during the 70s and early 80s that gave ammunition to the liberals to go to the other extreme.
I, personally, don't have any problems with having some wild horses protected and no problems with adopting them out, but the lack of objectivity is unsettling. You will notice that recent books and films about mustangs paint this romantic picture of wild horses running free with the wind (An early wild horse celebrity was actually a stallion named "Wildfire." No connection, I don't think, to the dreadful Michael Martin Murphy song of the same title.)
I have a friend who worked for years for the BLM in California where most of his job was roping burros and dragging them off airstrips. He was also involved with wild horses there, too, and he adopted a buckskin and brought him back with him after he'd had all of California that he could take. One year Lynne, myself and others trailed a bunch of horses from the Newman ranch north of Ingomar to Miles City. It was a two-day trail. Each morning it took my friend about 45 minutes to get on that buckskin. He was well-mounted once he was on, but it was an entertaining 45 minutes.
The main problem here is there are simply too many horses, period. Too many mustangs, too many Quarter Horses, too many TBs, too many Paints, too many Morgans...etc... Too many breeders of all kinds of horses and society unwilling to look at and deal with this unpleasant problem.
The infusion of other stock into wild horse ranges may or may not be taking place today. I have one friend who says it is. He claims people with unwanted horses are taking them to wild horse ranges and just turning them loose. But, it was certainly a factor between 1920 and 1940, especially when homesteaders went broke and simply left their mortgaged horses in the hills. There were cowboys employed back then by the banks to gather and sell those horses. How many of those found their way to isolated areas and became known as "mustangs?"

Mtrancher. I agree. I was referring to the domestic breeds we have here at the farm and horses local to me.
We have a good assortment in my area of Paint's, QH, appendix QH, Apps. No Arabs. It sounded like a broad statement but I was just referring to the local stock.

Can't argue with that... MT rancher

JD, HT and Remount woulda been some well... quit the earth quick types eh?

Ahhh the ole strawberry roan comes to mind ;-)

Many of the BLM horses we took on were given to us by owners caught up in the romance of 'em. Then the hard lesson of reality set in that these Mustangs arn't for everyone. We typically got em after a trainer (or 2) couldn't figure em out...

Coca thats a good looking horse. I'd almost be shes from stock that got turned out somewhere along the line.
For me the methods were the same. I agree whole heartdly with Mt. that the big difference is one's better bred. A horse thats never been handled for its first 5 years is a wild horse whether it comes with a pedigree or not. Its really hard to maket a good horse from one that hasn't been started before it's 5 or 6. It is too hard to get ahold of the mind of a older horse. A babys mind, no matter where they're bred, is much easier to get a hold of. I start training my babies right after momma cuts them off. By the time they're riding age they're broke, just not ridden.
Don't get me wrong I like having wild horses. I also like having well bred horses, but theres plenty of both that belong in a can and shutting that industry down has had a very bad affect on the horse. Not all wild horses are branded. I know of at least one heard that aren't branded, and from the BLM guys I've talked to I don't have a clue about them.

RA .. I'd agree with the 5 or 6 yr old thing but..

(there's always a but )

Here's one that was started at 6 yrs old...






truth be told we have had quite a few started at 5-7 that are just plum great!

One thing you'll hear me preach over and over again. Mostly cause my wife has said it 10,000 times...

it is all in how you start with your ground work and manners!

I figure those broom tails are about like any horse, there are good ones and bad ones. Mostly we only hear about the good ones. However,I bet there are a lot more in the holding pens that are not adoptable for several reasons than there have been adopted.Every one that is adopted does not come out like Trigger, but I have no doubt that there are many that make darn fine mounts.

I think any that go thru an adoption facility are branded as that is your idnetification for ownership and there are certain things that must be done for one to keep one.I don't think you get ownership the day you adoopt them.I might be wrong there,but that is what I was told when I visited the adoption pens in CanyonCity,CO.

It's pretty much the same with any horse breed or mule. A fellow gets to thinking there isn't anything better than the one he has,but that one or a dozen is a small sampling of the total.

The worse of those people are the ones who claim they would never ride a mule as that is a down grade from a horse and the mule folks that say they won't ride a horse.

Being a mule man and I realy like mules, I run into people all the time that claim the mule is superior in all aspects when compared to a horse, but in fact, there are horses that are bred to do certain jobs better than a mule and mules that are bred to do certain jobs better than a horse. Fact is there are horses bred to do certain jobs better than other horse breeds and the same with mules. The problem with the wild horses (I won't call them mustangs because most aren't) is that one has no idea of that back ground.After 6 months of training, you might find it is a darn good horse, or might just find out that it is a jughead. At least with a horse that you know it's back ground, papered or grade, you can resonably expect what you will end up with. Not true in all cases,but there is an edge there. I have done the same with mules.I don't bred Arabs, warm bloods or hot bloods for mules, I have stuck with 1/4 horses, walkers, fox trotters and halflingers. If I wanted drafty animal,I would go with belgiums or percherons.Belgiums preferably.

I don't particularly like horses, but they are needed to make mules and I enjoy looking at good horse flesh. If I have to chose between walking and riding a horse,you can bet I am climbing aboard.

All these differnt equines is what keeps the equine business going,but the closing of slaughter houses did more to ruin the business than any other act, except maybe the Wild horse/Burro Protcction Act. Hopefully we will see these slaugter houses reopen soon.

JMHO

All mules are just plum crazy and mean...

I am probably being too wordy simply because this plays directly into the theme of the book I am presently writing. But, the old question of evil -- is it nature or nurture? Liberal humans want to say that poverty and lack of education is the cause of all crime (generally speaking.) Horse clinician types and devotees of natural horsemanship sometimes say there is no such thing as a bad horse that it is all in the manner of the breaking. I would be the first to say that the way I was taught and raised, while far from inhumane, was not the best. Just the same, there will always be, in my opinion, those horses that are predisposed to their type of evil. Perhaps it is breeding, perhaps it is something organic in their mind, but they simply do not have a willingness to serve. When we create absolutes about anything, whether we say "all mustangs are bad" or "no horse is bad if it is started correctly" we are on shaky ground. This is the proverbial meeting "of the horse that couldn't be rode and the cowboy who couldn't be throwed."

I'll tip my hat a bit..

My mentor (Dad basically) has been training horses for 58 years.

He'll tell you there are only a handful that couldn't be trained/broke...

Trouble with people these days is patience. They want things done in a hurry. It's hard to get a good handle on any Pony when you hurry.

Vaqueros will tell ya it take years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMBiMO0yI4M

They used to say. "There is always tomorrow"

I have seen that pohto before,but not on here.Just can't remember where.Mine are the same way.

A lot of cantankerous mules and horses can be trained to make useful animals, but a lot of those types can't always be trusted.

As for patience, right now I'm working with my 12 yr old halflinger mule that has always been buggery about bicycles. This mule I bred to one of my mares and raised it since birth. I have let it go, but very year we meet more and more bicycles on the trails in the hills. Can't get rid of them so I figured I best fix the problem.It's been a week now, working every day and I can now pony her around with a three ft lead rope while I ride the bicycle. I can't make more than two loops around the 100x200 ft arena without getting out of breath though.She still snorts at the bike when I lead her up to it and tries to hide behind me. Now I need to get a rider that will ride around on the bike as I sit in the saddle.If I turn her loose she wil go to the opposite end of the arena and watch me.It will come though.Mules will teach anyone a lot about patience and a sense of humor.

As for people turning horses loose on openrange, I don't doubt it.Last year when hay got scarce and went up in price, folks were finding horses in thier pastures that weren't there the night before. I heard it was a lot worse in Texas.