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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 52,680
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 52,680 |
Jeff-O, I'm trying to convince you that a 200 yard zero is much better than a 100 yard zero. Zeroing a high velocity rifle at 100 yards is the very antithesis of the KISS principle. A 270 or 30-06 zeroed at 200 yards actually simplifies things considerably, and increases the odds for success. The mid-range trajectory of a 270/130 with a 200 yard zero is closer to 1-1/2 inches. You don't have to think about anything to hit a 3-inch circle from zero to 230 yards. THAT is simple!
You would have better luck pounding your head against the wall.........
Liberalism is a mental disorder that leads to social disease.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,082
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,082 |
I don't know if it is right or not but, I zero in all my hunting rifles (with the exception of my 30-30 Win) at 200 yards. My 30-30 is zero'd in at 100 yards. My rifles include a 223, 25-06, 300 Win Mag and 358 Win. It just seems to work for me, based on the way I hunt. It might be different if I were punching paper.
Start young, hunt hard, and enjoy God's bounty.
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,833 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,833 Likes: 4 |
I xero most of my rifles for big game at 3.5 inches high at 100 yds...
the average deer is 16 to 18 inches from backbone to breast bone..
antelope are about 14 inches from Backbone to Breast bone..
so I use that as the example... doesn't matter about weight..
take that 14 inches and cut it in half... and you have 7 inches..
I use that as my window of opportunity...so I then figure my 'window of opportunity' is 3.5 inches high at 100 yds to 3.5 inches low...where ever that may be...
MV of my load will tell me what the trajectory will be...
where ever 3.5 inches low falls, is my max point blank range...
works pretty darn well....
if the animal is beyond what my point blank range works out to be, then if I use the lower post below the cross hairs, where they go from thick to thin... that will add about 100 extra yards at point blank range...
with most loads with spitzer bullets, that makes point blank range between 350 to 450 yds... depending where the MV was chrony'ed at...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,735
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,735 |
I zero for 200 with almost all my rifles. I have a S & B with odd turrets that one click gives me 300 and 3 clicks gives me 400 so that one stays zeroed at 100 to make the 300 and 400 work.
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
I have no idea why a 200 yard is better than a 100 yard or whatever. Nothing beats bullet/crosshair meeting.
I've I'm hunting thick woods keep it close, if it's far more open or I'm hunting Wyoming the next day, all I need do is spin a turret a bit and now I have a 200 yard or 300 yard or whatever I feel like running zero.
Zeros can be moved at whim to match area, mood or moon phases.
Last edited by Steelhead; 03/14/12.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,428
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,428 |
Ive zeroed all my big game rifles at 3.5" high at 100 yards it works rather well, and Ive had no need to change as I tend to hold low center chest on close shots and out to easily 200 yards on all my rifles it hits very close to the intended impact point
lets look at two fairly different cartridges my partners uses the 358 diam 250 speer bullets in his 358 win I use the .338 diam,. 250 grain hornadys in my 340 wby
my late hunting partner thought the 358 win in his BLR was the ultimate ELK combo, he sighted in at 3.5" high at 100 yards, that gave this trajectory
Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 2300 -1.5 0
50 2206 1.91 0
100 2118 3.53
150 2031 3.21
200 1947 0.76
250 1865 -3.98
300 1785 -11.24
350 1708 -21.23
400 1634 -34.2
450 1563 -50.42
500 1494 -70.21
IVE preferred to use my 340 wby resulting in this trajectory
Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 2900 -1.5 0
50 2790 1.53
100 2688 3.46
150 2588 4.16
200 2491 3.57
250 2396 1.56
300 2303 -1.96
350 2213 -7.12
400 2124 -14.07
450 2037 -22.96
500 1953 -33.93
obviously the 340 shoots incredibly flat compared to the 358 win
but the advantage is almost non-existent in that neither of us over a period of almost 30 years of hunting almost every year had shots at elk over 250 yards, and no elk or mule deer has ever just run off more than a few yards after being hit with either rifles 250 grain bullet
Last edited by 340mag; 03/18/12.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 135
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 135 |
I would say either an inch or two high at a 100 yards. That is obviously influenced by the rifle and load your shooting and the conditions your hunting in.
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,913 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2007
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For woods hunting here in alabama, I usually set a 100 yard zero. Mainly for two purposes. One, I've never shot a deer in this state more than 120 yards away. and Two: when taking a meat doe...if possible I like to take a head shot and thus want the most precise correlation between cross hair and bullet impact.
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,218
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2004
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I have found that with most any spitzer flat based bullet going at 2800fps or better zeroed 1" high at 100 yards will put you around 2" low at 200 yards. Worked for me for many years.
Karma and Trouble have busses, and there's always an empty seat.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651 |
...
Put short -
selecting a 100 yard zero gives you 1 zero point ... Saw that and my first thought was �Just how high is the scope mounted � 5 inches? More?� Then I broke out the �Point Blank� calculator. Point Blank, with the specified load and default 70 temp, 500ft altitude and 1.5� scope height, says the first zero point occurs a hair over 60 yards when the second is at 100. In any case, I don�t pick 100 or 200 or anything else for my zeros. Instead I choose a max rise of 3� (Maximum Point Blank method) and let the zero points fall where they may. For my Marlin levers (.30-30, .375 Win and .45-70) that generally works out to max rise of 3� at around 100 yards, a zero of around 170-180 yards and a MPBE (-3�) somewhere in the 200-210 yard range. The zero for the bolts generally turns out to be in the 250-280 yard range with MPBR (-3�) in the 280-320 yard range. The thing I like about this method is that I know bullet rise will never be more than 3�, regardless of the rifle I�m using. With the levers I don�t really worry about drop until 200 yards. Assuming a broadside and inside 300 with any of the bolts, a hold on center in line with or just behind the front leg is a kill shot on deer and elk.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312 |
Jeff-O, I'm trying to convince you that a 200 yard zero is much better than a 100 yard zero. Zeroing a high velocity rifle at 100 yards is the very antithesis of the KISS principle. A 270 or 30-06 zeroed at 200 yards actually simplifies things considerably, and increases the odds for success. The mid-range trajectory of a 270/130 with a 200 yard zero is closer to 1-1/2 inches. You don't have to think about anything to hit a 3-inch circle from zero to 230 yards. THAT is simple!
I hear you and it makes sense. That's what I do for a rifle that's going to more open country. I was under the impression that this was about woods rifles. I expect that everyone's MMV, but for me, my woods rifles are used up-close often in some thick stuff. I just like the 100-yd zero in that case. From up close to well over 100 yards it's hitting real close to POA. As Steelhead said, and I said earlier, if you are running a turret then clicking up to whatever yardage and again, hitting POA gives me the warm and fuzzies. A 100-yd baseline zero, and a scope you trust to track well, is ideal IMHO.
The CENTER will hold.
Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two
FÜCK PUTIN!
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,950
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,950 |
Yes sir. Mine is certainly not the only way. Possibly I dispense advice too frequently. Just go out and kill something delicious and make us proud. 
Our God reigns.
Harrumph!!!
I often use quick reply. My posts are not directed toward any specific person unless I mention them by name.
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312 |
I need to kill me another delicious elk or two <grin>.
The CENTER will hold.
Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two
FÜCK PUTIN!
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 32,135 Likes: 3
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 32,135 Likes: 3 |
Lots of bad advice for woods hunting! About 90% of my shots are between 50-150 yards, and more often than not I can only see a small part of the animal I'm shooting at because of obstructions between me and the animal. Shooting bullets through softball sized openings is not a good idea when your bullets may be several inches above your line of sight.
I zero dead on at 100 yards. The bullet will never be more than 1" either above or below my line of sight between about 30 yards out to about 130 yards. Which is exactly where almost all of us shoot, even in the more open Western states. If for some reason I need to take the rare 300 yard shot all of my rifles shoot flat enough to still hold on hair and make hits. My 30-06 will be about 11" low @300 with a 100 yard zero, it will be almost 7" low with a 200 yard zero.
I don't see any point in complicating things at the ranges we do most of our shooting while offering no real advantage at the extreme ranges where we are least likely to shoot.
The idea of zeroing 2" or more high at 100 yards is only helpful if you plan on doing all your shooting beyond 300 yards, or if you have a rifle that does not shoot flat. Even if you do plan on shooting longer than 300 yards you would be better off using a scope with dots or adjustable turrets. I wish I could say I have had all these "problems" at close range cited here;I have not despite killing bucks as close as 20 feet to over 400 yards with the same 3" high zero(far more than once); but I have not...despite having to deal with both conditions on the same day and hunt I have even used such a zero to clip heads off grouse at close range... I would rather deal with an inch of midrange at 100 yards, than with a foot of drop at 300. I hate to sound indifferent to all these alleged difficulties brought about by doing it all "wrong",but I have found killing deer at woods ranges with a 270 or anything similar zeroed 3" high at 100 yards,pretty simple,and don't understand all the fuss... I don't need either dots, or turrets, to kill neatly at 400 yards....but if you insist on a 100 yard zero because of all its' "advantages"...you certainly will. What Bob said... As I previously stated. I sight my rifles in anywhere from 2-3 inches hikgh at 100, hatever works out on the range. I'm not real picky, but I am cheap- er- economical,,, and I see no point in burning up several more rounds for that last half inch or so... Critters over 100 yards get lung-shot anyway... My .338 "moose rifle" is currently printing some Sub MOA "junk" Hornady RN handloads at 2" high at 100. I've 3 rounds left of some sub MOA Sierra rounds that are printing at this same setting 3.5 inches high at 100. I figure I'm good for way the hell out there!!!...... my average moose kill for 20 bulls is about 60 yards...- none over 160 yards. Oh, yeah - at 100 yards or less- I CNS shoot the moose, if the shot is there - having lost two lung-shot ones over the years long enough (over-night) for the meat to taint. 'Course, moose are big targets, including the CNS.. milage may vary with them puny deer....
The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312 |
My .358. I like how at the ranges I use it at, it hits to POA. ![[Linked Image]](http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r111/handwired/1e2ffae9.jpg)
The CENTER will hold.
Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two
FÜCK PUTIN!
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 32,135 Likes: 3
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 32,135 Likes: 3 |
My .358. I like how at the ranges I use it at, it hits to POA.
What it is all about. Conditions/ caliber preferences vary, but If it kills the critter cleanly. it's all good.
The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,833 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,833 Likes: 4 |
I hunt woods ranges locally... set the zero at 100.. but usually there is no real difference between 50 and 100...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 16,971 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 16,971 Likes: 1 |
Bar none the best zero is set to the distance you shoot most of you critters at.
Now some folks don't do that and they follow more of a longer or shorter practice. Depends if your hunting woods or not for me.
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