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I thought I'd post this here and get some of the fitness guru's take on it.

It's definately where I'm lacking in my routine. Truthfully I haven't cared. I like to eat food and drink beer, and I figure thats the upside of working out 4 days a week.

But, last two trips to the doc and chiropractor, and they both tell me if I drop another 10 Lbs to 185 (yeah I already lost ten since last summer) that my lower back and left knee wouldn't bother me as much.

I'm pretty active really, and busting ass at a manual labor job 10 hours a day certainly doesn't hurt what I can eat.

I'm kind of curious what all advice the hive mind has to offer?

I am not a guru, but feel much better eating a high fat, high protein style diet.

That being said, my weakness is a good IPA

I'm with Kevin T! If you want to drop weight scary fast, then cut out all sugar and starches (breads, grains, potatoes, corn, etc etc). Don't worry about counting calories or eating low fat. Don't buy the crap about whole grains - eat NO grains. Meat and veggies, eggs, nuts, fruit, fats. Your body will transform. It sounds simple, but it's extremely difficult to put into practice.

no beer

That is the thumbnail sketch, all sound advice, IMO.

If you MUST dabble in grains (I do) you've gotta do the math involved to keep insulin levels low. Barry Sear's Zone Diet is the best way to achieve this. Once you get the math of 4grams of carbs to three grams of protein with 30% of calories from fat down, you can look at a label or a plate of food and SWAG it pretty close to Zone Diet parameters.

Having said that, what PKA said has GOT to be the healthiest way to eat. His reccomendation is basically the Paleo Diet and it adheres best to the nutritional concept of "nutrient density" than any other. By that I mean the maximum amount of vitamin, minerals, phytochemicals etc for a given number of calories. So, start making every meal possible adhere to Paleo principals. IE, a serving of lean (ideally grass fed) meat about the size of YOUR (not Shaq's) palm, and two similar sized portions of veggies OF COLOR. Stay away from the breads for sure, and avoid potatoes and rice until you reach your weight goal, and only dabble in them once you do.

Since this is the Backpack Hunting forum I should add that I'm in the process of trying to incorporate these ideas into my hiking/hunting mealplans and it ain't easy to do. A few studies have been done of AT hikers and their diets. Most subsist of of high-carb processed crap. A lot of guys leave the trail before they ever get out of GA, but a sizable number quit 500-800miles later in VA. A significant percentage of these do so from shin splints and ankle injuries. Your bones are about 25% protein (collagen). I think this diet, and not enough protein in particular, is what sets them up for failure. This parallels studies I've read of nutrition and the elderly. High protein (30% of calories) is IN, even among nutritionists, who used to vehemently deny that was a good idea, in spite of the fact that the 30/30/40 diet had produced muscular men (bodybuilders) for a couple of generations.

I've actually been at this for a week now.... I like it. I can eat a little steak for dinner, a big steak for supper, and a plate of eggs in the AM. What's not to like?!

I've tried low cal diets a couple different times. More than once I've lost a pretty substantial amount of weight on a low cal diet and increase in exercise, and more than once it's all came back. Trying the cut down on sugars and starches thing this time, and drink lots of water. We'll see how it goes.

I will, however, never give up my beer!!!

3 kinds of fluids. Water, coffee and beer. I probably drink too much of the last two. Have dropped about 25 pounds of fat in last 15 months. Initially started with just portion control, but went on to drop bread, cheese, soft drinks, and potatoes. Now I am starting to watch sodium content more and trying to cut that back significantly.

Been running and lifting about 5 times a week for 15 months as well. Let's say when the sheep application says "successful" I'll be ready to go that day.

+1 PKA.

Dead on. Thats what I do and feel better than I have in years. Im 27 with a small growing family and weight was adding up. Few months of eating the way PKA described and Im back to my healthy weight.

And its easy to eat that way. If I eat grains or starches my body certainly lets me know.

I agree, stick mostly Paleo or Primal (Mark Sisson) IMO Primal is easier to follow.

You may be tired the first few days, however energy levels will return. I did a 9 mile run / hike over the weekend, had great energy, never had the need to eat. For breakfast I think I had 3 eggs and a tiny steak.

It's easiest to do if you buy some healthy snack foods to always have around. Nuts , like almonds / walnuts etc work great. Grab those instead of chips bread, whatever etc. If you have eggs and a small steak (or avocado) for breakfast, nuts as a snack, steak / fish or pork chops for dinner with some veggies you are good to go as long as you avoid the drinks. It's not just beer, all alcohol has high calories (trust me I've tried to get that more paleo and it just isn't). Red wine is probably as good as it gets.

It is really hard to eat out in this fashion, as every eating establishment provides you plenty of carbs, and while you are having your burger sans bread and your buddies are having huckleberry pie ala mode .. it stinks.

If you have chickens though or are willing to just use lots of egg yokes, you can make a frozen custard that is similar to vanilla ice cream with a lot less sugar that is pretty darn tasty.

I also think once you do this sort of diet and get over the initial lull in energy, your workouts and recovery will be much better. One other side benefit, is backpacking you can take far less food by weight, and probably eat a lot less since your body is now used to using fat for energy.

+1 I think for everyone that has ever moved over to eating that way

Bottom line: if you want to lose weight there's only one way to do it...you need to expend more calories than you consume. There's no other way. You can eat whatever you want. You can consume 5000 calories a day as long as you're burning 5500. I've lost 30 lbs since last memorial day and have never really stopped eating the foods I like or stopped drinking beer. But I did stop eating as much of them! And I started busting my butt in the gym and on the trails. You'll hear all kinds of theories as to what combination of carbs/proteins/fats are best...but people always fail to consider that every person reacts differently to different types of foods. Personally, I would NEVER cut out carbs and would never recommend that anybody else do so. Carbs are simply fuel for the body. If you're as active as you say you are, then your body absolutely needs carbohydrates. Cut out simple sugars, yes, of course. Complex carbohydrates such as whole grains, beans, brown rice, etc? No way.

I respectfully disagree. I'm very active, and can do so without carbs for fuel as long as I don't go above a certain threshold.

IMO, carbs are not something that is required. Did the hunter gatherer have access to carbs year around ? Take a look at winter in most areas, take a look at various native tribes. They survived without them as it just was not available. Carbs are made available by the local grocery, and are really only available naturally seasonal.

Yes you can loose weight by eating whatever you want in moderation, but I respectfully disagree on the need for carbs, or that they even make me feel good. I don't look at eating paleo style as a diet, I look at it as eating like a king.

Bodies do react differently. I agree.

Cant say that the paleo type diet has ever left me wanting when working out or working.....as far as energy levels go.

You're flat out wrong, plain and simple. The odds are overwhelming you be back at your old weight a year from now. The first minor injury and you'll be storing fat like gangbusters again. But don't take my word for it, how 'bout that of an endocrinologist:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8dWNbEscOw

The fact that you HAVE to workout testifies to the fact your diet was/is at fault. Your routine is analagous to having a slow leak in a tire and continually stopping to put air into it. I certainly reccomend that you exercise, but you should not HAVE to do so to maintain a normal weight.

This is a fact:

http://discovermagazine.com/2004/oct/inuit-paradox

You don't need to eat a loaf of bread or a plate of pasta to get carbs...

There's carbs in veggies and fruit.

There's carbs in nuts.

Etc etc etc...

Nice article, thanks.

Dont knock it til you try it. I tried it and I believe in it. H#ll I think I eat more veggies now than I did before.

No, YOU are flat out wrong. It's pure science. If you take in more calories than you expend you will gain weight. This isn't debatable.

And you're also wrong about me gaining weight if I have a small injury. I've had numerous small injuries. Some have made me quit running for a time...so I lifted more. Some have made me stop lifting...so I ran more. Or I lifted differently. But I continued to LOSE weight because I burned more calories through exercise than I consumed, one way or another.

To your other point, no I didn't have to work out to maintain my weight or even to lose weight. If I wanted to maintain, I could have simply eaten only what I expended. If I wanted to continue to lose weight WITHOUT exercise I could have simply cut calories from my diet.

The one point you made that is actually correct is that my diet WAS ABSOLUTELY at fault for the shape I was in. Now, I'm simply back in the shape that I'm accustomed to being in.

No. You are.

If you take in less calories than you burn you will lose weight every time and all the time until you reverse the trend.

Your argument about injuries is false because, if he still took in less than he burned (reduce intake and reduced burn) he'd STILL lose weight.

This is called engineering (or physics).

Get some!

Good thread and timely for me as well. My weight has been creeping up over the last couple of years...i blame it on a third shift lifestyle and general love of food. Definetly been trying to cut out the junk recently and can feel the difference.

Bud 55 ain't that bad when you get used to it...lol