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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Sorry no digital camera or scanner, so no pics. Here's the details: Pistol grip, crescent butt plate (steel), cut checkered, schnable forearm. It has been a while since I had the scope mounts off, so the roll mark on top of the receiver ring may not have an "A" after the Mod. 99. I will not swear to it before the jury either way <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> As I stated earlier, I am not a collector (or a historian) and really don't know all the configurations and how they relate to the letter designations. The rifle is most definately not "collectable". Condition of finish is around 60% (not counting the kitchen table D&T job and replacement barrel). It also has a swivel stud hole drilled in the butt stock but doesn't have one in the forearm, suggesting that the original barrel had a barrel band stud installed at some point. Ladies, gentlemen, and Johnny, I rest my case... It is an excellent shooter, and I do shoot the piss out of it and will continue to do so <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Very well, sir. Carry on. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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Joined: Mar 2002
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Campfire Outfitter
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I didn't read far enough...22" barrel, 1 in 10 twist and a Westfield address. Sounds like a 50's receiver with a 60's plus barrel to me. May be it was sent back to the factory or Savage Services? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Savage...never say "never".
Rick...
Join the NRA...together we stand, divided we fall!
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I didn't read far enough...22" barrel, 1 in 10 twist and a Westfield address. Sounds like a 50's receiver with a 60's plus barrel to me. May be it was sent back to the factory or Savage Services? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> It was my understanding that square threads and V-threads don't mix. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Yes? No?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Although there are a couple of guys who think that I'm a loose cannon for advocating the "dangerous" practice of rechambering Marlin 336s from 30-30 to 307 and from 35 Rem to 356, those conversion are nothng compared to this if it is a mixed thread pattern.
I would be VERY concerned about having a "V" thread barrel mated to a square thread receiver UNLESS it is documented to have been done by Savage. I have no idea how Savage would do it, but I suspect that if they did do it, it would have to meet their safety/liability criteria. I would suggest that this rifle, if it is a mix of thread patterns, could be dangerous to the shooter. How dangerous? I don't know, but more dangerous than I'd be willing to risk. Hand me my 307!
Jeff
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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Although there are a couple of guys who think that I'm a loose cannon for advocating the "dangerous" practice of rechambering Marlin 336s from 30-30 to 307 and from 35 Rem to 356, those conversion are nothng compared to this if it is a mixed thread pattern.
I would be VERY concerned about having a "V" thread barrel mated to a square thread receiver UNLESS it is documented to have been done by Savage. I have no idea how Savage would do it, but I suspect that if they did do it, it would have to meet their safety/liability criteria. I would suggest that this rifle, if it is a mix of thread patterns, could be dangerous to the shooter. How dangerous? I don't know, but more dangerous than I'd be willing to risk. Hand me my 307!
Jeff Could the barrels have been threaded as needed?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Yes, since there are a number of documented "Savage Services" 99s in 358 with 24" barrels. The only CATALOGED post-1960 99s with 24" barrels chambered in 358 would have been the 1960 through 1964 99DLs, but they had bosses on the barrel for the rear sight dovetail. The "Savage Services" rifles that I have seen pictures of, have appeared to have straight tappered barrels a la the 99EG and 99R. The short answer from me is; "I don't know". However, having rebarreled a 99 or 2, I can't imagine that mixing threads would result in a very tight fit. I know that I wouldn't try to assemble a 99 from mixed parts, but I like my fingers, eyes, and stunning good looks too much to risk them on questionable 'smithing practices.
Maybe Steve from SAS can answer from a former employee's position of expertise.
Jeff
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This is interesting stuff <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> The barrel is perfectly "timed" with the receiver (sights, address stamp all aligned w/ center of receiver). The barrel is tight and head space is not excessive. Have fired several hundred rounds through this rifle with no case stretching and with excellent accuracy, which indicates to me that the barrel and receiver are mated solidly. I have no fear of it. As to the butt of the gun, it is more deeply curved than the shotgun butt on my 99M and less curved than the full crescent in JN's photo. The toe actually flattens out to nearly 90 deg but still protrudes back noticably from the top of the butt.
ego operor non tutela
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Are there any stampings (proof mark...etc.) on the left side of the receiver or on the barrel?
Savage...never say "never".
Rick...
Join the NRA...together we stand, divided we fall!
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Left side of barrel, 1" forward of receiver ring, small oval, appears to have been stamped upside down, letters SP.
ego operor non tutela
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Anyone have a factory rebarreled rifle? None of my standard Westfield rifles show the proof mark. The only rebarrel I have has a Chicopee barrel and is proofed on the left side of the receiver ring. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
You have a factory proof mark but was it stamped before or after it was rebarreled?
Savage...never say "never".
Rick...
Join the NRA...together we stand, divided we fall!
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Is there any significance to the proof mark being inverted, or does this happen from time to time due to sloppy stamping?
ego operor non tutela
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I don't know.
How long have you had the rifle? You see, the pre-1960 lever safety 99 actions had a square thread pattern, but the post-1960 tang and lever safety 99 actions have a "v" thread pattern. As any machinist can tell you, the threads have to match to make a stong fit. There were some guns made up from parts during the middle/late 1980 by an entity called "Savage Services", but the SN on your receiver doesn't sync with the Savage Services rifles. All of the pre-1970 250-3000 barrels had a 1 in 14" twist, while all of the post-1970 250-3000 barrels had a 1 in 10" twist. Logic suggests that you pre-1960 receiver was made with square threads, while you post-1970 barrel was made with "v" threads. No disrespect to your rifle, but if it is a mixed thread pattern rifle that somebody made up from parts, it could be dangerous for you to shoot.
Jeff
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I've had the rifle for a good while and have shot it extensively (at least 400 rounds, probably more). It has always been MOA accurate and has never had a problem with wandering zero, and has not exhibited excessive headspace. Given this, I consider the rifle to be safe. If the barrel and the receiver had mis-matched threads, I am sure some indication of improper fit would have manifested itself by now. Whether both barrel and receiver both have v-threads or whether they both have square threads is of little interest to me. The consistency of the gun convinces me that the threads are well mated (either that or some kitchen table hack did a hell of a job with JB Weld <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />but I don't think thats likely).
ego operor non tutela
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Campfire Tracker
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If it was in fact re-barreled by the factory, since they made their own barrels, they had the capacity to cut the proper threads for a pre '60 receiver. Since they were doing re-barrel jobs long after the change in threads took place one would think that they'd do it correctly.
Go tell the Spartans,Travelers passing by,That here,Obedient to their laws we lie.
I'm older now but I'm still runnin' against the wind
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unscrew the barrel and see what's there.. simple
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Good luck!
I hope that you didn't take anything that I wrote as slighting your rifle. It sounds like a good shooter and, since it isn't collectable, what more can you ask for? My intent was to educate you to the differences between pre- and post-1960 Savage 99s barrel/receiver thread patterns and the potential danger to you if your rifle was assembled from mixed thread pattern parts. Your rifle is a good example of why I put a liability disclaimer on every used firearm that I sell.
Jeff
Last edited by 260Remguy; 11/05/05.
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Jeff- No offense was taken from your comments, and as you had no knowledge of my firearms experience, your warning was justified. I am not a Savage historian and did not know about the the difference in pre-mil and post-mil threads, but as a sucker for cheap sporterized military rifles, I have had a few run ins with poor barrel to receiver mating and the .250 exhibits none of the indicators of poor fit. I am actually well pleased with the situation. I have the feel and function of a pre-mil rifle with the greater versitility of a 1 in 10 twist. Thanks to everybody for their insights. Gad
ego operor non tutela
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Jeff- No offense was taken from your comments, and as you had no knowledge of my firearms experience, your warning was justified. I am not a Savage historian and did not know about the the difference in pre-mil and post-mil threads, but as a sucker for cheap sporterized military rifles, I have had a few run ins with poor barrel to receiver mating and the .250 exhibits none of the indicators of poor fit. I am actually well pleased with the situation. I have the feel and function of a pre-mil rifle with the greater versitility of a 1 in 10 twist. Thanks to everybody for their insights. Gad So how did you come into this rifle? This is turning out to be rather intriguing.
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