Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles New pet peeve .....

When folks are talking about their rifles they like to brag that they are sub-MOA shooters ... but only at specific distances. GGRRRRR. If your rifle is capable of sub-MOA performance at 100 yards ... it should be just as capable at 200 yards or 50 or 500 .... you the shooter may not be, but the rifle should be .... so why do folks insist on saying their rifles are sub-MOA @ 100??? Do they just NOT understand what MOA means? But caliber still trumps all ... hey what caliber is that?? ...

Hey there's my medication ... ahhhh .... all is goodly now.

Have you not noticed that many loads that are equally accurate at 100 yards are often not equal at 300 yards? Same shooter. Same gun. Same scope. Same day.

A gun that has proven to shoot moa at 500 yards is better than a gun that has only been proven at 100 yards, until it is also able to prove itself at 500 yards. Which it may not be able to do, in spite of shooting moa at 100 yards.

You are assuming that accuracy is linear. It often isn't, for several reasons.

So saying what distance a group was shot at is relevant information.

Guess that hasn't been my experience .... typically it's my lousy shooting if my 1" @ 100 yards rifle isn't holding 3" @ 300 yards. But I guess I could agree with needing to be proven at a certian distance .... Its still a pet peeve .... Just doesn't sound correct ....

When quantifying any event, it's always best to provide all the data. Short range stuff is more doable, because one has less in the way of wind issues.

Anyone that does moa at 1K is likely doing much less than that at 100 yds.

One could also experience some parallax issues and do well at a mid range and go to hell near and far. This is probably the problem when folks are arguing the "going to sleep story."

Still, I'd agree that moa at any defined range is a reasonable goal.

I figure if someone says it is sub MOA at 100, he is just testifying to the distance he has actually shot it. (maybe)

I may have been giving undue credit all this time for actual experience when I read that line.

Thats the first thing that occured to me too...and Ive found the bullet/load being used can often be the culprit..
I have a number of rifles that shoot sub-moa the whole way out with certain loads, but with other loads, sub-moa only at 100 yds...

it helps to remember this is the internet. gotta love anonymity.

Since there are many, many more 100 yard rifle ranges than 500 yard ranges, it stands to reason. I understand that a MOA doesn't change but at 100 yards, that term and 1 inch are pretty much used interchangably.
The disturbances that affect the shooter/rifle/bullet are not straight line out to whatever distance. As the bullet's velocity changes, and the distance changes, the effects of these disturbances intensify.
I'm sure everyone in here can do it but I think a shooter that can consistantly hold 1 MOA at 500 yards probably spends more time on the firing range than the internet.

My range only goes to 300 yards, and I shoot that distance often. The funny part is when the wind is down, or very consistent, I quite often do better MOA wise at 300 than at 100 when I'm shooting my heavier 308s.

No, it isn't parallax.

No, it isn't long VLD bullets settling down.

For some reason I can feel myself doing a better job of managing the trigger when I'm looking at the 300 yard target.

And there it is. I can't offer an informed theoretical explanation for it, but I've surely observed it empirically. It's a well known phenomenon among shooters in the long range competitive disciplines.

Paul

I have frequently found all of three or four sets of rounds shooting under an inch at 100 years, but changing over distance of 200 or 300 yards. Generally only one or two rounds are still holding three-round shots under MOA at 300 yards. Pretty clear that the issues are within the cartridges rather than me, although sometimes that is an issue too .

Dennis

I think bullet instability isn't always evident until you start shooting 200+. I have had loads that shot great at 100, only to start spraying at 200+. Back to the drawing board...

As much as I try to maximize performance regardless of range, I too know that more concentration and effort go into long range attempts.

I dont know but a handfull of people who can judge field distances (+/- 25 yards) beyond 300 in varied terrains.
For most they over-estimate range in open slopping terrain. The problem is only compounded when you add super-scopes into the mix.
for me, i have to intentionally pick a spot thats longer than 100 yards as most my hunting areas are wooded.
Not that shooting out there is an issue, i'd just rather use large areas as scouting and then try to close the distance by foot.
seems more fun.

So, I get the original point, but has anyone ever had a rifle that wouldn't group worth a flip at 100 but was a pretty good shooter farther out? I had a 6.5x55 that wouldn't do better than 3 inches at 100, yet at 300 it was still at 3 to 4 inches.

I have, but dialing out parallax has always been a fix.

avagadro...
other pet peeves to consider

the word Irregardless.

Hot water heater (I mean...what'd be the point?)

my daughters phrase "overexaggerate" - how does one judge the proper amount?

the term- out of the box accuracy!

the term..inherent accuracy

the gun salesman telling me 308's are more accurate than 270's because they arc to the target.

people who say after fifteen minutes of ramble, "long story short".

Axle Rose voice


...sure there are others but...that has me feeling better already.

Dennis and dogcatcher are on it, I think....bullets that group good at short distance don't necessarily shoot good at long distance.....minor variations and flaws in jackets,cores, meplat and ogive not apparent at short distances will show at longer distances.

It is no accident that certain match bullets hold up well at long range.

Some bullets just show "good" as distances stretch...others not quite as well.

There is such a thing as bullet "yaw",and some bullets will show less than stellar groups at shorter distances, but go to sleep as distance increases,shooting relatively better groups at longer range.I don't think this is entirely parallax,although some of that no doubt goes on as well.

Definition: Out of the box accuracy - being able to hit her in the eye

tuna fish sammich - is there a tuna cow sammich? Or tuna chicken?