Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Colt Police Positive .38 Colt New Police

OK.....I have a colt police positive that is chambered for the .38 colt new police cartridge. Everything that I have read suggests that ".38 colt np" was colt's designation for their cartridge that was identical to the .38 S&W cartridge. The only difference that I have found is that colt loaded their ammo with flat nose bullets and S&W loaded their ammo with round nose bullets.

Now here's my problem. I have a colt police positive that is chambered for .38 colt new police and I can not get it to chamber .38 S&W ammo. The only ammo that I have on hand is Remington .38 S&W 158gr RN.

What's the deal? Why won't the ammo chamber?

(Cleaned the heck out of it too, still a no go.)

They are two designations for the same cartridge. Shouldn't be a problem. Don't understand why that's happening.

Anyone else have an idea maybe?

Is it a Police Positive Special? If so, it may have an erroneous .38 Special cylinder in it. Other than that (admittedly) bizarre scenario, I can't think of a reason why a .38 S&W cartridge wouldn't fit in a Colt NP chamber.

Turns out that .38 special will chamber! Kinda funny when the barrel is marked .38 colt NP and the serial number dates to 1914.

My Police Positive is a 38 Special, if you cannot chamber 38S&W in I suspect that is what yours is as well.

Perhaps it isn't the original cylinder?

Are you sure that ammo doesn't say "38 S&W Special" on the box?
The only Rem 38 S&W I'm familiar with is loaded with 146 gr RNL.

BTW, same cartridge as British 38/200, 380 Rim, 380 Webley.

Pete

The .38 New Police cartridge is shorter but wider (max diameter .386", max length 1.18") compared to the .38 Special (.379" max diameter, 1.55" max length). The Police Positive was chambered for the New Police whereas the Police Positive Special was chambered for the .38 Special.

Besides the difference in ammunition, the Police Positive Special has a longer cylinder than the Police Positive. The Police Positive has an almost square looking cylinder whereas Police Positive Special is distinctly rectangular in appearance. The two cylinders are NOT interchangeable, and a cylinder for the PPS will not physically fit in the Police Positive frame.

I suggest you measure the length of the cylinder - if it is 1 9/16" from front to back, you have the Police Positive Special. If that is the case, possibly the original barrel was replaced with one from a Police Positive, which would explain the markings.

Ok, but how it have a serial number from 1914?

I'm not sure exactly what your question is. According to my pocket booklet on Colt Dates of Manufacture by R.L. Wilson, the first Police Positive was made in 1905, the first Police Positive Special was made in 1908. A build date of 1914 could be either one. What is the length of the cylinder?

My question is: If the barrel is marked "Colt Police Positive .38 Colt N.P." they WHY does only .38 special ammo chamber in the cylinder and .38 s&w ammo will NOT?????

Possibly because someone replaced the barrel at some point. Barrels can be screwed in and out. MY question STILL is, what is the length of the cylinder? Get out your damn ruler and measure it! If it is 1 9/16" long you have a Police Positive Special cylinder and frame, regardless of what the barrel says.

Sure it isn't marked 38 Colt Special, that is the same as the .38 S&W Special or .38 special as we know it today.

Black Hills used to sell .38 Colt ammo. My Great Grandfather's Army Special (forerunner of the Official Police)is chambered for that cartridge. I used to load 148 grain HBWC's in .38 special brass for it.

Nobody knows but the easiest answer is that somebody swapped the cylinder out from the original 38 S&W to one in 38 Spec. This is easier than Terry's idea of a different barrel-which could be the case instead.

I'd make sure the timing's not off. There is the distinct possibility somebody just put the cylinder in there and didn't fit it to the gun, making a possible dangerous situation if it's out of time. Lots of those old Colts are anyway.

My guess is that it won't be very accurate due to the difference in bore diameters between the barrel and bullets used for the Special.

The problem with swapping cylinders is that I don't think a .38 Special cylinder would physically fit a Police Positive .38 NP frame. I believe the Colt Police Positive for .38 NP (aka S&W) has a cylinder length of approx 1.3" with a front-to-back frame opening of about 1.5," whereas the Police Positive Special (PPS) cylinder is 1.56" long with a frame opening of 1.75". This is why I say measure the length of the cylinder, or frame opening. If it is the larger dimension then it MUST be a PPS cylinder and frame and the ONLY possible explanations are either 1) the barrel was swapped at some point or 2) the barrel was mislabeled.

A simple measurement and we would KNOW whether we have a Police Positive or Police Positive Special. In the absence of DATA any more speculation is just mental masturbation. :-)

There it is Sir.