Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Gunsmithing Tru Oil, how much?

I'm placing an order and wish to order once. Brownells largest bottle is eight ounces. I'm planning on doing a Sako 75 stock. will the 8oz bottle be sufficient for multiple coats?

I'm thinking between 5-8 coats.

Thanks-

Wade

The 3 oz is plenty.

+1

IMHO, regardless of how much you use, always get the 3 oz. bottle. You want to be always opening a fresh one.

DF

Fresh bottle makes sense. Perhaps I'll order two of the smaller bottles as I may want to do a second stock project if all goes well with the first.

While on the subject, I've been looking French Red as a filler. What difference can I expect between the clear and walnut filler before applying the oil?

I wish to get the best finish possible.

Thanks

Wade

Early on, I tried those fillers. Don't use them now.

Got this from a master stock maker. Take Custom Pro Oil from Brownells. After wood prep, put on a heavy coat and let dry overnight. Put on another Pro Oil coat and use 400 wet or dry paper cut into small pieces. With the index finger, work with circular motions until a slurry is formed. You'll know because it gets slimy feeling. Wipe off across grain with a blue shop towel. This slurry of Oil and sanded residue becomes your filler.

Let dry overnight then start putting on Tru Oil coats until the grain is filled, usually 10-15 coats. Use 4-0 steel wool between Tru Oil coats. When the grain is filled, apply a Pro Oil coat, then lightly wipe off excess with a blue shop towel, single thickness. Let dry and you have a professional finish with a sheen. It's tougher than a straight Tru Oil finish. People pay thousands of dollars for this guy to do his thing on fine guns and this is his process. Of course, he has technique that can't be keyboarded onto a screen...

DF

I appreciate the advice DF. I'll look into this method. I read about this slurry method using Tru Oil as well.

Wade

I was taught to use Tru-oil in gunsmithing school, however I find Pro Custom Oil much easier to use and the results are superior to Tru-oil.

i was by a friends house this week that builds custom bench muzzleloaders and has gone to using the same stuff. his reason for stopping using regular tru-oil was that it gets real hard and if you run a screw into the wood it will break around the screw head. i may have to try it on my next project.

I've tried the slurry method with Tru-Oil. It sets up too fast and gets too thick too quick. Pro-Oil is the way to go with the slurry technique. The only thing I use Tru Oil for is as a grain filler. It dries faster than Pro Oil and seems better for hand rubbing into the grain. The last coat with Pro Oil, applied as I suggested, leaves a wonderful sheen that doesn't need to be touched. Tru Oil dries too shiny and needs to be worked down to a sheen. And, Pro Oil is harder and tougher than Tru Oil. It wears better and is easy to repair.

DF

I usually cut tru-oil 50/50 with mineral spirits to make it a bit thinner; requires more coats, but I think the absorbtion is better. I agree that using the slurry method improves results with tru-oil, or any rubbed in finish.

I use Tru-Oil as well. Haven't tried the Pro Oil, but I am going to be doing a M70 bedding and refinish here shortly. Might have to order some of the oil, I have read Northern Dave's bedding thread, very extensive! and well executed. Gave me the courage to give it a try on my winne! I don't know how many owners this rifle has had, but it has been abused and torn up! The trigger was all screwed up,
and was beyond repair. My smith buddy recommended a Rifle Basix replacement, so that was what I did. it has gone from 6lbs12oz, to 20oz! So as I said a bedding job and refinish are next and then maybe it will put five shots in a circle smaller than 3" at 100 yards! It's a 22-250 BTW, so it should do much better than that! This is it now.

,

You can't see it too well but the stock is scraped up good on both sides, this is what I do to rifle bolts.

,

Takes about nine hours to do a bolt this size! But it looks good!
So I will show you what it looks like as I get started and go through the process! Doug

Incredibly funny that anyone would call Pro-oil "harder and tougher" than Tru-Oil... Not that Pro-Oil is not hard and tough... but rather that the same stuff, Tru-Oil, is somehow lacking. Gaseous colloids being blown up ticklish orifii...

No one that makes a sample board with sanded slurry and likes it should be allowed to vote... It is an absolute no-brainer. It takes mere minutes and is definitive. High end builders get away with it because they are using very tight pored wood. Everybody else is either fooling themselves or an idiot.

There is more... But let some more experts crawl from the "woodwork" for a while...

Since your suggestion, I've been reading up on the pro oil. I think I'll go that route.

Thanks for the replies-

Wade

I've read one of your heated debates on this topic during a search. 2009 circa I believe I've seen some beautiful finishes from each product. I suppose the secret is putting the time in.

Sounds like I stepped on a Claymore trip wire. Not trying to pull anyone's string, just relating what I've learned from one of the best and what I've experienced over 50 yrs of wood work. Trying to help, not agitate anyone...

DF

I use "oil finishes" a lot in furniture building and the projects I undertake for the school. I do like them, but I gave up long ago on using them for something like a gunstock that will be handled a lot and exposed to inclement weather. For that, nothing beats a barrier finish- varnish, epoxy, etc, take your pick. For that nice warm "hand rubbed oil finish" look, properly rub out the final coat of the barrier finish and voil�, people will admire your new "oil finished" stock.

Take Art's advice and do a test board with various types of finishes, set it outside for a while, and get back to us as to which one you want on your pride and joy.

It don't much matter what material is used for the filler after the grain is raised and struck off. Could be spar varnish cut 1:1 with turpentine, Tru-Oil cut the same, tung oil, or Pro-Oil reduced with mineral spirits, or even polyurethane floor finish. What makes the difference is how it's applied and struck off.

The finish itself needs the same treatment, thin coats rubbed flat, wet sanded with reduced finish with ever finer grits from 320 to 600. Once all the grain is filled it's gotta dry for at least a week, better a month, before being polished and waxed. It's the preparation and effort expended on getting it right that works wonders, not so much the material. I've even seen stocks with spray automotive lacquer finishes that looked good.

Wood laminate stocks are easier, the laminating adhesive prevents deep penetration of any sealer/finish, so once the wood grain becomes as shiny as the glue lines - it's done.

I've not personally tried it, but when I quizzed the Shiloh Sharps folks they reported using a sanded in tung oil finish on their higher quality stocks. I am very impressed with their work. I'm working up a stock for 6.5 build right now and will give it a try.

I've done several stocks with hand rubbed Tru-oil but never attempted any wet sanding.

Regardless of your approach, let us know how things go.

My only advice is to be very patient.

I have the time in the world for this project. It is an extra Sako stock I have laying around and I want to do it justice. I seen one Sako project finished with Tru Oil and it was beautiful.

What possible advantage is there in adding solvents to oil? If oil is too thick to use as is it should be thrown out or saved for non-critical projects. Adding solvents is a mistake without benefit and it will increase telegraphing later. And that is extremely easy to prove.

Wood filled with oil will eventually telegraph the pores. Slurry in the pores will not change that.

Sample boards are very fast and easy to make... I have never seen anyone choose a sanded slurry finish when compared to the same finish without slurry... and I have seen dozens compared...

Sita deer,

What process would you recommend? Would you use a commercial filler first followed by oil, or something entirely different.

Thanks in advance-

I personally use slow-cure epoxy. It is not the easiest, but it is the best from every durability and waterproof angle.

I would never use fillers. They are opaque and they muddy the look of the finish. Do yourself a favor and make a sample board or two...

Easier is a good varnish for a basecoat or two and then cut with good oil. Start with the smallest can of varnish and after each coat or so add more oil. By the time you are done the varnish will be mostly oil, the finish will look just like oil, and application will be far easier.

Apply the finish fairly thick, allow to cure for 10-15 minutes and wipe absolutely dry with a lint-free cloth. Do not sand between layers unless you screw up and leave a run. Coats may be added as often as several per day.

SD,I appreciate the advice. I found one of your 2005 posts on its application.

You still favor the G1 G2 Lee Valley product?

build up a base of the tru oil

3-5 for intial

let dry 2-3 days
sand with 4ot steel wool

put 1-2 coats of tru oil on
let dry 2-3 days
sand with 4 ot steel wool

between sandings i hose the whole stock down with strong water steam from garden hose
(sacriledge.....to some)
let it dry a full day


after about 4-5 times of this steelwooling process
the pores are almost even with the top grain

i put the truoil on with my hands
make a coat hanger hook rope set up and put it in the grain direction

i clean my hands with gasoline
the truoil builds up on your skin and nails




my last coats are wiping coats
25% truoil 75% mineral spirits
easy to apply by hand again
fast drying
leaves minimal hand and finger marks on stock due to its thiness and ability to even out and lay down on the wood


the biggest trick about working with truoil by bare hand
is to not working it anymore after the feeling of fluidity is lost when applying and you start to feel drag when you apply it is the time to stop and let it dry

drying time is also important
at least 2 days between sanding


and i usually let my finsih harden up for 2-3 weeks in a dry warm room before reassembling the gun


tru oil is basically a mild version of polyurathene varnish
but is easier to work with

i havenever used a filler or slurry method when using truoil

it does that on its own thru built and sanded off layers

cleaning meticuosly bewteen sanding is vital
high pressure water from a hose has worked best for me



also never
never put truoil on with out washing your hands prior completetly clean
anything on your hands or in the pores of your skin
will get transferred to it


use 2575 wiping mixture for your checkering


use low adhesive 3m blue tape to mask it off during your coating

cahnge masking after every sanding and cleaning session


use sof t bristle tooth brush for applying the wiping oil mixture to your checkering

use the tape on the very edge of the outside of checkering to prevent over run


i have used truoil since the mid 70,s to redo stocks

this is how i basically redo a stock


usually takes anywheres from 45-60 days from start to finish for me

some times i let the project sit in what ever stage it is in for a week sometimes before i drift back to it.

3 oz bottle is way plenty enough for one stock

and inexpensive enough to toss for a fresh bottle for another stock



either
how ever you refinish your stock
your will feel proud of it cause you did it yourself and spend time in the woods looking at its new found grian highlights that truoil brings out


good luck with your project



i have pics of my mod 70 on the winchester collector thread and pics of my ml rifle and pistol on the ml thread

i like a gloss finish with truoil and linseed oils myself

Renegade
That is easily the most ridiculous finishing post ever left on this forum... And we even had the Armorall thing posted.

The really sad part is you left out all the secret incantations so anyone attempting your "method" will surely fail.

go look at my pics i referenced too
then tell me how they failed so badly in your self proclaimed expert opinon of my method that you have not seen me do


i dont need your approval for what i do for my method
nor does your post count or vast internet "self proclaimed knowledge" imtimidate me


most of the time when people post these precise technical presentations
all they are doing is plagerizing someone else anyways
and presenting it as theirs somehow






you have a nice day their homer formby
you wannna slam me
i can slam back
i was being civil
explaining how i do my stocks
then you insult me
and what i am suppoised to do
kowtow to you cause you have been here longer and have a post count


aint gonna happen




what ever reply you make to me
wont be replied to by me
i wont be lured into a peeing contest with a "self declared master" such as yourself


bag on my writing, spelling, punctuation
whatever
do what it takes to make yourself look good in replying to me


what the frigg ever........................




like i said before
have a nice day.......................

Gave up on True Oil a long time ago. There are better oil modified urethanes out there. Fillers are not needed, neither is sanding between coats, unless needed to correct mistakes.Many very very thincoats are the secret, not thick sloppy coats. Always use gloss and knock it down in the end. Just My opinion.

REALLY AMAZING the different views on "HOW TO" on the stock finish. I use true oil my self. I have done clost to 60 stock and really like the finish I get with the slurry thing. I like the color I get by using Herters original stock stain and doing the slurry with it. This is made from walnuts and the color comes out alot like pre64 win on some stocks. I would be afraid to say how many stocks a guy can finish with 3 oz of tru oil but several. After opening a new jar, when I close it up, I squeeze the air out of the bottle as much as possible and put the lid on... then store it upside down. If you don't store it upside down you get a dried film of tru oil that you have to break thru to use the next time. The slurry thing gives me a very different look ... more of a higrade furnature look and my stock finish sell themselves... they have more of a "GLOW" than a shine. OH !! +1 on Renagade50 last post.

Ackley, good idea on squeezing the air out and storing the bottle upside down. I'd never have thought of that. One nice thing about Pro Oil, it doesn't skim over like Tru Oil.

It's amazing how dogmatic some can become on a subject like stock finishing. The info I posted is from a master gunmaker who has been a friend since we were both much younger. He makes a living working on some of the world's finest shotguns and rifles, restoring wood and metal. This process is his proprietary method and I was sharing some of the specifics. Of course, in the master's hands things come together a bit different.

I guess it's what works in someone's experience. Can't argue with that. Its just that there are no dogmatic rights and wrongs and when some on this forum become overly testy, professing that their way is the only way, it distracts from the body of knowledge we are all looking for.

IMHO,

DF

Lots of methods have existed for a very long time based only on the needs of previous generations. Old oil was not tossed, it was used. Rubbing it in both conserved it and was needed to spread the thick junk. There was also a lack understanding about how the stuff works. Myths and superstitions developed.

Why do virtually all wood finishers go over their work with a tack cloth before applying finish? Yet stockmakers started using the sanding slurry filler and it stuck?

Old time stockmakers got away with it because they were using very tight-pored wood usually. Very little slurry was actually used. It is extremely easy to make a sample board and actually look at what will happen with different finishes. I have never seen anyone comparing a sanded slurry finish on moderately open-pored walnut that did not choose a different finish... including a number of folks with sanding slurry experience with gunstocks.

The dogma is what is attached to methods that lost their usefulness many decades ago... Steelwool for example.

Rubbing out oil by hand does not leave as smooth a finish as a heavy application wiped dry with cloth... again, a sample board proves it easily.

Solvents do not increase penetration of finish, just the solvents go deep... and cause issues on the rise back to the surface.

Oil finishes cohere better before curing hard and that is also easy to prove...

Please continue to do it however you like... but giving bad advice does not do anyone a service. Going through long series of ridiculous steps with multiple "magic" movements completely at odds with earlier steps is hilarious. Why would renegade use high pressure water to make sure he got the sanding dust off when he has already incorporated it into his finish? Obviously he realizes mud in finish looks like Hell... And he is right about that.

And no one has addressed the obvious fact the oil will shrink and telegraph pores...

Carry on!

Have you ever made a sample board to compare your finish to others?

How do you like the telegraphing pores a few months after you finish a stock?

SD,

I did a few sample boards in my youth, but haven't found the need in the last 40+ years of stock work. My professional gunmaking buddy is always busy on a new project and I've yet to see a sample board in his shop. I don't understand your constant reference to them.

DF

Why would I suggest someone make a sample board to test finishes??? Could it be because the OP asked for advice? Clearly he lacks the experience to know what he likes... A sample board is extremely easy and proves my points exactly.

I suggest you make a sample board because you clearly have a very narrow perspective based on a lot of foolishness. Suggesting others "Walk this way" is silly when one is making it harder for them. And being able to compare two samples makes it easier to skip the "Settling for good enough" thing.

Lots of ways will work, but lots of your methods are antiquated and counterproductive. It is very easy to show what steelwool fragments do under your finish... and they are there.

To paraphrase Lefty Kreh, "There is more bullschit in woodfinishing than there is in a Kansas feedlot."

At least I can agree with Lefty.

Narrow isn't bad if it's focused. Antiquated would probably include the Holland and Holland gun shop. Counterproductive is a subjective concept.

Modern synthetic finishes are OK and very practical for mass production. I even tried them back in my youth.

I offered a professional gun maker's process that he learned from other professionals. I'm not trying to recruit the OP, just sharing. I don't really care which road he or others choose to travel...

DF

I've used the "sanding-in" method as developed by the great Phil Pilkington for the last 20 years with plenty of success. I use Tru-Oil cut with mineral spirits, lightly wet sanding the wood with 320 thru 600 paper in line with the grain, then wiping the mixture off the entire stock after it sets up a little. Porous wood obviously will need a few more sanding coats, but most wood will fill very nicely after 5-6 coats. Since Tru-Oil dries quickly, you can do a sanding coat per day. Once the pores are filled, you can go over the wood with the diluted Tru-Oil for a glossier finish.

I appreciate all the responses. It sounds by all accounts Sitka's procedure is solid and perhaps more durable in adverse conditions, but maybe not the best project for a first timer.

I decided to try the Tru-oil sand in finish.

Thanks for the information.

Classic example of the power to mislead held by the internet...

Nothing misleading about it. The Tru-Oil finish works. I've discussed epoxy finishes with several stockmakers, and have used polyurethane on a stock - once. Either method is a real mess IMHO, and totally unforgiving of mistakes. Tru-Oil, on the other hand, is practically foolproof. Who cares if it shrinks into the pores a little? Just rub a little linseed oil on the stock periodically.

I've been using Minwax Helmsman spar polyurethane for quite a few years now. I don't find it difficult to get a really fine looking finish with it. I also find it's much more durable than tru oil.

Ditto on the Helmsmans Gloss and it will show the true wood grain better. I like it, but have never done a high quality piece of wood, just regular factory stuff. Could be wrong, but the last I knew, Tru Oil is a oil modified urethane with a little more oil & wax than most.

I'm just finishing up the second stock I've done using Helmsman. I wanted a satin finish but......
Someone said if I used the gloss as a base and then did my finish with satin I'd get a better enhancement of the grain. Didn't work. Kept getting dull film streaks that wouldn't cover. I thought maybe I had contaminated my urethane/mineral spirits mix so redid it but no good. So I'll live with the gloss. Advice. If you want a satin finish use the satin urethane through out the process. I did my first stock with it and was very pleased.

Urethane and mineral oil?!?!?! Where did that idea come from? Unreal!

NEVER use satin finish on a gun stock or any finish you actually care about. The flattening agents are basically silica and do nothing positive for the finish.

Always use gloss and cut the cured finish back to the desired luster with a good polish like rottenstone and mineral oil on a felt block.

Taconic, I spent some hours trying to figure out what is in Tru-Oil a while back. I didn't keep notes but ended up concluding it was probably phenolic varnish and linseed oil in some unknown proportion. Seems to have the right properties for that sort of blend. Trade secret stuff but that's where I ended up. I like it for a traditional finish but have to admit I like the definitely urethane based finishes like Pro-Custom better.

"The flattening agents are basically silica and do nothing positive for the finish."

Not to mention your checkering tools.

I don't remember where I found it now but I saw a breakdown of ingredients for tru oil somwhere years ago. It's nothing but varnish plain and simple. It does contain a slightly higher percentage of linseed oil than most varnishes but that's it.

As someone with a lot of time in a lab spent studying finishes, and the technology associated, I find the guessing here well beyond funny...

Carry on...

OK great and self annointed, all knowing thief. Will do.

And again you expound on that on which you are clueless about...

I think most here know the story Art. Your denial of what you did and what you are won't change it.

Again... you are clueless despite your claim... and making accusations when you do not know the facts is usually a bad idea.

[quote=Sitka deer]Urethane and mineral oil?!?!?! Where did that idea come from? Unreal!

NEVER use satin finish on a gun stock or any finish you actually care about. The flattening agents are basically silica and do nothing positive for the finish.

Always use gloss and cut the cured finish back to the desired luster with a good polish like rottenstone and mineral oil on a felt block."



REALLY! Where did that mineral OIL idea come from?! Cause I was suppose to type mineral SPIRITS.

Sd,I've read ALOT of your posts about stock work over the yrs and agree with you 100%. Your thoroughly tested technique has to give the best weather protection finish (among other qualities) going. But I had to look for a finish I felt comfortable trying to do myself. The first stock I did (with much trial and error) using the satin spar urethane(knowing about the adverse effects of the dulling agents on the wood and tools)gave me a look I was satisfied with. But MAINLY it gave me a highly water resistant finish. I left the stock in a tub of warm water for an hour with no ill affects. Hunted last yr in one of the wettest,warmest,most humid seasons we've had. No problems. Is it the best? NOT EVEN saying it is. But so far so good. And honestly,this is the only wood stock I'll be having on a rifle. Maybe down the road sometime I'll try something different. This rifle has been a 30yr on going project so it's hard to say what I'll get into.
By the way. I've read elsewhere about the gloss reducing procedure you mentioned. I've got to give it try after this finish has set up good (at least a month?). I just don't think I can handle the gloss.

It really doesn't matter Art. If you keep something one minute longer than it's rightful owner wishes that is thievery. You admitted you did just that on here so you are a thief, period. I don't give a damn what convoluted reasons or justifications you may have cooked up in your mind for what you did. Nothing changes the facts. Furthermore, all I did was pass on something I remembered reading YEARS AGO as to the ingredients in tru-oil. I really don't give a rat's pink ass what's in it to tell you the truth. I've used it, hunted rifles finished with it and there's other stuff I like better. It doesn't matter one bit to me whether it contains alkyd resins, phenolic resins or Martian spit. Got it ?

Well. Someone piss in your cornflakes today Blackheart? Such vitriol does not become you, or anyone else.

If I were going to use a polyurethane, I would go with the Helmsman. (But it's not my first choice.) I suspect that stock will age gracefully, but there is the chance of checking/hazing years down the line. Aside from the aforementioned adverse qualities of anything satin or semi-gloss, there is also the effects of diminished UV resistance compared to gloss- generally speaking.

I refinished my .30-30's stock with Helmsman 10 years ago. It's been hunted ALOT in rain, sleet, snow and bitter cold and still looks good with no checking or hazing. Likewise my SxS shotgun still looks fine after 8 years wearing Helmsman. Both guns have been exposed to the extremes in temperature and humidity with no ill effects.

EZ Earl - I may have been the person who told you on another post to use the urethane/spar varnish gloss. I stand by my advise. Gloss is the only shade to use and there is absolutely no reason to thin urethane / spar varnish with paint thinner (mineral spirits).On the last finish coat,rub it out with a 000 or 0000 synthetic wool (3m pad)with some linseed oil for lubricant and wipe down. You will have a satin oil looking finish.I am not suggesting using this method on quality wood, just factory stuff.Every one has their own method.

Your preaching to the choir,T. Until/if I decide to get more involved in refinishing I'll use the urethane gloss because it's easy to apply,once you get a system down, and it does what I want a finish to do taking into consideration the limitations of the product. It's better than the satin in that it brings out the best of the wood,again,when you take into consideration the limitations of the product. But as you say everyone has their own method. First stock I did I used the recommended brush but couldn't put it on thin enough so had streaks. I saw a video of someone on You Tube appying some sort of finish using their finger/fingers. I found I got a better application BUT the stuff was setting up on me too quick. Using my friend Goggle I found some others who were doing it the way I wanted but they started with a 50/50 mix. After many very thin coats and I figured the stock was ready for finish coats I used a 2 parts urethane/1 part mineral spirits. As of now I've only had to put on 2 finish coats. I'm satisfied but if I could get a satin finish I'd like it more. I've been told of 2(yours now makes three ways to do it). Basically the same but using diff materials. Guess I should let the urethane cure for a time before trying it? Maybe at least a month?

I use a piece of micro fiber cloth or a cut up piece of an old polypro underwear. Just enough of a film to wet the stock. Wipe on, wipe off. Many coats, very thin. No paint thinner. I used to use my fingers, no more.If you want to keep on brushing it on thick, have at it. I choose to coat with just enough to wet the stock, then wipe off.

I didn't think I was getting it on all that thick using my finger. At least nowhere as much as compared to using a brush. I keep spreading what I applied to my finger until I use it up. If I see spots that have too much I wipe the excess off with my finger and continue. But then I can see it being thicker than if it was completely wiped off. Might have to give that a try sometime. Wonder how silk fabric would work?

I find the finger method too slow and not as accurate as using the cloth pad. The poly / spar urethane will be too tacky to effectively wipe off. I use the same method with True Oil, only I don't care for the thickness of True Oil and find that you are wipeing more off than on.1 coat will take no more than 5-7 minutes.Then hang it up to dry. If you have made a mistake, lightly sand out the whole stock & go again.

The reasons oil was applied with fingers from the beginning were basically two-fold... Oil was hard to come by so it was never thrown out, once it starts to thicken it can still be applied with the fingers. It takes a lot more work/time that way, though, and the results are iffy, at best.

Old oil should be tossed, certainly never used on a stock.

Yea well,live and learn. Stripped it down and doing it T11's way. Didn't realize how thick I was putting it on when using my digit. Stole the wife's micro fiber cloths(only $1 @ the Dollar General Store)and using my silk thermals(talk about something that didn't work out)to wipe with. So far REAL good.

DEAR ALL KNOWING SITKA !! All I need to know is I have NEVER had a stock come back.... ever !! All I need are happy people. IF the people is happy... guess what ?? I IS HAPPY !! I KNOW ... ALL MY PEOPLE ARE RETARDS... BUT THEY ARE HAPPY RETARDS
ooorrr maybe you don't know EVERY F####KIN THING ABOUT THE PROPER APLICATION OF TRU OIL ?? Having had that fun..., you have some good info but your Ahole attitude sucks...... just saying

Calm down! No one is saying Tru Oil is bad stuff per se, just that there are many (often better) alternatives- especially if said stock will see harsh conditions. I like to finish my stocks with harsh conditions in mind even if I know in my heart that they won't experience anything worse than a 40� day at the range.

Ah, well, as you are unable to debate direct facts I guess attacking me is all you had left... But calling your own customers retards is a little strong, don't you think?

But you are right I probably do come across as an azzhole to many. The problem is I continue to suggest people take a tiny bit of work and actually compare finishes one time. And it is not even my idea, it has been around forever. Over the internet I cannot show you the difference. In hand, you would be embarassed by your dumbass application compared to dozens of other far-easier application routes. I absolutely know that because I have done it repeatedly to show folks.

By the way, Herter's red wood stain is not made with walnuts...

As someone once said, you can bullshit the fans but you can't bullshit the players.

I have never said I dislike Tru-Oil... it remains a favorite of mine for a lot of reasons, especially over epoxy. I recognize its weaknesses, but also its strengths...

Why do you like it over epoxy? Does it make for an easier to repair surface finish while expoxy does the heavy lifting against water intrusion?

EXACTLY!

I also really like the look of Tru-Oil over myrtle. I really dislike the look of it over maple though. But those are taste issues unrelated to how it performs in any particular situation.

All three of these myrtle stocks are finished with epoxy and Tru-Oil. The pump gun is Accraglass sealed and ancient, the mauser is West System Cold Cure sealed and has been huted hard around saltwater and in the rain for a very long time. The last is a 700 stock for a SS 30-06. It has G-1 for a base coat.

Earl - You're dangerous to yourself when you get creative. Silk?? Maybe, maybe not, never tried. Follow the directions.It isn't that hard.

The new Min Wax wipe on poly is far superior and easy to apply.
Comes on Matte & Gloss. Takes many, many coats, easy to fix any bo-bos and very durable. Next best thing to airbrushing on automotive clear coat.

Results: (wood demanded a high gloss finish)









Yeah that's a factory 721 B stock !

Not as dangerous as trying to use those silk thermals to stay warm with. Their working out fine for applying the finish with though. No streaks or lint. Actually it's been an easy job. Alot less mess than how I was doing it. Should finish my last coat tomorrow. Should I let the stock sit for any length of time before doing the linseed,0000 synthetic steel wool,treatment?

Them's pretty nice. Wish I could find a decent stick of myrtle to work with.

I'm LIKING #2.

Interthem,
Minwax site says that the wipe-ons are for interior use only. How's it holding up? Actually the spar urethane wipes on and off easily.

I never said red wood stain.... you did. Say what I say

Good luck Earl. Looks like your getting into the groove.For curing, doesn't the product say how long it takes. I sometimes have put on 4 coats in 1 day of the spar urethane.after your last finish coat and you are where you want it. Wait a month or so before you apply your wax.Wax on, Wax off.

THANKS,T. I was meaning down time before waxing.

Minwax can says to let dry 4hrs before another coat but of course that's when brushing it on. I was doing two coats a day. What I really like is the no sanding in between. Maybe a spot or two if I felt something but not much at all. Surface is as smooth as glass.

YUP, Do you like the look? Was I right about the gloss and how it brings out the character of the grain? On the final couple of coats, the oil & 0000 synth. wool rub down should make it look like an oil finish.You can use the True oil, but I usually cut it with more oil so it doesn't dry so fast and is more workable.Wet the wool pad up, rub it with the grain and wipe off with a clean "Shop Rag" - The lint free Paper towel type that comes in a box. A friend, who does exihibition grade stocks, will use those very cheap restaurant or party napkins that kinda has a sheen to them. He swears by this.But he doesn't use a hardware store finish, either. He uses something like the Holland & Holland oil finish. Nothing like the looks of an oil finish.

Yea,I'm liking the look. What's good about applying it this way is that the change in look is gradual.
Deleted the pics I took and got the wife to take a quick pic as she was heading out.

Bad pics, Earl, But you should be able to look into the finish and see every bit of grain & each color. I think your almost there.Show a pic of the final rub down that looks like oil & not so shiny.

Will do.

I gave the mirror image blank from the top stock to DaninAlaska to build a 721 stock for a 300H&H, but it failed to prosper (aside from the abuse points generated on my behalf) and needs some attention soon. Funny thing is the proper picture of that stock is from the other side where a large black stripe runs through the grip and then bounces up into the butt. The two blanks are perfect mirror images and include the black stripes.

I have nothing in the way of myrtle blanks now. And they are hard to find in better grades. I know where there was (is?) one here in town that is pretty decent and over 20 years cut... but I have no idea what it might cost to get it. Estate has a bunch of wood with only a couple sticks worth doing anything with and they think they are all valuable...

Beautiful!!

Okay here is exactly what you said:
"REALLY AMAZING the different views on "HOW TO" on the stock finish. I use true oil my self. I have done clost to 60 stock and really like the finish I get with the slurry thing. I like the color I get by using Herters original stock stain and doing the slurry with it. This is made from walnuts and the color comes out alot like pre64 win on some stocks. I would be afraid to say how many stocks a guy can finish with 3 oz of tru oil but several. After opening a new jar, when I close it up, I squeeze the air out of the bottle as much as possible and put the lid on... then store it upside down. If you don't store it upside down you get a dried film of tru oil that you have to break thru to use the next time. The slurry thing gives me a very different look ... more of a higrade furnature look and my stock finish sell themselves... they have more of a "GLOW" than a shine. OH !! +1 on Renagade50 last post."


Sorry, but I thought everyone knows the model 70 finish is very red. Herter's made more than one color finish, but if it looks like a 70 it is red. Walnut dye produces a blue-black color. Alkinet root is what most use for natural red dyes to match the 70 finish.

If you can really see a huge difference in the "slurry thing" you are doing it very different from most...

HEY SITKA ?? You said the herters stain is not made from walnuts.... That got me to wondering where I came up with that so I went to my notes and found I had taken a chunk out of the stain { does yours have chunks?} and looked at it under a magnifying glass and it looked like chunks of walnut shell. I also went looking for my can of stain and just remembered I "loaned" it to a buddy 6 months ago and it hasn't made it home yet so I can't look at the can to see what it says. Just checked the Brownells catalog and it really doesn't say. Do you know for sure what is in there.... what the chunks are.

Walnut dyes are not made from the shells... the husk is where the color comes from. It is usually done as a water "tincture" and not in oil. The browns are not very color-fast.

Alkinet root on the other hand produces the red of characteristic 70 stocks. It has been the standard for a long time.

If your stocks actually come out red it is not a walnut based stain, period.

Any oil-based finish more than 6 months old and I would not want it back...

Earl you need to get out more. Minwax is just playing CYA as the polys actually penetrate the wood whereas the varnishes, they are pushing, are just a surface coat. The Min Wax wipe on polys work fine for me as it doesn't rain in WY and when it snows it doesn't melt until June.
Having spent almost 30 years playing with wooden boats, in a previous life, there is no "nature based" finish that will hold up in the wet over time. The best we ever found was Cetol matte #1, followed by Cetol gloss #2 which was easy to renew every year with a scuffing with Bronze wool (steel wool is never used on a wooden boat!) and a recoat of #2 with a foam brush.
For something that can be really sealed on all sides, like a gunstock, there is nothing better than a sprayed on automotive clear coat. It is even more bulletproof than the older epoxy finished Weatherby stocks. Think about what your car/truck goes through vs your gun.... any questions?

I disagree on the auto finishes as better than epoxies... For one thing the difficulty applying makes it very limited in application.

I also disagree on the penetration difference in polys versus varnishes... A very simple test board would prove that... None will give you measurably more penetration than the other.

Thinning either or both will not increase penetration, either.

kick it up a notch. i'm loving this!

Nothing can get a conversation going like a question about gun stock finishing or metal bluing.
We all have different levels of experience and if we`ve been around for awhile have tried several different products and methods to accomplish the task.
I have two products that I have used with good results and would recommend .The method used is the similar with both.
When doing a Pre 64 Winchester I use John Kays Pre64 Winchester stock oil and follow the instuctions.John is not in business any longer but his oil can be found on Gunbroker from a seller in Texas. The second product is available at "Woodcrafters" and on line. It is "Waterlox original sealer".This product is a combination of linseed,tung and driers.
With the John Kay product dilute with low-odor mineral spirits per instruction sheet.With the Waterlox I dilute it 50/50 with the same. With the stock clean and prepared for finishing flood the stock with either product and allow it to soak in.Towel off any excess that does not penetrate and allow to dry. Next step is wet sanding with either 220 or 320 wet dry paper. Small one inch square piece with a backing. Work a small area at a time and make the strokes with the grain only. Don`t be stingy with the product.Leave the residue "the slurry' on the stock and let it dry. Another wet sand will follow with either the same or finer grit paper like 400 on up to 600-800 grit depending on your judgement and number of sandings.About the third cycle of sanding you will begin to see the results.As mentioned in some of the other replies the pores of the wood and even minor damage that did not fully respond to steaming etc will begin to fill in and disappear.
The two products differ in the time that must be allowed for drying.If you use the John Kay oil it must dry a number of days between wet sandings.A week is not too much.When I use this oil I try to do at least three stocks so I can stagger out the time waiting for them to dry.
Of the two, I much prefer the Waterlox as the drying time is fairly short. Using good old Florida sunshine really speeds it up.Artificial source such as a small heater or your fireplace if you don`t have the sun. When you have finished with your last wet sand; stopping at whatever grit you judge fine enough, it is time for the final finish.After drying apply finger dunks of Tru-oil and handrub it all over the stock. Immediately wipe it off with a clean cloth.If it becomes tacky and hard to remove cut it with a little mineral spirits and apply more and again wipe it off.You can`t get it all and this is what you want ,just a very thin layer of Tru-oil. Allow to dry and if you feel another application is needed cut the finish down with 0000 steel wool,wipe it well with a clean cloth and do it again. If the finish is too shiny you can use a rubbing compound or lightly use 0000 steel wool to take the sheen off. A final application of a good paste wax like Johnsons paste furniture wax and you are done.
There was mention of stains. The John Kay product has the Winchester red stain in it so you don`t have to do anything with it. The Waterlox contains no stain. Spirit stains are available that can be used with this method.I make mine with denatured alchohol and alkanet root and the powdered water soluable stains available at most craft supply outlets. Even after application and drying of the Waterlox the stain will penetrate through the finish. I usually wait until the last wet sand and apply the stains then. With the light sanding that is done in the last cycle the stain can be feathered into the areas needed.
Since this post was about Tru-oil I felt I should mention that I do use it but not as the primary finish. That 8 ounce bottle would do a thousand or more stocks for me.
Last kink for those that do like Tru-Oil ; To keep it from gumming up in the bottle keep some marbles in the shop.Put them in the bottle to take up the air space as you use the oil. Bring it right to the top and you will have no more skimming over and gummy oil.
Joe

We agree on one point, automotive clear coats are tough to apply. Cars are not easy to paint either. In both cases, if done correctly, the prize is worth the quest.
As I doubt you have any experience with the application of either sprayed epoxy finishes or clear coats, your statement on their durability has little credibility.
Having applied both as well as Awlgrip (really nasty stuff) to WEST laminated hulls, I speak from experience. Unless you are set up to apply any of the three, it's too much work for a occasional
home stock refinishing job.
Truoil works, synthetics are just better.

Tru oil can do a really nice finish. I did a write up on it for another forum. The trick for gloss is in coffee filters.

http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/10254-finishing-your-own-rifle-stock.html

It does yellow over time, but is easy to redo.

Actually the amber tint is why I like it when doing a classic finish, a clear finish just looks odd on some pieces. To me anyway.

Not going to agree with you on "best" for auto clear coats for stocks... It requires a ton of work to get the finish applied, a ton more work to bring it from too glossy to eggshell, and you never get rid of the coke bottle look. For most applications some form of varnish will work fine and certainly epoxies are tough enough for any application. Oil simply makes things easier to look at. Superglue does a better job than most anything while making a water-clear finish to match the best automotive paints.

And all can be applied anywhere, by anyone, with very minimal rigging.

Automotive needs are far greater than any reasonable stock will ever need.

Now why would Minwax be playing CYA? Don't go paranoid on us now. LOL
As far as getting out more. Believe me when I say I deserve to stay in more than usual.
I do APPRECIATE all input into stock finishing though.