I thought I'd post this here and get some of the fitness guru's take on it.
It's definately where I'm lacking in my routine. Truthfully I haven't cared. I like to eat food and drink beer, and I figure thats the upside of working out 4 days a week.
But, last two trips to the doc and chiropractor, and they both tell me if I drop another 10 Lbs to 185 (yeah I already lost ten since last summer) that my lower back and left knee wouldn't bother me as much.
I'm pretty active really, and busting ass at a manual labor job 10 hours a day certainly doesn't hurt what I can eat.
I'm kind of curious what all advice the hive mind has to offer?
I'm with Kevin T! If you want to drop weight scary fast, then cut out all sugar and starches (breads, grains, potatoes, corn, etc etc). Don't worry about counting calories or eating low fat. Don't buy the crap about whole grains - eat NO grains. Meat and veggies, eggs, nuts, fruit, fats. Your body will transform. It sounds simple, but it's extremely difficult to put into practice.
I'm with Kevin T! If you want to drop weight scary fast, then cut out all sugar and starches (breads, grains, potatoes, corn, etc etc). Don't worry about counting calories or eating low fat. Don't buy the crap about whole grains - eat NO grains. Meat and veggies, eggs, nuts, fruit, fats. Your body will transform. It sounds simple, but it's extremely difficult to put into practice.
That is the thumbnail sketch, all sound advice, IMO.
If you MUST dabble in grains (I do) you've gotta do the math involved to keep insulin levels low. Barry Sear's Zone Diet is the best way to achieve this. Once you get the math of 4grams of carbs to three grams of protein with 30% of calories from fat down, you can look at a label or a plate of food and SWAG it pretty close to Zone Diet parameters.
Having said that, what PKA said has GOT to be the healthiest way to eat. His reccomendation is basically the Paleo Diet and it adheres best to the nutritional concept of "nutrient density" than any other. By that I mean the maximum amount of vitamin, minerals, phytochemicals etc for a given number of calories. So, start making every meal possible adhere to Paleo principals. IE, a serving of lean (ideally grass fed) meat about the size of YOUR (not Shaq's) palm, and two similar sized portions of veggies OF COLOR. Stay away from the breads for sure, and avoid potatoes and rice until you reach your weight goal, and only dabble in them once you do.
Since this is the Backpack Hunting forum I should add that I'm in the process of trying to incorporate these ideas into my hiking/hunting mealplans and it ain't easy to do. A few studies have been done of AT hikers and their diets. Most subsist of of high-carb processed crap. A lot of guys leave the trail before they ever get out of GA, but a sizable number quit 500-800miles later in VA. A significant percentage of these do so from shin splints and ankle injuries. Your bones are about 25% protein (collagen). I think this diet, and not enough protein in particular, is what sets them up for failure. This parallels studies I've read of nutrition and the elderly. High protein (30% of calories) is IN, even among nutritionists, who used to vehemently deny that was a good idea, in spite of the fact that the 30/30/40 diet had produced muscular men (bodybuilders) for a couple of generations.
I'm with Kevin T! If you want to drop weight scary fast, then cut out all sugar and starches (breads, grains, potatoes, corn, etc etc). Don't worry about counting calories or eating low fat. Don't buy the crap about whole grains - eat NO grains. Meat and veggies, eggs, nuts, fruit, fats. Your body will transform. It sounds simple, but it's extremely difficult to put into practice.
I've actually been at this for a week now.... I like it. I can eat a little steak for dinner, a big steak for supper, and a plate of eggs in the AM. What's not to like?!
I've tried low cal diets a couple different times. More than once I've lost a pretty substantial amount of weight on a low cal diet and increase in exercise, and more than once it's all came back. Trying the cut down on sugars and starches thing this time, and drink lots of water. We'll see how it goes.
3 kinds of fluids. Water, coffee and beer. I probably drink too much of the last two. Have dropped about 25 pounds of fat in last 15 months. Initially started with just portion control, but went on to drop bread, cheese, soft drinks, and potatoes. Now I am starting to watch sodium content more and trying to cut that back significantly.
Been running and lifting about 5 times a week for 15 months as well. Let's say when the sheep application says "successful" I'll be ready to go that day.
Dead on. Thats what I do and feel better than I have in years. Im 27 with a small growing family and weight was adding up. Few months of eating the way PKA described and Im back to my healthy weight.
And its easy to eat that way. If I eat grains or starches my body certainly lets me know.
I agree, stick mostly Paleo or Primal (Mark Sisson) IMO Primal is easier to follow.
You may be tired the first few days, however energy levels will return. I did a 9 mile run / hike over the weekend, had great energy, never had the need to eat. For breakfast I think I had 3 eggs and a tiny steak.
It's easiest to do if you buy some healthy snack foods to always have around. Nuts , like almonds / walnuts etc work great. Grab those instead of chips bread, whatever etc. If you have eggs and a small steak (or avocado) for breakfast, nuts as a snack, steak / fish or pork chops for dinner with some veggies you are good to go as long as you avoid the drinks. It's not just beer, all alcohol has high calories (trust me I've tried to get that more paleo and it just isn't). Red wine is probably as good as it gets.
It is really hard to eat out in this fashion, as every eating establishment provides you plenty of carbs, and while you are having your burger sans bread and your buddies are having huckleberry pie ala mode .. it stinks.
If you have chickens though or are willing to just use lots of egg yokes, you can make a frozen custard that is similar to vanilla ice cream with a lot less sugar that is pretty darn tasty.
I also think once you do this sort of diet and get over the initial lull in energy, your workouts and recovery will be much better. One other side benefit, is backpacking you can take far less food by weight, and probably eat a lot less since your body is now used to using fat for energy.
Bottom line: if you want to lose weight there's only one way to do it...you need to expend more calories than you consume. There's no other way. You can eat whatever you want. You can consume 5000 calories a day as long as you're burning 5500. I've lost 30 lbs since last memorial day and have never really stopped eating the foods I like or stopped drinking beer. But I did stop eating as much of them! And I started busting my butt in the gym and on the trails. You'll hear all kinds of theories as to what combination of carbs/proteins/fats are best...but people always fail to consider that every person reacts differently to different types of foods. Personally, I would NEVER cut out carbs and would never recommend that anybody else do so. Carbs are simply fuel for the body. If you're as active as you say you are, then your body absolutely needs carbohydrates. Cut out simple sugars, yes, of course. Complex carbohydrates such as whole grains, beans, brown rice, etc? No way.
I respectfully disagree. I'm very active, and can do so without carbs for fuel as long as I don't go above a certain threshold.
IMO, carbs are not something that is required. Did the hunter gatherer have access to carbs year around ? Take a look at winter in most areas, take a look at various native tribes. They survived without them as it just was not available. Carbs are made available by the local grocery, and are really only available naturally seasonal.
Yes you can loose weight by eating whatever you want in moderation, but I respectfully disagree on the need for carbs, or that they even make me feel good. I don't look at eating paleo style as a diet, I look at it as eating like a king.
Bottom line: if you want to lose weight there's only one way to do it...you need to expend more calories than you consume. There's no other way. You can eat whatever you want. You can consume 5000 calories a day as long as you're burning 5500.
You're flat out wrong, plain and simple. The odds are overwhelming you be back at your old weight a year from now. The first minor injury and you'll be storing fat like gangbusters again. But don't take my word for it, how 'bout that of an endocrinologist:
The fact that you HAVE to workout testifies to the fact your diet was/is at fault. Your routine is analagous to having a slow leak in a tire and continually stopping to put air into it. I certainly reccomend that you exercise, but you should not HAVE to do so to maintain a normal weight.
I respectfully disagree. I'm very active, and can do so without carbs for fuel as long as I don't go above a certain threshold.
IMO, carbs are not something that is required. Did the hunter gatherer have access to carbs year around ? Take a look at winter in most areas, take a look at various native tribes. They survived without them as it just was not available. Carbs are made available by the local grocery, and are really only available naturally seasonal.
Yes you can loose weight by eating whatever you want in moderation, but I respectfully disagree on the need for carbs, or that they even make me feel good. I don't look at eating paleo style as a diet, I look at it as eating like a king.
Bottom line: if you want to lose weight there's only one way to do it...you need to expend more calories than you consume. There's no other way. You can eat whatever you want. You can consume 5000 calories a day as long as you're burning 5500.
You're flat out wrong, plain and simple. The odds are overwhelming you be back at your old weight a year from now. The first minor injury and you'll be storing fat like gangbusters again. But don't take my word for it, how 'bout that of an endocrinologist:
The fact that you HAVE to workout testifies to the fact your diet was/is at fault. Your routine is analagous to having a slow leak in a tire and continually stopping to put air into it. I certainly reccomend that you exercise, but you should not HAVE to do so to maintain a normal weight.
No, YOU are flat out wrong. It's pure science. If you take in more calories than you expend you will gain weight. This isn't debatable.
And you're also wrong about me gaining weight if I have a small injury. I've had numerous small injuries. Some have made me quit running for a time...so I lifted more. Some have made me stop lifting...so I ran more. Or I lifted differently. But I continued to LOSE weight because I burned more calories through exercise than I consumed, one way or another.
To your other point, no I didn't have to work out to maintain my weight or even to lose weight. If I wanted to maintain, I could have simply eaten only what I expended. If I wanted to continue to lose weight WITHOUT exercise I could have simply cut calories from my diet.
The one point you made that is actually correct is that my diet WAS ABSOLUTELY at fault for the shape I was in. Now, I'm simply back in the shape that I'm accustomed to being in.
Bottom line: if you want to lose weight there's only one way to do it...you need to expend more calories than you consume. There's no other way. You can eat whatever you want. You can consume 5000 calories a day as long as you're burning 5500.
You're flat out wrong, plain and simple.
No. You are.
If you take in less calories than you burn you will lose weight every time and all the time until you reverse the trend.
Your argument about injuries is false because, if he still took in less than he burned (reduce intake and reduced burn) he'd STILL lose weight.
Good thread and timely for me as well. My weight has been creeping up over the last couple of years...i blame it on a third shift lifestyle and general love of food. Definetly been trying to cut out the junk recently and can feel the difference.
Bud 55 ain't that bad when you get used to it...lol
Bottom line: if you want to lose weight there's only one way to do it...you need to expend more calories than you consume. There's no other way. You can eat whatever you want. You can consume 5000 calories a day as long as you're burning 5500.
You're flat out wrong, plain and simple.
No. You are.
If you take in less calories than you burn you will lose weight every time and all the time until you reverse the trend.
Your argument about injuries is false because, if he still took in less than he burned (reduce intake and reduced burn) he'd STILL lose weight.
This is called engineering (or physics).
Get some!
You labor under a patently false assumption David. Either you didn't watch the link I posted or you didn't understand it. WHAT you eat largely determines your metabolism. Overconsumption of simple carbohydrates will utterly shut down fat burning in the typical person. If you plow four acres behind a mule every day, no, you won't be fat, even though you ate four of five of Mom's cathead biscuits with a huge meal at lunch, when you get back behind the plow, even though that is way more than needed to replace muscle glycogen a bunch of those calories WILL be stored as fat. Stay behind the plow and a man conditioned to it will start burning that stored fat later in the day. Now, just how healthy do you think plowing a mule 11-12 hrs/day is? Ever heard of repetitive use injuries?
Those who refuse to believe this are doomed to a task not unlike that of Sissyphus attemping to roll the rock uphill in Dante's Inferno. Unlike Sissyphus though, most of 'em ain't up to the task.
Before you point to some ever-present exception to this ( we all know one or two). Barry Sears has documented that about 25% of the US population has a "muted" insulin response to carbs. These are the folks who don't get fat from a high carb diet. The bad new is they still get cancer and heart disease from it.
This "calories-in, calories-out" arguement doesn't comport with reality. The reality is, calories-in is hormonally controlled/influenced, not only the basic Leptin-Ghrelin axis that controls hunger, but also buy poorly understood chemical interlopers like endocanabinoids (anybody wanna get high?) Guess where else your brain can get this stuff? If you guessed junk food, you'd be correct. The calories-out end of it is quite finite, not without limitation, and is also hormonally mediated. Overtrain and guess what happens? You get elevated cortisol? What does that cause? Try epic weight gain.
Your engineering premise applies to engineering, not human physiology.
These three vids total over an hour but they are well worth your time.
I get all the part about what you eat being a significant part of how your metabolism works. I'm all about that. I eat 75% unprocessed foods, 20% processed, and about 5% or less meat, and that's all wild game.
However, if you take in 5K calories and burn 5.5K, you'll lose weight. It doesn't matter what your metabolism does. That's a straight energy balance.
Bottom line: if you want to lose weight there's only one way to do it...you need to expend more calories than you consume. There's no other way. You can eat whatever you want. You can consume 5000 calories a day as long as you're burning 5500.
You're flat out wrong, plain and simple.
No. You are.
If you take in less calories than you burn you will lose weight every time and all the time until you reverse the trend.
Your argument about injuries is false because, if he still took in less than he burned (reduce intake and reduced burn) he'd STILL lose weight.
This is called engineering (or physics).
Get some!
You labor under a patently false assumption David. Either you didn't watch the link I posted or you didn't understand it. WHAT you eat largely determines your metabolism. Overconsumption of simple carbohydrates will utterly shut down fat burning in the typical person. If you plow four acres behind a mule every day, no, you won't be fat, even though you ate four of five of Mom's cathead biscuits with a huge meal at lunch, when you get back behind the plow, even though that is way more than needed to replace muscle glycogen a bunch of those calories WILL be stored as fat. Stay behind the plow and a man conditioned to it will start burning that stored fat later in the day. Now, just how healthy do you think plowing a mule 11-12 hrs/day is? Ever heard of repetitive use injuries?
Those who refuse to believe this are doomed to a task not unlike that of Sissyphus attemping to roll the rock uphill in Dante's Inferno. Unlike Sissyphus though, most of 'em ain't up to the task.
Before you point to some ever-present exception to this ( we all know one or two). Barry Sears has documented that about 25% of the US population has a "muted" insulin response to carbs. These are the folks who don't get fat from a high carb diet. The bad new is they still get cancer and heart disease from it.
This "calories-in, calories-out" arguement doesn't comport with reality. The reality is, calories-in is hormonally controlled/influenced, not only the basic Leptin-Ghrelin axis that controls hunger, but also buy poorly understood chemical interlopers like endocanabinoids (anybody wanna get high?) Guess where else your brain can get this stuff? If you guessed junk food, you'd be correct. The calories-out end of it is quite finite, not without limitation, and is also hormonally mediated. Overtrain and guess what happens? You get elevated cortisol? What does that cause? Try epic weight gain.
Your engineering premise applies to engineering, not human physiology.
These three vids total over an hour but they are well worth your time.
Also I encourage you to read some of the writings of Gary Taubes. There are several lectures by him on Youtube.
I'm not strongly for or against one method here. I will say this though, when I was burning more calories than I was eating, I was in good shape. I was hungry all the time. And you know what, as soon as I started eating a little more, or exercising less, I gained all the weight back.
I bought "The Smarter Science of Slim" a couple weeks ago, read it,and it made sense to me. It's basically what you've been saying, about lowering your set point, increasing metabolism, etc etc. I can only give it a shot I guess, as counting calories and exercising more didn't work for me. I changed jobs and that had a lot to do with a change in habits and gaining weight back.
I say you're both right! IF you take in less calories than you actually burn, you will lose weight. BUT, taking in those calories as STARCHY carbohydrates is not the same as taking in protein/fat/veggies/fruits, and will affect the calories you burn. The simple bottom line in my book is that counting calories is for the birds, because you can't know when and how exactly your body is burning them, not to mention the questionable at best calorie estimates for exercising.
You can just lose weight eating whatever you want, but if you want to use a healthy diet in combination with exercise in order to build/maintain muscle mass, you're better off eating good foods like meat and veggies, and avoiding starches and sugars. Even if they're the gimmicky "whole grains". Maximal performance and just losing weight are two different things.
Easiest way for me to lose weight is the p90x phase 1 diet.
Get 50% of your calories from protein, 30% from Carb, and 20% from fat. That's 1 serving of carb a day, and a ton of lean protein. Some days I'm pushing over 200gr of protein I get from salmon, halibut, and deer meat. I use no supplements. I use myfitnesspal.com to track my percentages. I only do it a week or two at a time though.
The only way you will ever get fit is to give up whiskey. Forever!
Seriously, I go much toward the Paleo or Primal type diets as well. Lots of fresh raw or lightly cooked veggies, fruits in moderation, plenty of high quality protein (mostly elk or deer for me) nuts and grains in strict moderation.
Every so often, I'll eat a big hunk of bread and I don't feel as well or have as much energy.
Bottom line: if you want to lose weight there's only one way to do it...you need to expend more calories than you consume. There's no other way. You can eat whatever you want. You can consume 5000 calories a day as long as you're burning 5500.
You're flat out wrong, plain and simple.
No. You are.
If you take in less calories than you burn you will lose weight every time and all the time until you reverse the trend.
Your argument about injuries is false because, if he still took in less than he burned (reduce intake and reduced burn) he'd STILL lose weight.
This is called engineering (or physics).
Get some!
You labor under a patently false assumption David. Either you didn't watch the link I posted or you didn't understand it. WHAT you eat largely determines your metabolism. Overconsumption of simple carbohydrates will utterly shut down fat burning in the typical person. If you plow four acres behind a mule every day, no, you won't be fat, even though you ate four of five of Mom's cathead biscuits with a huge meal at lunch, when you get back behind the plow, even though that is way more than needed to replace muscle glycogen a bunch of those calories WILL be stored as fat. Stay behind the plow and a man conditioned to it will start burning that stored fat later in the day. Now, just how healthy do you think plowing a mule 11-12 hrs/day is? Ever heard of repetitive use injuries?
Those who refuse to believe this are doomed to a task not unlike that of Sissyphus attemping to roll the rock uphill in Dante's Inferno. Unlike Sissyphus though, most of 'em ain't up to the task.
Before you point to some ever-present exception to this ( we all know one or two). Barry Sears has documented that about 25% of the US population has a "muted" insulin response to carbs. These are the folks who don't get fat from a high carb diet. The bad new is they still get cancer and heart disease from it.
This "calories-in, calories-out" arguement doesn't comport with reality. The reality is, calories-in is hormonally controlled/influenced, not only the basic Leptin-Ghrelin axis that controls hunger, but also buy poorly understood chemical interlopers like endocanabinoids (anybody wanna get high?) Guess where else your brain can get this stuff? If you guessed junk food, you'd be correct. The calories-out end of it is quite finite, not without limitation, and is also hormonally mediated. Overtrain and guess what happens? You get elevated cortisol? What does that cause? Try epic weight gain.
Your engineering premise applies to engineering, not human physiology.
These three vids total over an hour but they are well worth your time.
Also I encourage you to read some of the writings of Gary Taubes. There are several lectures by him on Youtube.
Doesn't Sears' Zone Diet recommend getting 35-45% of your calories from carbohydrates? And you mention eating the right foods to increase your metabolism? Why would you want to increase your metabolism? To burn more calories! You also mention simple carbohydrates. I don't think anyone here has recommended simple carbs...but rather complex carbs. I think you're agreeing with me without even knowing it.
Pretty much every diet is some amount "gimmick" if you ask me, not that anyone did. I just eat a balanced diet of 40-45% carbs (mostly complex as you get less "sugar high"), 30-35% protein, 20-25% fat. I try to limit any meal to 600cal (target ~500), healthy snacks between breakfast and lunch, and then between lunch and dinner. By adjusting total caloric intake, I can make my weight go up or down at will (intake more calories than you burn (or pass along, don't forget, everyone's body is also not the same efficiency), you gain weight - pure and simple, called the Law of Conservation of Energy). I also workout (cardio and resistance) 3-4 times per week. I'm 40, BP is 110/70, cholesterol was 120-something last time it was checked, etc., etc. I feel good, have strength, energy, etc., so it works for me.
Honestly, I think you can make any diet work for you, pure and simple. Find one that you can make work for you and stick to it. And adjust as things change (injury, more physical activity, etc.).
To lighten things up a little, I used to work for a guy in his mid-40's, on the thin side, that ate like a horse. Asked him one time how he never gained weight, he just shrugged and said "the more I eat, the more I $hit, that's all" . . .
I agree, I just eat a balanced diet as well. Mostly I just watch the type of food I put in my body rather than worry about percentages of fat/protein/carbs. I rarely eat sweets or junk food. I drink a coke about once a year. I love good beer though, I think someone else mentioned IPA and I would have to concur. Drinking a Double Haul as I write this! I also take a whey protein supplement for an additional 30g of protein daily immediately after my workout. Fad diets don't work. Epidemiologist studies have shows that within a year 70% of dieters gained back 80% of their lost weight (but with less Lean Body Mass than they had pre-diet) and w/in 2 years 98% had gained back 100% of lost weight and 70% were at least 15% heavier. The key to losing weight is doing something that is sustainable and combining it with exercise (at least 300 min/week of moderate excercise...which could be as simple as combinations of brisk walking, raking the lawn, etc...).
To get in good shape fast you gotta eat every 2.5 to 3hrs. A good protein source such as fish, chicken, turkey or lean red meat with 1cup to 1.5 cups of brown rice and some steamed veggies one the side, walk for 45 minutes everyday. Lift weights 3 times a week. For breakfast though if you can eat the above start with 8-10 egg whites with 1 cup to 1.5 cups of cream of wheat or rice and your good. As you progress with your walking start taking your backpack and start adding a little weight to it in small increases each week. Also avoid any all sugars, breads, alcohol and fried foods. Add a littl avocado to about 3 of your meals and take a good multi vit-min supplement and drink plenty of water all day.
Doesn't Sears' Zone Diet recommend getting 35-45% of your calories from carbohydrates? And you mention eating the right foods to increase your metabolism? Why would you want to increase your metabolism? To burn more calories! You also mention simple carbohydrates. I don't think anyone here has recommended simple carbs...but rather complex carbs. I think you're agreeing with me without even knowing it.
Sears' Zone Diet is a 30/30/40 protein,fat,carbs. He says it must be fairly precise, as in each meal or snack must achieve this macronutrient split. If you dabble with grains, you must (unless you are part of the lucky 25%) adhere to this or you'll maintain high insulin levels, which starts a cascade of untoward effects typically leading to obesity, then diabetes and heart disease.
Sears' whole premise is he doesn't believe most folks are willing to give up certain foods, and he's right for the most part. That's why he markets a lot of "snacks" like bagels, cookies and the like that meet Zone macronutrient parameters. These are lab tested not to jack up insulin levels. That way you can have your "crack" on occasion. If you read his books you'll discover all sorts of recipes and snacks that meet this, IE a beer and two ounces of chicken, or a glass of wine and a one-inch cube of cheese. He says certain foods have to be treated like drugs because they have an immediate drug-like effect on your body.
The Paleo concept, if you've got your portions properly sized and your meals/snacks properly spaced out, theoretically doesn't have to be as precise because the carbs you are consuming, in the form of veggies, are a lot lower on the glycemic index and cause insulin levels to rise much more slowly.
So basically, if you eat the wrong foods, you'll produce too much insulin. If you overeat (at one sitting) of the proper foods, you'll still make too much insulin. This is why eating once or twice a day is a bad idea for most folks.
So, who's right? I don't know, so I do both. For lunch I had asparagus, a six oz hunk of salmon, and a small serving of mixed fruit. That's paleo all the way. I can't manage to eat like that four or five meals/day but I shoot for at least two. I have a protein shake (Cytogainer) that has complex carbs (Zone parameters) and I eat enough almonds to get my 30% fat. I have a couple of paleo breakfasts (eggs/fruit) but I occasionally eat Zone pancakes (made with cottage cheese for protein) Even fast food is doable on occasion. Chick Filet's grilled chicken sandwich Zones. Skip the fries(you learn pretty quick that french fries were something you USED to eat)
Even fast food is doable on occasion. Chick Filet's grilled chicken sandwich Zones. Skip the fries(you learn pretty quick that french fries were something you USED to eat)
Yep! Taco Bell (fresca menu), Chickfila and Chipotle are my "new" favorite fast foods as you can eat fairly healthy at any of these pretty easily. I did have the fried Chickfila sandwich for dinner, but got it on wheat w/ no butter on the bun, with a side salad and light Italian dressing (no croutons) - under 600 calories even though I splurged on the fried chicken (usually do the grilled and then it's less than 500 calories, but dang that fried chicken there is soooo good jsut have to give in to temptation and treat myself sometimes).
Paleo and Primal make it pretty darn easy, no counting needed. Perhaps that is why I prefer it, I don't have to count, or rely on portion control
Yup, like I said, gotta find the one that works for YOU - for me (I'm an engineer and overall pretty ANALytical), the counting/tracking in a spreadsheet/etc. just comes natural , so it works for me! And after a while, I have a pretty good idea what I eat in any day without entering into a spreadsheet, etc. (after tracking the stuff for a couple of years).
I thought I'd post this here and get some of the fitness guru's take on it.
It's definately where I'm lacking in my routine. Truthfully I haven't cared. I like to eat food and drink beer, and I figure thats the upside of working out 4 days a week.
But, last two trips to the doc and chiropractor, and they both tell me if I drop another 10 Lbs to 185 (yeah I already lost ten since last summer) that my lower back and left knee wouldn't bother me as much.
I'm pretty active really, and busting ass at a manual labor job 10 hours a day certainly doesn't hurt what I can eat.
I'm kind of curious what all advice the hive mind has to offer?
I'm 3 weeks into a workout program, and I have some of the same low back and knee issues. I'm doing the high protein low carb diet, and it is working really well for me.
The biggest difference in this approach compared to a low cal/low fat diet is that I'm not constantly hungry. You are encouraged to eat a significant amount of calories to avoid burnout in the workouts. It's working, and I'm convinced.
Beer is a tough one, and I can't stand the Michelob ultra or Bud 55. I've cut down my drinking to just a couple on the weekend, and I switched to Jack Daniels and diet coke.
This is a great thread. It's true that if you take in less calories than you use, you'll lose weight. But by choosing what calories you take in, you can make the process way more efficient. I've had a lot of nutrition training. A LOT. And cutting way down on carbs will drop the weight faster than anything. This is nutrition made as simply as I can... Carbs break down into glucose. Insulin brings the glucose into the cell for fuel. If your cells don't need the fuel, your liver will store it and convert excess into fat. If your cells need fuel, and there's not enough glucose in the blood, your liver will release some. If your liver is low on storage, your body will convert your protein (muscle) into glucose. If you are using your muscles strenuously regularly (exercise) your body will convert fat into glucose instead. So, drop them carbs! Fruits have carbs, but they also have fiber and water so you don't take in as many carbs with fruits as you do grain. I've started increasing my fiber and protein, and decreasing carbs along with hiking and other forms of exercise. I can tell a huge difference just from January to now.
Well, 7 years ago, I was a smoker and chewed Copenhagen, drank like a fish and smoked as much weed as I could afford. Obviously I cared little about my diet, and was just under 250.
Then I started working 12 hour days in the local mill, 6 days a week. We call it the Plum Creek Crash Diet. I dropped down to 220 pretty quick. Didn't change anything really except I was too busy to eat, and trapped in a box all day where I was expected to pass random drug tests.
3 years into mill life, I had quit smoking and chewed more Copenhagen. I was also tired of [bleep] hurting, and started talking to a lot of guys who were workout junkies.
So for the last 4 years, I've worked out 3-4 days a week, cardio and resistance training. I take the weights more serious these days, and don't stick with one workout too long. Next week I'm back to pyramids for my "lower" groups and I'll be doing some serious negatives on chest and triceps... This got me down to a fairly toned 210, with a slight beer gut...
Then last summer, I did nothing but run, play out in the woods, and do the paleo diet on workdays (except my old trainer said pasta was a good addition to it,) and cheated like hell on the weekends. No trips to the gym... Which means I cut the Whey protein to nothing. I figured I got fatter, at least I moved weight around and looked heavier. I was shocked when I got back to the gym a month ago and was 196. Now that I'm back in the gym, my diet went to [bleep] again, and now I'm just treading water.
On a side note... Maybe I'm high. But with my mill job, and all the years I studied JuJitsu and shot recurves with limbs way too heavy for a guy with AC seperations. Everytime I reduce my carbs substantially, all my soft tissue injuries seem to flare up??
Another question... How does a guy figure out what his caloric intake SHOULD be? I'd say its a safe bet I'm 3000-4000 calories a day just to stay where I'm at.
So far, this topic went viral for the BP forums Lots of good info and debate so far.
There are lots of calculators online (webmd for example) that will provide you a good starting point for your caloric req't to maintain. After that, the best way I've found (for me) was to seriously track my caloric intake along with weighing in daily (same time/routine - I get up in the am, take a leak and get on the scale before the shower, so it's the same reference point daily). It'll take a while (due to weight fluctuations, etc.), but, from your weight gain/loss and caloric intake, you can back calculate approx. what it takes.
I'm in an office 10hrs a day, 5 days a week (I do get up and walk around a bit at least hourly, but nothing real physical). I target 4 trips to the gym weekly (mix of cardio and resistance for 1+hrs each trip). I weigh around 195lbs (have some love handles, but better shape than 60-70% of 40yr olds I'd guess). My daily caloric requirement to maintain my weight is about 2500-2800 calories a day depending on how I'm doing in the gym, other weekend activities, etc.
Keep in mind that resistance training will increase your metabolic rate slightly as well. Each new lb of muscle will increase your resting metabolic rate by about 20-70 kcal/day. So add 5 lbs of muscle and you'll burn up to 350 extra calories just sitting around doing nothing!
You guys are something else. Has anyone ever read or followed the Federal Food Guidelines ? How about following the UC Berkeley Wellness Letter ? The UCB Wellness Letter is published to get the truth out because there is so much bad information out there about health and nutritiion. Much of that is the bad information concerning dieting, lossing weight by straving oneself. Both of them are based on the finding that nobody except really serious atheltes needs any more than 1 gram of protein for each 7 lbs. of body weight. Top athletes need only slightly more. What does the body do with the extra protein ? If not burned as fuel, the extra is converted to fat. BTW, about fat, the body burns both fat and glucose all the time except when it's starved for oxygen. Fat cannot be converted to glucose. If the body runs low on glucse, it converts the proteins floating around in the blood stream to glucose. When what little is there is consumed, the body then starts breaking down muscle tissue and converting that to glucose. A couple of more things. There is not one iota of evidence that complex carbs are bad for you. None. The healiest societies on earth are those that base their diets on the whole grains, not on meat and fat like north americans do. In fact, the body's primary fuel is glucose. Extra glucose in the blood stream is converted to glycogen and is stored in the liver as well as the muscles. The trouble with glucose and glycogen is that the body can only store a limited quanity of it. About 1200-1400 calories for most of us. So the body needs to burn fat as well to extend one's energy level. While the body can turn extra glucose into fat, it almost never does. That's because we use so much of it. To get even 50% of your calories from complex carbs like potatoes on a 2400 calorie diet, that would mean you'd have to eat 12 medium size potatoes every day. Ever try that ? I can't. And I've tried. Even if you could, you'd never reach your body's storage capacity because you are consuming what you ate at the last meal too fast. BYW, it is possible to loose fat, and not the much denser muscle tissue by simply reducing one's fat intake and eating alot more complex carbs. The trouble is that you'd only loose about 2 lbs. a month. Another point is that most who are down on carbs don't understand the huge difference between the value of complex carbs and the many problems associated with simple carbs, the sugars. Those BTW are advised against in the Federal Food Guidlines. So have fun with your diets guys. When you get tried of them, try the Federal Food Guidelines. It's made a world of difference for me. E
If the feds were so right, how come they keep changing them ?
I am having Moose(thanks Barry Whitehill), Swiss Chard and Mushrooms for lunch as I write this. I don't consider that lunch a diet, a restriction or anything else that might be less than favorable.
FWIW, almost everyone I know that has ever cut out the grains for any amount of time regrets eating them later. I still eat them sometimes, but they just don't agree with me anymore and I always regret it after the fact, nit because of guilt but because of how I feel.
As far as carbs, I simply do not find myself needing them. I had one trail run a couple years ago I bonked bad. Since then, I've almost always carried a backup GU of some sort on long days, along with my assortment of nuts and jerky. The GU is getting old. I can go out with buddies that need to refuel every hour, I don't even always bust into my food stash. For me, it flat out works.
Starting today, I'm on the Primal Diet, as closely as I can adhere to it working 2nd shift (Brad knows my pain)
I think that come weekends when I usually cheat like hell, I'll stay away from manufactured junk food, and stay away from sugars in any drinks. EdT was the reason I went back to sugar and corn syrup in beverages. I figured they were less damage than aspartame
The only supplements in my diet are about 30 grams of whey protein post workout, and it will stay that way... Although everybody tells me creatine is something I should use as well??
You guys are something else. Has anyone ever read or followed the Federal Food Guidelines ? How about following the UC Berkeley Wellness Letter ? The UCB Wellness Letter is published to get the truth out because there is so much bad information out there about health and nutritiion. Much of that is the bad information concerning dieting, lossing weight by straving oneself. Both of them are based on the finding that nobody except really serious atheltes needs any more than 1 gram of protein for each 7 lbs. of body weight. Top athletes need only slightly more. What does the body do with the extra protein ? If not burned as fuel, the extra is converted to fat. BTW, about fat, the body burns both fat and glucose all the time except when it's starved for oxygen. Fat cannot be converted to glucose. If the body runs low on glucse, it converts the proteins floating around in the blood stream to glucose. When what little is there is consumed, the body then starts breaking down muscle tissue and converting that to glucose. A couple of more things. There is not one iota of evidence that complex carbs are bad for you. None. The healiest societies on earth are those that base their diets on the whole grains, not on meat and fat like north americans do. In fact, the body's primary fuel is glucose. Extra glucose in the blood stream is converted to glycogen and is stored in the liver as well as the muscles. The trouble with glucose and glycogen is that the body can only store a limited quanity of it. About 1200-1400 calories for most of us. So the body needs to burn fat as well to extend one's energy level. While the body can turn extra glucose into fat, it almost never does. That's because we use so much of it. To get even 50% of your calories from complex carbs like potatoes on a 2400 calorie diet, that would mean you'd have to eat 12 medium size potatoes every day. Ever try that ? I can't. And I've tried. Even if you could, you'd never reach your body's storage capacity because you are consuming what you ate at the last meal too fast. BYW, it is possible to loose fat, and not the much denser muscle tissue by simply reducing one's fat intake and eating alot more complex carbs. The trouble is that you'd only loose about 2 lbs. a month. Another point is that most who are down on carbs don't understand the huge difference between the value of complex carbs and the many problems associated with simple carbs, the sugars. Those BTW are advised against in the Federal Food Guidlines. So have fun with your diets guys. When you get tried of them, try the Federal Food Guidelines. It's made a world of difference for me. E
The food guidlines have changed a lot. Hmm I wonder why.
Complex carbs are great as long as they are mainly in the form of vegetables and limited fruits. Grains not so much.
If E is correct, man would never have evolved, he just would have died due to a lack of grain.
You guys are something else. Has anyone ever read or followed the Federal Food Guidelines ? How about following the UC Berkeley Wellness Letter ? The UCB Wellness Letter is published to get the truth out because there is so much bad information out there about health and nutritiion. Much of that is the bad information concerning dieting, lossing weight by straving oneself. Both of them are based on the finding that nobody except really serious atheltes needs any more than 1 gram of protein for each 7 lbs. of body weight. Top athletes need only slightly more. What does the body do with the extra protein ? If not burned as fuel, the extra is converted to fat. BTW, about fat, the body burns both fat and glucose all the time except when it's starved for oxygen. Fat cannot be converted to glucose. If the body runs low on glucse, it converts the proteins floating around in the blood stream to glucose. When what little is there is consumed, the body then starts breaking down muscle tissue and converting that to glucose. A couple of more things. There is not one iota of evidence that complex carbs are bad for you. None. The healiest societies on earth are those that base their diets on the whole grains, not on meat and fat like north americans do. In fact, the body's primary fuel is glucose. Extra glucose in the blood stream is converted to glycogen and is stored in the liver as well as the muscles. The trouble with glucose and glycogen is that the body can only store a limited quanity of it. About 1200-1400 calories for most of us. So the body needs to burn fat as well to extend one's energy level. While the body can turn extra glucose into fat, it almost never does. That's because we use so much of it. To get even 50% of your calories from complex carbs like potatoes on a 2400 calorie diet, that would mean you'd have to eat 12 medium size potatoes every day. Ever try that ? I can't. And I've tried. Even if you could, you'd never reach your body's storage capacity because you are consuming what you ate at the last meal too fast. BYW, it is possible to loose fat, and not the much denser muscle tissue by simply reducing one's fat intake and eating alot more complex carbs. The trouble is that you'd only loose about 2 lbs. a month. Another point is that most who are down on carbs don't understand the huge difference between the value of complex carbs and the many problems associated with simple carbs, the sugars. Those BTW are advised against in the Federal Food Guidlines. So have fun with your diets guys. When you get tried of them, try the Federal Food Guidelines. It's made a world of difference for me. E
My sister asked me to watch the documentary on Netflix called "Forks over Knives", which I did. Then watched another video about the Engine2diet. I thought she was a fanatic until I tried it for 6 weeks...
My LDL dropped 42 pts to 65, My total choloesterol is 150, never had it below 200 before, my Blood pressure is now 102/78, never had the high one under 130...
I have lost 10 lbs and have lots of energy.
I eat lots of whole grains, fruits and veggies, and stay away from fat, meat, eggs, dairy, processed refined white bread, rice, stuff like that. No more constipation either.
We drink soy milk in place of dairy milk.
Google Rip's Big Bowl...that's what I eat every morning.
Anyway, this is working for me, and I am enjoying it. not trying to convince anybody, nor do I have a vested interest in Engine2diet.com.
The Govt/Feds is the last place I would look for nutritional advice.
Ive been living the Paleo/Primal lifestyle now for just over a month. Ive lost 13lbs and feel amazing. I have endless energy and dont feel tired after meals anymore. I dont get irritated when Im hungry and can go 16-18 hrs without feeling hungry. I feel so good that I dont see myself ever eating grains and processed foods again.
For those interested I would suggest picking up these 3 books and reading them.
"The Primal Blueprint" by Mark Sisson "Primal Body, Primal Mind" by Nora Gedgaudas "The New Evolution Diet" by Authur De Vany
For those with an extra 15 minutes I would recommend watching this TED talk by Dr. Terry Wahls.
Oh, and make sure to go out of your way to avoid getting strong.
Why?
Why? So that you don't die a weak little man in a nursing home one day. If you aren't working fairly hard to prevent it you are losing a pound or so of muscle every year.
Oh, and make sure to go out of your way to avoid getting strong.
Why?
Why? So that you don't die a weak little man in a nursing home one day. If you aren't working fairly hard to prevent it you are losing a pound or so of muscle every year.
Yes, but he said "AVOID getting strong" . . . not sure what he meant by that.
If you wait around long enough and the thread drifts to useful strength training (and accompanying weight gain), you'll get anecdotal stories from the campfire rocky mountain contingent regarding the futility of strength training as it relates to hunting.
Originally Posted by TXRam
Originally Posted by Take_a_knee
Originally Posted by KCBighorn
Originally Posted by Vek
Oh, and make sure to go out of your way to avoid getting strong.
Why?
Why? So that you don't die a weak little man in a nursing home one day. If you aren't working fairly hard to prevent it you are losing a pound or so of muscle every year.
Yes, but he said "AVOID getting strong" . . . not sure what he meant by that.
The Federal Food Guidelines have been refined a bit, but they are still a long way from our usual eating habits. To give you an example, most of us get 43% of our calories from fat, and 30-40% from proteins. And we eat no where near the 5-7 fruits and vegetables that the FFG's recommend. The Federal Food Guidelines recommend 50% or more of our calories from complex carbs, which is down a bit from the 60% originally suggested and 35% or less from fats, which is up from the 20% of the original guidelines. Why ? Because, unless you want to loose weight, it isn't necessary to go that low. Another reason is that it's very difficult to eat that much in complex carbs. But that is along way from saying it is bad advice or nonsense. The real problem is that nobody will even try them. I have. And still do. Not perfectly, but pretty close. I rarely get even a head cold anymore. My blood pressure and all my test are excellent. My resting pulse is about 52-55. My docor tells me I'm the heathiest person he knows in my age bracket. I'll be 68 in a few days. So do carrying on guys. I'm in better physical condition, that means I can work the mountains longer and harder than I've ever been able to. Not so much because of my workout routines, but because of how I eat. We are, after all, what we eat. E
I propose that there is zero need to do any (ANY) focused cardiovascular training in preparation for even the meanest mountain hunt.
Reasoning: Assuming you have a job and therefore limited training time, by the time one's feet and lower legs are trained tough enough to survive the big hunt on steep ground, the cardio part of the equation has addressed itself.
I propose that there is zero need to do any (ANY) focused cardiovascular training in preparation for even the meanest mountain hunt.
Reasoning: Assuming you have a job and therefore limited training time, by the time one's feet and lower legs are trained tough enough to survive the big hunt on steep ground, the cardio part of the equation has addressed itself.
I wholeheartedly endorse strength training, but I can't buy into zero cardio training. I'll bet you are a big strong guy with a barrel chest (IE HUGE lung capacity). I served with a guy like that in his forties who was 6ft, strong as an ox, and could run two miles in a little over eleven minutes. He didn't run any more than I did and I've never been able to run two miles in under 12min in my life. An MD told the guy that he had at least 20% more lung volume than most his size. That is a genetic gift. Think Lance Armstrong.
I know where you are coming from about the 3 sets of 10 bodybuilder crowd compared to someone doing heavy deads, squats, cleans, and push presses. The latter IS cardio to a great extent and the body building crap isn't. It may be enough cardio for Vek but I doubt if it is for the average guy.
My workout today will be a ladder of kettlebell snatches, seven reps each arm, starting with 10kg going up to 28kg. Five minute water break and 28min on a stepmill. That'll get 'er done.
If you wait around long enough and the thread drifts to useful strength training (and accompanying weight gain), you'll get anecdotal stories from the campfire rocky mountain contingent regarding the futility of strength training as it relates to hunting.
Originally Posted by Vek
Oh, and make sure to go out of your way to avoid getting strong.
Ahhh, gotcha . . . missed the sarcasm in your original post!
I propose that there is zero need to do any (ANY) focused cardiovascular training in preparation for even the meanest mountain hunt.
I've got a pard that does no focused cardio work. He can cover ground like no one else I've been in the hills with. He is religious with his squatting routine however. FWIW...
I've really enjoyed this thread as I'm trying to transform the way I eat. My problem is I'm on the road everyday for lunch. I can control breakfast and dinner easily but I'm at the mercy of eating out for lunch. I was eating subway 3-4 times per week but lots of carbs in that bread. What do you guys on the road do?
I've really enjoyed this thread as I'm trying to transform the way I eat. My problem is I'm on the road everyday for lunch. I can control breakfast and dinner easily but I'm at the mercy of eating out for lunch. I was eating subway 3-4 times per week but lots of carbs in that bread. What do you guys on the road do?
Also, what about beans like pinto and Lima?
I bought some Tupperware bowls and make enough salads for every day of the week and take one to work each day, eat lunch while working and run in the afternoon for my lunch hour.
Just back from a work "retreat" where the junk they were delivering for lunch didn't meet my requirements, so I passed and bought salad fixings at the local store and brown bagged it.
I've done the pack a lunch before and it worked ok. It's the times I want to eat something hot, like chicken breast or left overs, with no way to heat it that makes it difficult.
I'd say your're both right...it depends on your lifestyle. High protein, low carb diets are great for many people who aren't necessarily athletes. You can lose weight quickly this way, and many do, but most gain it back. I've watched it happen dozens of times.
Those who work out on a regular basis will benefit from adding complex carbs to their diet. Not a lot, but some. You'd be very hard pressed to find one elite athlete who stayed away from carbs. Walk into the training room of any professional sports team in the world and you won't find them telling their guys to go all protein. It's all about eating clean.
Obviously, though, not all carbs are equal. The less processing the better.
I've done my share of each type of diet. I'd consider myself an athlete and I train like one for most of the year. I can see a difference in my energy levels when I add in things like steel cut oats, sweet potatoes, brown rice and whole grains. The key is not to eat too much and keep your portions in check.
As hunters and hikers, we need endurance. Carbs are key in that regard. How many good marathoners use the high protein/no carb diet? hint: none. They wouldn't think of it.
The poison here is processed carbs--white flour and sugars in particular. THAT is what you need to eliminate if you're going to eliminate anything. Just think clean. Eat clean. Lots of veggies, fruits, lean protein, the right fats, nuts, eggs and the right carbs. Stay away from anything processed or fried and indulge yourself once in a while.
In summary, if you want to drop a lot of weight fast you can do the pure protein thing. It works. But, 99 times out of 100, that weight will come back again. You have to make lifestyle change to exercise and eat right and you'll be fit as a fiddle.
There are a million articles out there on each side of this fence. Google things like "diet for an athlete" and see what comes up. You can read a bunch of journals and a ton of scientific studies that have seen years and years and years of trial and error in finding the right balance. Another hint: High protein is not it.
Here is an excellent overview of what sugar (fructose in particular) does to our body. An hour and a half long, so you may want to watch it in segments. Great, great stuff.
"Third, losing weight is about expending more calories than you consume. The total amount of calories burned during the day is what counts�not whether you burn fat or carbohydrate. (Otherwise, to lose weight, you could simply sleep more, an activity that burns few total calories, but a high percentage of fat calories.) Your body can pull from its fat stores at any time of day or night to compensate for the calories burned during exercise. Besides, if you consume too many calories from any source�carbohydrate, protein, or fat�your body will store the excess calories as body fat. As for high insulin levels causing people to become overweight, the reverse is more likely to be true. Being overweight drives insulin levels up. People have trouble regulating their blood sugar level and consequently feel hungrier, and thus more likely to overeat. Losing weight through a sound exercise program almost always brings insulin levels back down within the normal range."
10 min of focused sprints once per week will do more for endurance than jogging 4-5 hours a week. couple that with a little slow paced walking and some body weight exercise and your done. no fuss, no muss. 80% is your diet. you cant build a fortress out of [bleep] and expect it to last.
Five minute water break and 28min on a stepmill. That'll get 'er done.
Why "28" minutes? That strikes me as an unusual number. Why not an even half hour?
I'm adding two minutes/week until I get to 30min, then I'll drop to 20min and ratchet up the intensity, and add two minutes each week again. I only do the stepmill once a week. Your body will habituate to whatever workout you do repeatedly. Sometimes that is good, like when you are trying to learn a skill (kettlebell snatches) but not always.
10 min of focused sprints once per week will do more for endurance than jogging 4-5 hours a week.
I would respectfully disagree, but I guess endurance is a relative term. Are you talking one hour ? Sure, but 10 hrs of high output no way. I've been there , done that, seen others try and fail. For high output for a long time, you need to train your body for fuel and some endurance. It can be long fast hikes or whatever, but you have to work hard for a good while.
I agree, that Tabata stuff can help build capacity quickly, but not the adaptations needed for real endurance.
From my time in the mountains, and hunting with others, where I see most folks fail is either mental, cold related or fatigue / endurance related. Sure some could be stronger, but in at least a couple cases, the people were plenty strong and spent a lot of gym time, they were just tired of going up and down hills / ravines etc. Call it what you will
I like these civil discussions. The older I get the less I believe in silver bullets. The diet that works for me may not work for you. I also think that people have very high expectations on losing weight quickly. In most cases the excess weight wasn't gained quickly. It was/is a result of a changing lifestyle. Diets can cause a fast loss but rarely cause a lifestyle change. I believe the most effective permanent weight loss needs the lifestyle change. Losing the weight over a longer period of time while slowly changing bad habits and adding good habits has been the ticket for me. As I get older I need to be maintaining my muscle mass and bone density while keeping in check the extra weight, in the form of fat. I have a reasonable program that includes low impact cardio(walking uphill) and lifting for the larger muscle groups(legs and back). One comment on endurance: I was in and uphill mountain running event in which I walked. Toward the top I caught up with an elderly woman who was doing very well while I was trying to consume the worlds supply of O2. After we reached the top where the time stopped we were walking down the hill. She had been a cross country skier her whole life and had built up and maintained an incredible endurance base. Her main comment to me was "If you want the time you have to do the time" no shortcuts.
I am not going to read this whole thing before I post since I just got back from a ski trip. If someone has not said it already the first thing I would do if you have not had one done is to get a food allergy test done. I found out that I am highly senstive to egg yolks and dariy products. Been on my new diet plan for about 2 weeks now, feel freakin awesome and I am losing about a half pound a day.
Whenever I eat out ( fast food) I always opt for a salad. Subway has salads
Originally Posted by slip_sinker
I've really enjoyed this thread as I'm trying to transform the way I eat. My problem is I'm on the road everyday for lunch. I can control breakfast and dinner easily but I'm at the mercy of eating out for lunch. I was eating subway 3-4 times per week but lots of carbs in that bread. What do you guys on the road do?
If you take in less calories than you burn you will lose weight every time and all the time until you reverse the trend.
It applies to losing weight but most people ignore the fact that losing weight isn't the same as losing fat. You can lose weight by eating only french fries all day but the biggest loss is on muscle mass AND health. Eat right and you can stay full all day and still lose fat.
...they were just tired of going up and down hills / ravines etc. Call it what you will
I could not agree more with you, Kevin! Given a minimal physical preparation, it is all in your mind.
Two years ago I wounded a ram in the Brooks Range of Alaska and spent four and a half days searching for it, climbing every mountain and crossing every saddle way beyond my physical capability just throwing one feet behind the other, following my guide, and repetating to myself with every step "We-will-find-you-We-will-find-you..."
I did not realize how much destroyed until I hit my own bed two days later.
I've already learned more than I'd hoped. That was the whole reason I reached out to this group of guys. What kind of diet to eat is the weak link in my lifestyle.
Fat cannot be converted to glucose. If the body runs low on glucse, it converts the proteins floating around in the blood stream to glucose. When what little is there is consumed, the body then starts breaking down muscle tissue and converting that to glucose.
gluconeogenesis /glu�co�neo�gen�e�sis/ the synthesis of glucose from molecules that are not carbohydrates, such as amino and fatty acids. Dorland's Medical Dictionary for Health Consumers. � 2007 by Saunders, an imprint of Elsevier, Inc. All rights reserved.
Those who work out on a regular basis will benefit from adding complex carbs to their diet. Not a lot, but some. You'd be very hard pressed to find one elite athlete who stayed away from carbs. Walk into the training room of any professional sports team in the world and you won't find them telling their guys to go all protein. It's all about eating clean.
+1. When I'm not traveling I hit the gym every day. I eat my carbs first thing in the morning in the form of a big bowl of whole grain cereal with no sugar like shredded wheat, and work out mid-morning after it's digested.
Then skip the carbs the rest of the day, particularly the few hours after the workout. Works for me. I lost 15 lbs. this winter and now I'm down to fighting weight.
Don't buy the crap about whole grains - eat NO grains.
Bad advice.
Sami,
I'm interested in your line of thinking here - could you provide more evidence or reasoning behind this 2-word rebuttal? Is not eating grains bad advice simply because for your entire life, the federal government has told you it's bad advice? Or do you have any other logic on which you'd care to elaborate, rather than just making a contrary statement?
You would probably benefit, as I did, in watching the TED talk video posted back on page 6 - it's great advice, and no longer a new idea to most. Grains and sugars are detrimental to health. Not that I don't love them! But not eating grains is GREAT advice - without starchy carbohydrates, you're relegated to downing massive quantities of vegetables and fruits. Would anyone on earth (except, apparently, the USDA) care to argue that a piece of bread is better to eat than a salad? Or a bowl of oatmeal better than a kale smoothie???
Well, yes, I can definitively say that a bowl of oatmeal is better than a kale smoothie
Seriously though, I think a lot of it has to do with what you're doing to burn the calories, how many carbs you eat, when you eat them during the day, and whether you can avoid "empty carbs" without much nutritional value like white rice or bleached flour.
No doubt that generally speaking, for most people, getting your carbs from vegetables and fruits is better than getting them from grains. But if you already eat plenty of fruits/vegetables, avoid empty carbs, eat grains sparingly and only whole grains, and burn the calories soon after you eat them, you'll be fine.
I'm interested in your line of thinking here - could you provide more evidence or reasoning behind this 2-word rebuttal? Is not eating grains bad advice simply because for your entire life, the federal government has told you it's bad advice? Or do you have any other logic on which you'd care to elaborate, rather than just making a contrary statement?
It was a short reply because I see a trend in your writing calling complex carbs "gimmicky" etc. Ever tried the "champions diet"? It relies heavily on oatmeal. Two reasons really, it keeps you full for a long time while providing you a steady source of energy without spiking your sugarlevels. Going with low carb diet might get you results in the short run but you are setting yourself up for health issues in the long run.
I am switching jobs to one that doesn't require constant travel. Moving from Texas to Florida so I need to get my old body back. I am currently 5'10", 195lb and around 16-18% bodyfat. On my healthy diet I was around 8% and 185lb. Here's the basics of the diet:
Breakfast:
bowl of oatmeal 6-8 eggwhites
Brunch:
bowl of oatmeal 6-8 eggwhites
Lunch:
Lean cut of protein (meat, fish, etc.) 2-3 small red potatoes or yam steamed vegetables
Snack:
Protein shake
Dinner:
Lean cut of protein (meat, fish, etc.) steamed vegetables
Snack:
Protein shake
Clean diet with the carbs loaded at the start of the day when you need them and burn them during the day. Minimal carbs at night when you prepare yourself for rest. If you can follow that clean diet it will do miracles to your body and does not rely on "gimmicks" like most of the fad diets.
I'm interested in your line of thinking here - could you provide more evidence or reasoning behind this 2-word rebuttal? Is not eating grains bad advice simply because for your entire life, the federal government has told you it's bad advice? Or do you have any other logic on which you'd care to elaborate, rather than just making a contrary statement?
It was a short reply because I see a trend in your writing calling complex carbs "gimmicky" etc. Ever tried the "champions diet"? It relies heavily on oatmeal. Two reasons really, it keeps you full for a long time while providing you a steady source of energy without spiking your sugarlevels. Going with low carb diet might get you results in the short run but you are setting yourself up for health issues in the long run.
I am switching jobs to one that doesn't require constant travel. Moving from Texas to Florida so I need to get my old body back. I am currently 5'10", 195lb and around 16-18% bodyfat. On my healthy diet I was around 8% and 185lb. Here's the basics of the diet:
Breakfast:
bowl of oatmeal 6-8 eggwhites
Brunch:
bowl of oatmeal 6-8 eggwhites
Lunch:
Lean cut of protein (meat, fish, etc.) 2-3 small red potatoes or yam steamed vegetables
Snack:
Protein shake
Dinner:
Lean cut of protein (meat, fish, etc.) steamed vegetables
Snack:
Protein shake
Clean diet with the carbs loaded at the start of the day when you need them and burn them during the day. Minimal carbs at night when you prepare yourself for rest. If you can follow that clean diet it will do miracles to your body and does not rely on "gimmicks" like most of the fad diets.
Sami,
You said that not eating grains was bad advice, then just recommended your ideal diet, which, except for the oatmeal in the morning, is completely grain free. With that exception, looks like a pretty good plan to me! And looks like we agree far more than I expected from your first comment, which is why I asked for more detail. Your ideal diet is almost the same as what I first recommended in this thread, and you say almost the same things I said about mine. Funny how that worked out, there must be something to this...
Though I would eat those egg yolks - Why so many whites and no yolks?
Unless you have lots of muscles, 195 and 5'10" doesn't equal a BMI of 16-19%
Fat %, not BMI. It's an estimate but it is quite close as I learned how to tell over the years. I might not be in the shape I was 5 years ago but I still have muscles left. 20 years of sports and weights is something that doesn't dissappear overnight and I have done some training even with the busy times I have had.
You said that not eating grains was bad advice, then just recommended your ideal diet, which, except for the oatmeal in the morning, is completely grain free.
That's a lot of grain though, and healthy AND big part of the success of the diet relies on it. Your opinion that whole grains are gimmicky leads me to believe you are talking about breads that are "whole grain". If that is the case, there is little truth to it as not all breads are equal. When shopping, ALLWAYS look at the label and keep an eye on fibre content as that is the important indicator which "whole grain" bread is actually good for. I tend to go with dark rye bread, something you would find f.e. in german bakeries. Full of fiber and makes you full unlike french bread made from enriched flour. BIG difference.
Originally Posted by pka45
Though I would eat those egg yolks - Why so many whites and no yolks?
It is a body builders diet to use after they come off from bulking diet so the goal is to minimize fat intake, especially when eating carbs. Same reason why nuts are not recommended on that diet. Nuts (fat) and fruits (sugar) are good otherwise on a healthy diet but not when fat loss is the goal.
I'm just glad the reason you avoid the yolks is not "because they contain too much cholesterol." I don't buy that line of thinking on fat intake either, but that's another story altogether...
I used to eat oatmeal almost everyday, along with other healthy grains, fruit etc. I always was borderline high cholesterol. I started eating paleo /primal style and had usually eggs and steak for breakfast, and when I went to the doctor, he said my blood work was fantastic, and would be difficult to improve upon. Now, it's been a couple years, so I'm not sure if that is still the case, but I know back initially, several others who tried the same thing had the same result at the doctor. For the record, it started out as a crossfit challenge.
Smokepole has added something to this that I've personally found to be of value, and that's when I eat certain things. Every time I've gone completely low carb I've had a devil of a time with recovering from workouts. I don't always stick to it like I should, but I've learned that if I eat complex carbs in the first half of the day (when I work out) and then lean out for the second half of the day, it gives me good energy and recovery for workouts.
Well, it IS so. When you eat a whole banana by itself, you are jacking up blood sugar and insulin.
Metabolically there is no difference between eating white bread and eating table sugar, none. They both get turned to glucose. You get about the same insulin spike from the same caloric content. A banana would be somewhat better because there is a fair amount of fiber with it, but a LOT more sugar than fiber. Every gram of fiber ofsets a gram of carbohydrate. IE, 12gn of carbs with 6gm of fiber equals a metabolic effect of 6gm of carbs (net carbs). I'm not saying to never eat a banana, but don't wolf down one or two of them by itself, sitting in a cubicle and think you've done your body a favor.
Look at the men who participated with Lewis and Clark's expedition 200 years ago. I remember that they often covered more than 20 miles aday carrying or pulling very heavy loads. The did this day after day for months.
For the most part they lived on game they shot, fish they caught and occasionally berries and stuff received from natives.
Not one man sick or lost during that incredible expedition.
Smokepole has added something to this that I've personally found to be of value, and that's when I eat certain things. Every time I've gone completely low carb I've had a devil of a time with recovering from workouts. I don't always stick to it like I should, but I've learned that if I eat complex carbs in the first half of the day (when I work out) and then lean out for the second half of the day, it gives me good energy and recovery for workouts.
That's how I eat, but hadn't thought of it that way before.
Ammino acids are proteins not fats. Glucose and fats are consumed all the time by the body unless it's straved for oxygen. Then it burns glucose only. If the blood sugar level falls, the consumption of fats also decreases. E
BS. White flour foods are very rapidly converted to sugars, that's true, but only if eaten as pure food. Mix them with anything else and thier conversion rates vary widely. Nobody eats just white bread, for instance, for a meal. Sugars, however, aren't converted at all, as they are sugars when eaten. They cause the insulin spikes. Bananas are considered very healthy foods eaten any way you want. They have some suger, some complex carbs, some fiber and some very healthy fats. The fats and fiber in them slow down the conversion rate of the complex carbs eaten at the same time to allow the pancreas to regulate one's glucose level in an oderly manner. Not a thing wrong with eating one as a snack. E
This reminds me of a Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge debate... Ask 3 different guys who builds the best truck and you may get 3 different answers.. All 3 will get you from point A to point B.. But you drive whichever you prefer..
I think the most important thing to do is chose whichever diet works for you..Personally I could never give up Grains/pasta's.. I can however eat a little cleaner/leaner and lose weight (along with exercise).. Portion control and making sure I burn more calories than I consume is how I lose weight..
Having said this I am currently overweight, I lost 50 pounds last year before I got sick..While sick I gained 30 of it back.. I am in the process of losing it again.. Portion control and circuit training (new to me), I have so far lost 7lbs..
Not on that diet as the goal is to burn fat while conserving muscle. There is nothing wrong with an occasional banana or other fast absorbed fruit on a healthy normal diet when the goal is to maintain body composition but you should avoid them if the goal is to lose fat.
The diet I described is an extremly clean and lean diet with a specific goal. A normal healthy diet would consist of more fruits and fats.
It's been a while since I read Undaunted Courage, but I don't think you're quite right about how the diet and sickness stuff happened on the L&C expedition. I'm thinking I remember some pretty significant nutrition related illnesses. Might have been starvation more than anything. Also, I think I remember that most of their diet after they got to the Rockies was provided by Indians, not by hunting activities. Seems like camas root was a big staple for months at a time on the west side of the Continental Divide.
To a large extent, folks were just tougher then. They bulled their way through stuff and died early as a result.
No doubt tougher. Just reviewed and no serious illness, malnutrition due to diet.
As stated the Indians did provided some foods towards the end of the expedition. My point is they survived under incredibly difficult physical execise every day on basically a diet of game meat.
Thought this was interesting
EXPEDITION CUISINE: FEAST OR FAMINE
The story of the expedition's diet may not be pleasant for those who have queasy stomachs. Game was plentiful dur- ing good times and each man ate as much as nine pounds of meat per day; that's 36 quarter-pounders on today's scale! Both Lewis and Clark wrote that without the excel- lent skills of Drouillard, the expedition's best hunter, they might not have survived. Lewis wrote:
[I]t requires 4 deer, an Elk, and a deer, or one buffaloe, to supply us plentifully for 24 hours.
This gives us some idea of how they must have exerted themselves as they trudged along the way.
Food was scarce so often that they ate horses and even dogs. In the worst times, they resorted to eating roots, rot- ten elk, and candles made from animal-fat. Whiskey must have helped soothe their ails along the way until they ran out at the Great Falls on the Fourth of July 1805.
As they emerged from the Bitterroot Mountains, they met the Nez Perce Indians who offered them salmon and camas roots. The digestive systems of the expedition members were not accustomed to handling these types of foods, and they became violently ill
To the ones that do the protein shakes, are y'all just mixing supplement powder with a drink, or something else? I use the ON powder but looking for something with a little more substance to it.
To the ones that do the protein shakes, are y'all just mixing supplement powder with a drink, or something else? I use the ON powder but looking for something with a little more substance to it.
Two scoops of Cytosport Cytogainer in a pint of milk, a TBSP of GNC soy lecithin, a heaping TBSP of flaxseed meal, a shot of GNC liquid B-complex all goes in a Tupperware shaker bottle at around 5pm every day. I eat a dozen or so almonds with it. I eat the same thing living out of a pack, using Nido for the milk.
Ammino acids are proteins not fats. Glucose and fats are consumed all the time by the body unless it's straved for oxygen. Then it burns glucose only. If the blood sugar level falls, the consumption of fats also decreases. E
Eremicus, I bolded "fatty acids" not amino acids. And, if blood sugar falls, the pancreas will release glucagon which will stimulate the liver to release an enzyme lipase to break triglycerides into glycerol and free fatty acids for use in metabolism (lipolysis). Normally fatty acids are needed for metabolism of steroid dependent cells, such as those cells that produce sex hormones. Other hormones are fat based too. But, I'm not going to list them all. But, to maintain homeostasis, the body will generate the process off gluconeogenesis when blood sugar falls and glycogen stores are insufficient. The body must do this to protect the central nervous system which is completely glucose dependent. And does not require insulin. Blood sugar must stay at least 70 mg/dl for proper nervous cell function. If the blood sugar drops too low, the central nervous system will collapse. So, in reality, if blood sugar falls, fat metabolism increases. This is how we lose weight. Our bodies break down fat for fuel so our central nervous system doesn't die. I'm not saying it doesn't break down protein. It does, but with exercise, the muscle cells are stimulated and more fat will break down instead of protein. But, we have to be careful not to work the muscles too hard, or they'll break down from trauma and cause a person to go into rhabdomyolosis and acute kidney failure. It's all about cellular metabolism, cellular respiration and the generation of adenosine triphosphate. It's how the krebs cycle works. I don't advocate eliminating all carbs. They're brain food! (And I'd worry about ketoacidosis.) But, by reducing carb intake, the body will break down fat to feed it.
Two scoops of Cytosport Cytogainer in a pint of milk, a TBSP of GNC soy lecithin, a heaping TBSP of flaxseed meal, a shot of GNC liquid B-complex all goes in a Tupperware shaker bottle at around 5pm every day. I eat a dozen or so almonds with it. I eat the same thing living out of a pack, using Nido for the milk.
Dang, that's quite the ingredients. 5pm? Is that what you eat for supper?
Ammino acids are proteins not fats. Glucose and fats are consumed all the time by the body unless it's straved for oxygen. Then it burns glucose only. If the blood sugar level falls, the consumption of fats also decreases. E
Eremicus, I bolded "fatty acids" not amino acids. And, if blood sugar falls, the pancreas will release glucagon which will stimulate the liver to release an enzyme lipase to break triglycerides into glycerol and free fatty acids for use in metabolism (lipolysis). Normally fatty acids are needed for metabolism of steroid dependent cells, such as those cells that produce sex hormones. Other hormones are fat based too. But, I'm not going to list them all. But, to maintain homeostasis, the body will generate the process off gluconeogenesis when blood sugar falls and glycogen stores are insufficient. The body must do this to protect the central nervous system which is completely glucose dependent. And does not require insulin. Blood sugar must stay at least 70 mg/dl for proper nervous cell function. If the blood sugar drops too low, the central nervous system will collapse. So, in reality, if blood sugar falls, fat metabolism increases. This is how we lose weight. Our bodies break down fat for fuel so our central nervous system doesn't die. I'm not saying it doesn't break down protein. It does, but with exercise, the muscle cells are stimulated and more fat will break down instead of protein. But, we have to be careful not to work the muscles too hard, or they'll break down from trauma and cause a person to go into rhabdomyolosis and acute kidney failure. It's all about cellular metabolism, cellular respiration and the generation of adenosine triphosphate. It's how the krebs cycle works. I don't advocate eliminating all carbs. They're brain food! (And I'd worry about ketoacidosis.) But, by reducing carb intake, the body will break down fat to feed it.
I believe have cellular metabolism dialed in. You left out the nasty taste in your mouth from all those ketones. Its called welcome to SERE school.
I remember hearing Dr. Sears say that we only made enough ATP to last for ten seconds or so.
To the ones that do the protein shakes, are y'all just mixing supplement powder with a drink, or something else? I use the ON powder but looking for something with a little more substance to it.
Two scoops of Cytosport Cytogainer in a pint of milk, a TBSP of GNC soy lecithin, a heaping TBSP of flaxseed meal, a shot of GNC liquid B-complex all goes in a Tupperware shaker bottle at around 5pm every day. I eat a dozen or so almonds with it. I eat the same thing living out of a pack, using Nido for the milk.
Do you have to hold your nose to choke that down or is it tolerable?
Test your blood before a meal and again two hours after, you will see what raises your glucose and what doesnt, you will also see what effect your workouts have on your glucose as well.
Measuring accurately one's percentage of body fat can only be done with complicated equipment and a large tank of water, etc. Second best way is to simply look at yourself in the mirror with your clothes off. Most of your fat stores are right there to see. E
I believe have cellular metabolism dialed in. You left out the nasty taste in your mouth from all those ketones. Its called welcome to SERE school.
I remember hearing Dr. Sears say that we only made enough ATP to last for ten seconds or so.
LOL. Those darn nasty ketones! I did make a mention of ketoacidosis, but I did leave out about that beautiful breathy aroma. I'm female... no opportunity to attend SERE school. The worst I ever had was when I was training with some marines for a few months. My soft Navy butt wasn't used to all that PT and the lactic acid made me miserable. WMs are tough! Interesting. I don't ever remember hearing about how long a cell's ATP is good for. That must be a generalization. Because I would think a sperm cell needs way more than 10 seconds to penetrate an oocyte. Good discussion.
No, the body runs on fat and glucose all of the time. As one's glucose level falls, the body converts glycogen to glucose to raise the blood sugar level to nominal levels. But when the glycogen stores are depleted, the body first converts the avaialible proteins/amino acids in the blood stream to glucose thus producing toxins which the body must flush out. This also robs the body of the proteins in the form of ammino acids it needs to rebuild damaged cells, produce antibodies, etc. When these are depleted, the body goes into stravation posture, and starts converting muscle tissue into glucose. It also prioritzes making fat. It will turn alot of whatever one initatally eats into fat if it is not already fat. It can so convert either proteins or carbohydrates into fats to meet this demand. That doesn't mean it converts all of the food eaten to fat, just alot of it. When the body's blood sugar level reaches nominal levels, it then starts converting any extra glucose into glycogen for storage in the liver and the muscles. Proteins are broken down into amino acids and circulate in the blood stream and the extra protein is converted to fat as the body can't store extra protein as proteins. This is very clear when you look at a photograph of a starving person. They are skin and bone. Almost no muscle at all. You are quite correct about the need for glucose to maintain the functioning of the nervous system. But, the bottom line is if you want plenty of energy, and to allow the body to keep itself healthy and strong, one must keep one's blood sugar level at nominal levels. You can eat enough protein in small amounts throughout the day to do this. But one is far better off eating lots of complex carbs because they give one a backup for maintaining one's glucose level. And they leave the proteins to do their primary job, maintaining and rebuilding the body. E
While I am very familiar with ketoacidosis in Type I Diabetics, I am not with non-diabetic people.
I was unaware that it was a problem for non diabetics.
Is it just a milder form of the diabetic version and the body automatically dumps in more insulin to deal with it?
Be around a type I diabetic long enough and you learn real well what foods are bad and which are good.
Hate to burst your bubble TK, but banana's arent in the same league as a donut or ice cream cone and by a fair margin.
While there is fructose in fruits, its tied with fiber which slows down the intake and the sheer volume that can be had with soda or ice cream just cant be done with fruits.
The worst food of all that Ive seen ............ pizza, very easy to consume 150+ grams of carbs in one sitting and if you add soda to it, 200+.
4 days with very little carbs and I'm hating life. 5 hours a day at my job are hefty labor. Pretty much like doing a 60% cardio workout. The other 5 I sit on my ass and push buttons to murder trees with hydraulics. Then I workout AFTER work. So I get home about 3AM and I'm in bed by 4. All I consume after workout/before bed is a couple scoops of Pure Whey. I feel pretty beat down and can't recover like I used too. I give life a 6.75 on the Suckometer
So now I'm thinking two things. Hit the gym before work. And add in some carbs besides veggies. Maybe steel cut oatmeal for breakfast? I may try pasta for first break snack at 5:30 (it'd be the rest of the worlds 10:30am) Then no carbs after that.
I've completely cut out junk food (used to be there in moderation) and any and all softdrinks. Life sucks on 2nd shift with no RockStars or Red Bulls Back to french press unsweetened ice tea with some Constant Comment thrown in for a "sweetener"
Of course, its Friday, and like Kevin and Ed said. Its hard to top a good pale ale So tonight I've got a 6er of
If you haven't had it in a can yet, you don't know what you're missing
I've dropped 27 lbs. since mid Dec. and I don't think I can loose much more than about 4-5 more lbs. before I'm finished. But anyway, these items seem to have worked for me.
1) Determine how many cals. you can eat and still loose a pound a week and then count calories ever day. There's plenty of programs online that will tell you your calorie budget.
2) Find foods that you like, that are low or less calories than your old choices and enjoy 'em. Pump up the flavors with spices and really take the time and effort make your meals satisfying. Enjoy food, and feel satisfied.
3) Find physical activities or sports you love and do or play them. The more you do this, the more food you can put in your budget, and the stronger and prouder you'll feel.
4) Have a special occasion meal now and again...birthdays, holidays, anniversaries...whatever. Enjoy food and enjoy the special days in life.
I also step on the scale every day and do not stress about a pound or two in the wrong direction. The weight falls off so fast to begin with. Just stay on the course and watch the weight loss trend continue.
For me the difference between eating what ever the heck I want(lots of soda, beer,meats of all types,etc) VS. watching what I eat and exercising is 15lbs. Im not losing sleep about 15lbs unless I am going on vacation and then it takes me about 2 months to lose 15lbs by cutting my daily calories back to 1600. FWIW I just had a full physical and the only thing amiss was my good cholesterol was a little low. I also had 13% body fat, which for my age according to the doctors chart was excellent.
Low carb with a physical job is silly, IMO. It's one thing to lay of simple sugars, but quite another to exclude carbs if you're actually working more than an hour.
You entering some kind of body composition contest? If no, then eat some complex carbs for pete's sake.
Working out after work never works for me. Ever. There is always too much going on in the week. I think up and at it first thing in the morning is the best way to roll for most people.
Also tends to make you go to bed early, which is a good thing.
That's the best summary I've seen on the subject....
I know one thing, if you're going to do a half-marathon on St. Patty's Day in Bozeman, don't show up 5 lbs over your usual weight and don't start celebrating St. Patty's Day the night before...
If you are lactose intolerant, don't drink milk, it'll give you the trots. If you are not, enjoy.
TOO MANY carbs will make you a lardazz, post haste. Not enough carbs can affect energy levels, but if someone refuses to exercise, they are much better off on a low-carb (Atkins) diet. I try to do low carb if I'm traveling, as I do a lot, and my workouts are less than they should be.
Zone Diet originator, Dr. Barry Sears, says a person's "protein prescription" is determined by calculating their lean body mass (your body weight minus your fat weight) and then multiplying that number by a factor of 0.5 for someone who's sedentary. For someone lifting heavy or extremely active, IE a logger, multiply by 1. Most Crossfitters find that 0.7 works for them if they have a fairly sedentary job. Crossfitting in the AM and Jujitsu at night, 0.8 or more. Doing Starting Strength,use 1. This number will give you the number of grams per 24hr period, divide it up into 5-6 meals/snacks.
One the Zone Diet, for every 3grams of protein, you add 4grams of carbs. If this doesn't provide enough calories and you are losing weight, add more fat. Most of those elite crossfitters at the Crossfit Games on ESPN last year were working out at least three times/day. Most were consuming way over 50% of their calories from fat.
That was my way of stating not every person is the same, and not every diet will give the same results. But there is some very sound advice on this thread regardless.
This week its carbs early, and gym at the buttcrack of dawn (which for me is 10AM) Today was run an uphill 5k on a treadmill and chest, shoulders, and triceps. Work is going to suck, but the thing I'm keeping in mind is being in shape enough to hunt hard is more important than work
Travis, I was starting to wonder if you fell off the map. How you been?
If you really want to drop tonage try doing a five day a week plan. Mongay, Wednesgay, and Frigay do cardio. Tuesday and Thursday just do 30 minutes of circuit. No weights, or if you do use weights, stay really light and do lots of clean and jerks, deadlifts and squats.
Treadmills are for pregnant women. Get your ass outside and run.
If you really want to drop tonage try doing a five day a week plan. Mongay, Wednesgay, and Frigay do cardio. Tuesday and Thursday just do 30 minutes of circuit. No weights, or if you do use weights, stay really light and do lots of clean and jerks, deadlifts and squats.
Treadmills are for pregnant women. Get your ass outside and run.
Travis
My Dad used to say that the most effective diet for most married men was to only eat when your wife cooks.
Not bad. Not bad at all, with the exception of the supplements that contain effective anti oxidents. So far, there are no supliment antioxidents that work. The compounds are identical, but when tested in the body, they don't work. So something else may be needed. The only other thing I'd mention is you don't need a whole plate full of each item. Small amounts of a wide variety of veggies and fruit works fine. E
I can think of so many ways to get a workout...the last thing I ever want to do is go inside in a weight room and bend over a machine...let alone, pay to do it???...to each their own
Not bad. Not bad at all, with the exception of the supplements that contain effective anti oxidents. So far, there are no supliment antioxidents that work. The compounds are identical, but when tested in the body, they don't work. E
E, You are so full of crap when in comes to nutrition.
Not bad. Not bad at all, with the exception of the supplements that contain effective anti oxidents. So far, there are no supliment antioxidents that work. The compounds are identical, but when tested in the body, they don't work. E
E, You are so full of crap when in comes to anything
Not bad. Not bad at all, with the exception of the supplements that contain effective anti oxidents. So far, there are no supliment antioxidents that work. The compounds are identical, but when tested in the body, they don't work. E
E, You are so full of crap when in comes to anything
Fixed it for you
Cut E some slack. Maybe nutrition isn't his forte, but he does know guns and 4wds better'n most.
You can do anything on low carb you can on high carb once the body is adjusted with the exception of maintaining about 80% max HR for hours upon hours. 65% Max HR sure you can do it for 12 hours.
Really Ed ? You apparently got your nutrition education by reading the ad hype and "trying it on yourself." Alot of people do that. The trouble is you, and people like you, spend alot of money on stuff that doesn't work nearly as well as they are led to believe. You see, all you need to do is buy and eat the right foods that are readily avialiable and follow the nutrition advice that's been around for years. No special foods or diet suppliments are needed unless one doesn't eat properly in the first place. I got mine by learning the basics and following the properly done studies, not by following the ideas of the diet gurus. The Federal Food Guidelines that you reject are simply a summary of many years of properly done studies. By doing so, I've found myself in better physical condition than ever and I have far fewer sick days or other medical conditions. It's your call. E
I'm not even a pretend expert on the internet. Hell until recently i thought light beer and reduced fat oreos were health food. I've a out given up on the diet business. When my little girl wants pancakes for breakfast we're having carbs. I try not to let some "diet" run my life and if I'm 15lbs. Heavier for it so be it. I just try and eat better today then yesterday, and follow what a college buddy said, get the fire hot enough you can burn anything!
Wow...this has turned into quite a thread. Lot of good stuff in here...mixed with quite a bit of B.S. as well (as usual).
I think the bottom line is that different things obviously work for different people. As long as you're fueling your body for the type of exercise and level of exertion you're accustomed to or want to get accustomed to, and you're keeping blood pressure, cholesterol, etc etc in check then you're fine. If you're not staying strong, if you're getting fat, if you have hypertension, if your cholesterol is elevated then you need to make changes. Dan is on the right track, he tried something...it's not working for his activity level and so he's going to make some adjustments until it does work. Perfect.
One thing that's always kind of confused me is the whole "well, people used to do it hundreds or thousands of years ago so it must be good" mentality. Considering people used to die a LOT younger back then, I'm not sure that's the recipe for success. I'm not saying you're completely wrong about their diets (I haven't read enough about those particular diets to form an opinion) and I know there are many factors besides diet that accounted for people dying younger, I just don't understand the argument. If something is healthy, it's healthy. Show me the science and results behind it. But don't try to convince me it's correct because cavemen or frontiersmen did it.
I also have a much harder time buying into diets that are promoted by people who are making money off of them (through books, videos, directly selling the food needed for the diet, etc). That's like buying a new truck and instead of doing your due diligence beforehand, you just ask the guy at the Ford dealership what the best truck on the market is. Obviously he's not going to recommend you buy a Dodge or Chevy. The best research comes from unbiased third party scientific studies in which the researchers have no financial interest in the results.
I have been on the paleo diet for a short period of time and so far I like it . The underlying premises make sense to me. I enjoy looking at photos of WWII soldiers. They were all scrawny and wiry looking. What do you think they would look like today on the typical high carb/junk food diet? As far as cavemen, frontiersmen, etc., dying early you have to remember accidents happened all the time back then and there was no medical care. Simple medical problems plus bacteria and viruses meant you were dead. It wasn't a person's diet that killed him.
But I would take anything Dr. Dwight C. Lundell says with a big grain of salt. Between 2000 and 2008, Dr. Lundell was subjected to five regulatory actions by the Arizona Medical Board and then had his medical license revoked in 2008. He has filed for bankruptcy twice. In 2004 he was convicted on three counts of willfully failing to pay his federal taxes and put on three years probation. He would not be my source of information for a healthy diet.
Once again get your information from solid scientific sources and make your choices. Don't embrace someone's spiel just because he's telling you what you want to hear.
Well, it is important and relevant what "cavemen"did...that IS the science, and it is based on our genetics and how we developed. I read in a book sometime ago that if you look at human history as it relates to diet In the context of a football field the distance to the age of agriculture is like 98 yards and something like 100,000 generations; then to the industrial revolution is like 99 2/3 yards and about 8 generations.
Our modern diet is abased on the last couple inches of a football field. I thought that was an interesting way to illustrate things. As mentioned by someone else, it is not diet that killed our ancestors. They were eating what our bodies were designed to eat based upon thousands and thousands oaf years of adaptation or whatever your want to call it (don't want to enter a theological argument). The simple fact is that it takes many generations for genetic adaptation and the human body has not had enough time to adapt to the foods we currently eat. Diseases like heart disease weren't even described until the early 1900's but are epidemic now, as is obesity, diabetes,etc. we all know this, but still disagree on causation. Stephen Taube and authors like him (as well as physicians that have questioned the wisdom of the supposedly heart-healthy diet for many years) base their argument on sound science based on human history and evolution/adaptation and the way cells function metabolically. The not-so-smart thing to do in my estimation is to swallow the garbage (no pun intended) espoused today as "healthy" and "necessary".
I think many people are mistaken as to what complex carbs are. I eat plenty of complex carbs, but try to get most of them as vegetables rather than grains.
Here are some of my meals fro the past couple weeks:
Breakfast this morning. Breakfast burrito with 3 eggs scrambled with salsa and eaten on collared greens rather than a tortilla:
Lunch yesterday. Baby turnips with the greens, cauliflower, broccoli, green garlic, orange bell pepper and grape tomatoes sauteed' in olive oil.
A supper of grilled elk steak served on a variety of steamed and fresh veggies including broccoli, carrots, kale, chard, and tomatoes.
A supper of baked chicken breast with ginger served with sauteed' veggies of bell pepper, fennel, asparagus, and broccli diccio.
Another supper of grilled elk steak on raw veggies that include kholarabi, watermelon radish, arugula, spinach, avacado and cooked beets. Topped with romano cheese.
I still eat grains, but I feel much better if they are limited.
I grow many of my own veggies, but the iceburg just melted off my garden spot, so it will be a while yet I still have some kale and tomatoes in the freezer from last summer though.
I eat mostly organic and prefer local organic when possible.
The eggs we eat are raised organically by a co-worker of mine.
Ya winter started with a whimper this year but went out fighting to the last breath, three weeks ago I had no snow, yesterday there was three inches, now its melting again ......... for the third time.
I would say you are a lucky man Ed, but proper planning, preperation and execution arent luck.
In order to get enough calores from greens and most vegetables Ed, one has to eat about five pounds of them per day. That's why whole grains are a much better choice. Even with alot of whole grains, it's still tough to get 50% of your calores from complex carbs. Again, if you run out of glucose from carbs, the body turns to proteins and them muscle tissue for glucose. I eat alot like you do as a matter of fact. But I center my breakfasts on a large bowl of oatmeal, not veggies, eggs or meat. I also have a small whole wheat bagel, a fat free yogurt with chunks of fruit and top my oatmeal with fresh or dried berries. Lunch is another bowl of oatmeal, with a banana, and either fresh berries or honey. I add a hard boiled egg, 3-4 ozs. of almonds, and usally a couple of apricot newtons. Dinner is a large salad for a center piece. Greens of five different varieties, baby carrots lining the edge, a small tomatoe or several cherry tomatoes, a slice of red bell pepper, some white chicken meat, say 6 ozs. worth, and a topping of brocoli or several brussel sprouts. That, and a large baked potatoe eaten with the skin and topped with fat free ranch dressing, and a couple of corn meal cup cakes for desert. If I need to snack between meals, I choose something that's at least 50% complex carbs, not sugar. Some fat and fiber if I'm not out of breath much from activity. E
Every single "whole" grain food you buy from the store is CRAP, total and complete crap, all of it. Doubt me, read the labels.
Still doubt me, here is a test for you.
Buy actual whole wheat grains, grind them up yourself (DO NOT BUY STORE BOUGHT FLOUR) and make yourself a loaf of bread using real ingredients, no additives or preservatives.
Eat it and get back to me. Until you do that, you dont know what you are talking about.
I absolutely assure you that the bread wont even get cooled off before its devoured, I dare you to find me one loaf of bread in a store that tastes as good.
Crap is crap, even in small quantities or mixed with good food, its still crap.
In order to get enough calores from greens and most vegetables Ed, one has to eat about five pounds of them per day. That's why whole grains are a much better choice. Even with alot of whole grains, it's still tough to get 50% of your calores from complex carbs.
Freshly ground flour by you, milk, yeast, and other NATURAL ingredients.
Anything else added is crap, this includes vegetable shortening, vegetable oil, corn oil, mazola etc etc etc. Especially things added that you cannot pronounce the words to or find at the local farmers market.
Virgin olive oil is good, REAL butter is good, coconut oil is good, anything altered in anyway or added to it to make it last longer is crap.
Guys, food isnt rocket science, its just made complex and obscured by companies that want into your wallet and they do not care one iota how badly it affects your health.
This crap is purposely made to be addictive, purposely made to make you crave it so you will eat, eat, eat and eat more yet, no matter the damage it does to your health.
Dont believe me that a company is capable of doing this, think tobacco.
Look on the internet, you will find Mcdonalds cheeseburgers that ar 5 or 6 years old and dont look over 2 minutes old, this includes the bun.
Do you really believe that the foods with all of the same additives and preservatives in your grocery store are any different?
Stick a tub of pretend butter out on your back porch and report back on how many bugs you find in it ............. none, they wont touch that crap.
Go ahead and eat all you want of anything you want, but when you get cancer, heart disease, diabetes etc etc etc, dont complain, no one made you eat the crap.
First off I wasnt advocating milk, I was challenging you to taste the difference between homemade bread vs. store bought, it was a comparison to show you what they do to our food with total disredard for our health all in the name of making money.
Second, if you cant see the difference between milk and refined sugar, I'm wasting my time.
Arguing about it is moot until YOU actually taste the difference.
Its not rocket science, if you think about it with an open mind while disregarding advertising, most anyone should be able to think it through.
Go outdoors up into the mountains and live off of what you can scavenge, kill or catch and that there is the diet humans evolved on for that given ecosystem.
North american indians didnt have freezers, refrigerators or microwaves. Yes some farmed limited grains, but as I pointed out there is NO comparison what so ever between those grain products and what you buy in the store today.
In the end it is a free country and you are free to choose what you eat and drink .......... knock yourself out.
First off I wasnt advocating milk, I was challenging you to taste the difference between homemade bread vs. store bought
I know the difference. I am a big fan of homemade rye bread. I don't have a suitable wood oven to make it myself though.
Originally Posted by elkhunter_241
Second, if you cant see the difference between milk and refined sugar, I'm wasting my time.
If you label a product with little amount of sugar crap then you are wasting everyone's time.
Originally Posted by elkhunter_241
Arguing about it is moot until YOU actually taste the difference.
We are discussing nutrition here, not taste.
Originally Posted by elkhunter_241
Go outdoors up into the mountains and live off of what you can scavenge, kill or catch and that there is the diet humans evolved on for that given ecosystem.
Dude, I know darn well that fruits and vegetables contain fructose, but there is absolutely no comparing them to refined sugar in any way shape or form.
Anyone that says sugar is ok because it comes from sugar beets or sugar cane is either an idiot or has stock in a company selling sugar.
Refined sugar usually isn't the best thing for a product but if one can't handle a tiny bit of it then some physical activity is highly recommended. The biggest thing here is the ratio of the bads versus the goods. A product very high in fibre with little sugar does not make it "crap". Otherwise anything that contains sugar is "crap", including vegatables.
All you need to do David is read how many grams of carbohydrates or total calores are availiable in both at the same volume or weight. There are, of course some crossover veggies. Corn and potatoes are pretty good examples. BTW, for a guy living in Montana, growing his own veggies, Ed earns my respect. That has to be alot of work to do. Me, I just go to my local super market and select whatever I need. E
Eh241, I've eaten lots of fresh baked bread. I don't have to make any up to understand your point. However, you don't seem to understand a few things. One is that there is lots of independent testing going on in the world of food. Most of it is funded by the big universities. One of my sources of information is from one of these. Their news letter is published because of all of the bad information out there. Another is that you can't tell how nutrious anything is by tasting it. Sugar tastes great too, and we all know how bad that is for us. Last of all, the so called "all natural foods" hype is highly overated. In the words of the UC Berkeley staffers, who put out the UCB Wellness Letter, they may be good for the planet, but the they are no better than ordinary store bought foods as far as nutritional content. E
All you need to do David is read how many grams of carbohydrates or total calores are availiable in both at the same volume or weight.
Fibre ratio to sugar. Protein intake vs fat. There are lots of things to consider when reading the labels. There's a lot of difference between products that are labeled whole grain. Some are good, some are bad.
Make a plan not only based on calories but also how much of protein, fibre, sugar, total carbs and then fat you want in your diet. Don't forget to watch out for items like sodium either.
You know what, you guys are right, I was wrong, what was I thinking.
Almost no one is dying from cancer, heart diesase or obesity related illness these days. Virtually no teens are getting type I diabetes or running around sporting muffin tops.
The big food companies are telling you the truth, refined sugar and HFCS are perfectly safe, all those chemicals, perservatives and additives are safe too, eat up.
Heck the tobacco companies didnt mean to hurt anyone, they are sorry.
Keep drinking the kool-aid ............
I had a foreman like you two guys, everytime I observed a machine that wasnt operating correctly I would tell him and his standard response was "it's not supposed to do that", well no chit.
SOMETHING is killing people with cancer!
SOMETHING is causing people to get grossly obese!
SOMETHING is causing skyrocketing type I diabetes in children!
SOMETHING is causing more and more people to die from heart disease!
You got two choices, keep your head plugged into the sand and go over the cliff with all the other sheep or wake up and start making better choices at the table ............ choose wisely.
Just as you are free to choose what you eat or dont eat, so am I and I choose not to eat that crap, you will have to forgive me for ignoring you when you try to tell me over and over how safe it is, because I just simply dont believe you and never will, ever.
You know what, you guys are right, I was wrong, what was I thinking.
Almost no one is dying from cancer, heart diesase or obesity related illness these days. Virtually no teens are getting type I diabetes or running around sporting muffin tops.
The big food companies are telling you the truth, refined sugar and HFCS are perfectly safe, all those chemicals, perservatives and additives are safe too, eat up.
Heck the tobacco companies didnt mean to hurt anyone, they are sorry.
Keep drinking the kool-aid ............
I had a foreman like you two guys, everytime I observed a machine that wasnt operating correctly I would tell him and his standard response was "it's not supposed to do that", well no chit.
SOMETHING is killing people with cancer!
SOMETHING is causing people to get grossly obese!
SOMETHING is causing skyrocketing type I diabetes in children!
SOMETHING is causing more and more people to die from heart disease!
You got two choices, keep your head plugged into the sand and go over the cliff with all the other sheep or wake up and start making better choices at the table ............ choose wisely.
Just as you are free to choose what you eat or dont eat, so am I and I choose not to eat that crap, you will have to forgive me for ignoring you when you try to tell me over and over how safe it is, because I just simply dont believe you and never will, ever.
My first thought was that it's more likely a lack of proper exercise that is leading to the ailments you listed. That, along with fast food, candy, soda pop, etc. I think people who look for whole grains in the supermarket are largely not the people suffering from these ailments.
Well as to the original question, if you eat like Edt you will certainly lose those 10 lbs and damn it would be tasty. open a restaurant dude! the best tip I know is eat really light dinners. but I need the fat and carbs to,keep.me going all day.
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