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Campfire Tracker
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Elk,
I too share the questions/concerns over whether the Xp3 will tumble due to it's shank shrinking to almost nothing ?
Also, it is my understanding that the presence of a shank aids in penetration (perhaps straight penetration ?) ?
Like the concept Winchester is trying to implement, not too sure if they were successful.
Great article BTW and, welcome to the 'fire.
Tony
Last edited by hicountry; 11/08/05.
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Welcome Elk,
Grab a log and rest your hump. I too would like to see this bullet released to handloaders but won't be holding my breath. Good article, we are enriched by your company.
1flier
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Joined: Aug 2002
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Elk: Thank goodness, I was beginning to wonder if there was any hope for the same affliction plaguing this house. There is some hope <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. BTW, I particularly enjoy your articles as well as MD's. Hope you stay around for a good long time. Lots of great folks (errr rifle loonies) around to keep you entertained. Now I need to decide what to trade Dad for my recently rebarreled Mountain Rifle in .260. Maybe his Kimber 84M 7mm-08, on second thought I bought it for him, he should give it to me. Sadly ( <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ), I'm headed to hunt with him in a couple of weeks and will be returning with one less. Happens every year. Maybe this time I'll buy a used 710 and see what he does, no takers or trades I could use it as a tomato stake.
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Joined: Mar 2004
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I for one sure hope that Winchester doesn't discontinue the Failsafe. I have a couple rifles that shoot them extremely well, they were devastating on a couple wild hogs I shot them with earlier this year.
The only thing I really didn't like about the article was that it sent me to the store to buy another sleeve of 180gr failsafes to keep my Finnlite fed...............DJ
Remember this is all supposed to be for fun.......................
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Joined: Nov 2005
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I've been chasing deer and elk, so I'm a bit late with my replies.
----I see no difference between the "old" and "new" Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullets, at least on game in North America. My son put a new 140 gr. Bear Claw from a 7-08 in the short rib of an elk and it came out the throat. Another bullet from the same box of cartridges hit a six-foot black bear in the front of the chest. The bear died right there. I found the bullet in the bear's tail, perfectly expanded and with a weight of 136 grains.
----- After recovering the XP3 bullet from my bull elk I sort of worried that a bullet mashed that flat might fly off course in game and fail to penetrate enough. But the reality is the bullet expanded violently, yet penetrated straight and deep enough to take out both shoulder bones of that elk. In my book, that's a pretty good bullet.
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I have had similiar performance with express Core-lokts so why buy these expensive shells.
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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wis
sooner or later you'll learn the hard way.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Lets take a black bear I shot this year as an example to why core-lokts work. A big boar(400 dressed) came into my bait and stood quartering toward me so I put a bullet in its near shoulder and the 180 grain core-lokt went through the shoulder, 1 lungs, liver and the guts before lodging in the opposite back leg. After the shot the bear spun around after trying to put weight on a broken shoulder and back leg and didn't get back up after landing flat on its face. The bullet was mushroomed good and didn't break apart at all. What would a "premium" bullet have done differently.
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I can see why some would question the need for yet another bullet, but after taking 6 African animals (eland, 2-gemsbok, warthog, impala and mountain zebra), 2 mule deer and 8 whitetails with the XP3 from my .300WSM, I can tell you it is a damn fine bullet. Whether you "need" it or not is for you to decide.
Greg Rodriguez Global Adventure Outfitters, Inc. www.mbogo.net(281) 494-4151
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Speaking of bullets-----
My neighbor used the Barnes 150 gr. Triple Shock in his .270 Winchester this past week to shoot a big six-point bull elk, 4x4 whitetail buck and a whitetail doe.
He was real happy with the Triple Shock's performance on the elk and said it ran about 30 yards after taking one bullet through the lungs.
The deer, though, were another matter. He said the buck ran off after taking one bullet through the lungs and he had to shoot it again after it ran a couple hundred yards and was about to jump the fence into posted land. )The second bullet broke its back leg and killed it. He says he hit the doe right through both lungs and it ran off and was lost. However, his parter thought the doe was hit in the guts. Anyway, my neighbor said he is never ever never again going to use a Triple Shock on deer.
His report is opposite of everything I have seen 27, 28 and 30 caliber Triple Shock bullets do to deer.
Any thought?
Elk
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Speaking of bullets-----
My neighbor used the Barnes 150 gr. Triple Shock in his .270 Winchester this past week to shoot a big six-point bull elk, 4x4 whitetail buck and a whitetail doe.
He was real happy with the Triple Shock's performance on the elk and said it ran about 30 yards after taking one bullet through the lungs.
The deer, though, were another matter. He said the buck ran off after taking one bullet through the lungs and he had to shoot it again after it ran a couple hundred yards and was about to jump the fence into posted land. )The second bullet broke its back leg and killed it. He says he hit the doe right through both lungs and it ran off and was lost. However, his parter thought the doe was hit in the guts. Anyway, my neighbor said he is never ever never again going to use a Triple Shock on deer.
His report is opposite of everything I have seen 27, 28 and 30 caliber Triple Shock bullets do to deer.
Any thought?
Elk Yes, is it possible it was poor bullet placement? Second, for deer, maybe use the 130TSXs- the 150s may be too much of a good thing. Last, have them try the new MRX by Barnes. It is basically the same as the XP3, but seems to be better built (no secondary mushroom) due to tungsten core vs. the lead core by Olin. Any thoughts on their new bullet?
Monster Whitetails are Awesome!!!
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Without a doubt the MRX will be a great hunting bullet. However, the price of MRX bullets might be a bit hard to swallow.
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...the price of MRX bullets might be a bit hard to swallow. It would be easier to swallow if the performance is in line with the price. Time will tell.
Last edited by brooksrange; 11/22/05.
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Elk, I shot a cow elk this year with 180 TSX bullets from a 300 WSM. 75 yds.
Blood trail was nothing. I'd look for quite some time to find a drop of blood no bigger than a grain of rice. 125 yds away, she laid dead, hit right behind the shoulder, about 60% up.
The bullet had about a coke can sized hole on entry, pureed the lungs, but didn't exit. I am told that it may have tumbled, but there was nothing between me and the elk when I fired.
The other two animals I killed this year with that rifle/load combo didn't tell me much. The pronghorn was hit hard, and penetrated well. The other elk was a spine shot at 270 yds, offhand, and a 223 would have done fine.
That being said, the jury is still out on the TSX for me. I'm 90% sure I'll go back to partitions.
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Welcome to the Campfire. I enjoyed the article but I doubt I'll be buying any. For elk the Barnes X that I use now work fine and when they're gone it'll be Partitions. Most of this stuff to me seems to be reinventing the wheel and fixing problems that aren't there. As for the Fail Safe I tried the 165s in my 30-06 once and it shot pretty good patterns. Notice I said patterns, not groups. We're talking 4 to 5 inches. As for the TSX on deer, I have a friend that has used them and they worked well but he shoots them in the shoulder to make sure that it hit bone to expand. I just use a SP type bullet like a Hornady Interlock, deer aren't that hard to kill!
The unarmed man is not only defenseless, he is also contemptible.
Niccolo Machiavelli
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I have had mixed results with the TSX on deer-sized game. In my experience, the problems arise with slower loads. From magnums or at close range, they work well. But as the distance increases, especially with standard velocity rounds, the TSX may or may not expand.
I recently tested some 130 grainers in my daughter's .260. They performed well at 2750 fps, but when I downloaded to about 2500 fps for her, they pencil-holed several deer, one of which my Jack Russell trailed for a mile before I was able to dispatch it. The quartering shot left a tiny .264 hole through one lung as it raked through 24 inches of deer.
250 fps may not seem like much, but I think 2700 or so is right at the TSX performance threshold. Drive them faster and they work fine. If you push them slower, cross your fingers.
Just my .02, but I have taken quite a few head of game with the TSX from several cartridges.
Greg Rodriguez Global Adventure Outfitters, Inc. www.mbogo.net(281) 494-4151
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CoreLokt problems
Glad this came up. I shot a medium size buck high on the shoulder this year at about 100 yds with a 30-06 165 corelokt. Found the jacket in the near shoulder without core. It appears that the core penetrated to the far shoulder without exiting, but I did not find it.
The buck dropped and lay there kicking. I put another one in him just in case, before I unloaded to climb down the ladder.
I have had good luck with the 180 in my .300 win mag, even on shoulder shots - full penetration. Same thing with one other deer and the same 165 bullet in an '06.
But, John Barsness (my favorite) reports that Remington has cheapened the CL in recent years, with the exception of the roundnose version. He reports similar poor experience with shoulder shots on deer.
Anybody else? I love the 180 roundnose, but it doesn't always shoot real well in some of my '06 rifles. Haven't shot a deer with the 180 psp corelokt. May try them.
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I shot a deer from end to end with a 220 grain core-lokt this year maybe try them.
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Shouldershot,
I've shot 4 deer with 165gr. CLs out of a 30-06 that were mild loads and the exited no matter what I hit. I'm figuring 2600-2650fps muzzle vel. but that's a guess. My Dad has killed several deer with the same load and has never recovered a bullet. With the update courtesy of Mule Deer on Core-Lokts, I wouldn't push 'em too hard if I was handloading them. In factory loads I would opt for the next heavier weight (ie. 180s in 30-06, 165s in 308). I've heard several folks report similar results as you have posted using factory 150 CLs in 308.
Karma and Trouble have busses, and there's always an empty seat.
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Seems like almost every bullet goes through at least a couple of changes before acceptable results ensue. Does anybody remember the bullet Winchester unveiled, then withdrew a few months later, that was the forerunner of the FailSafe? My memory is failing me.
Joearcher
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