Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Time For Class Proving Evolution

TFE? Does not compute

So, you say that anyone whose DNA is different from "the norm" can't reproduce, so all humans have identical DNA eh? Get real.

You are FOS (that does compute easily). All species have genetic variation and that variation is then available to be acted up on by selection and drift and that means evolution happens. You can't stop it. It is inevitable. That is exactly why you are FOS. This really isn't hard to understand you know. You need to find us a mechanism that prevents variation or at least keeps the variation invariant. And that just doesn't exist because they DO reproduce.

PS. Horses and donks are two different species. Restrict your answer to that which is within a species and then we will get to the horses and donks because they come next.

I said that God commanded the waters to bring forth life. That implies that nature did it, at God's behest.

I wasn't there, so I don't know how nature accomplished that divine command, but probably by some natural process.

The farthest the fossil record goes is to tell us that for the vast majority of the "history" of life on earth, all living organisms were single cell. It is hypothesized, with much scientific support, that these single celled organism eventually organized symbiotically into complex colonies, wherein different types of single cell organisms served different functions for the colony, i.e., became super specialized in function to the point that they could only reproduce and live within the colony. These colonies, as they continued to adapt to changing environments, gradually took on the characteristics of whole, multicellular, organisms, and reproducing by means of briefly joining with other colonies to exchange genetic material, thus giving rise to much greater genetic variation and the potential for more complex multicellular forms, the earliest of which were perhaps something like nematodes.

Evidence for this colony/symbiosis theory is that within each of our cells is another single cell organism that has DNA that's distinct from our own. They are called mitochondria. They live in our cells, yet are also single celled organisms in their own right nearly indistinguishable from ordinary bacteria. In fact the prevailing theory is that they are in fact highly specialized bacteria that joined a cell colony billions of years ago that became the first multicellular life form capable of reproduction by exchange of genetic material with another colony (sex) and evolved into all the more complex multicellular life forms we know today.

Plants have them too, but in plants they're called chloroplasts.

A nematode, which is little more than a complex colony of cooperating specialized cells contained within a membrane:

Did not mean to mis-quote you. To say God did it, however, that happened to be goes beyond natural to me.

I am mostly interested in the theories behind the "natural" phenomena that took the primordial soup from dead matter to life in the sense that it developed out randomly, completely out of chaos.

But, I'm still a bit hung up on the cooling rock, floating in space that just happens to have water, which is a bit of an oddity in itself and as this igneous mass cools, a primordial substance develops with all of the elements seen on earth today.

But, you are right in the sense that no one was there to witness it. So, faith it is.

Scientists don't much mess with faith when doing science, but they do readily engage in hypothesis formation based on best available evidence, followed by attempts by other scientists to tear down those hypotheses also based on best available evidence. They are far from certain about the formation of the first single cell life forms, since there's very little factual evidence to operate on other than a good guess about the environment in which they first came into existence. By today's standards, that environment was highly toxic, but the earliest organisms just loved it. In fact, when oxygen first came along as a waste product of green plant life, it was a toxic pollutant to most early life forms, and killed most of them off in a mass extinction. The survivors, however, actually made use of this pollutant, and prospered in a high oxygen environment. That's why we like oxygen so much.

In that case can we expect the Portland Blazers to evolove into a living organism?

TAK,

Do you know the difference between 'genetic code' and 'genome'?

You are technically right regarding a hypothetical organism with a deviated genetic code not being able to reproduce but not for the reason you think. Has nothing to do with how mules are made.

Sounds like the fermentation in the primordial soup theory is being replaced.

Kinda like Joseph Lister and his theroy of germs? What happend to him? O yea. The scientific community killed him for his minority view!

Do you think Jon Sanlin does? He invented the gene gun. He has over seventy patents in botany. He taught the graduate students at Cornell University for twenty-five years. He wrote Genetic Entropy and the Mystery of the Genome.

And what happened to him after all those years when he decided to investigate mutations? He became a young earth creationist!

I remember reading about "primordial soup" when I was a kid back in the 1970s. I remember finding it fascinating. I also read The Naked Ape back then, and also enjoyed it. Been studying this stuff ever since as a hobby.

Yes, the genome equals 23pr in a human. Code refers to A-T-C-G sequencing.

You are FOS about "mules" having nothing to do with this specious arguement you cooked up.

That would be Miller-Urey. I'da figured you'd have that one memorized, that's part of Darwin's Catechism. It was BS then and it still is.

And what would a deviated genetic code mean biologically? And it has nothing to do with anything I am cooking up.

Variations resulting in evolutionary change occur more gradually than a horse giving birth to a mule. You wouldn't be able to detect any difference from one generation to the next, and if it were favorable, it would only be slightly favorable (e.g., a slightly longer neck), resulting in that line only slightly out competing those without that slight variation during times of survival stress.

I dunno, something to do with mutants?

The ghost of Stephan Jay Gould says you are completely FOS.

Oh, Brent TFE= too [bleep] easy.

Sort of thinking about that theory myself.

Even with Gould's Punctuated Equilibrium, figuring there are 8.7 million species on earth now and just for grins, say 7.3 million either are extinct, or didn't make it in the natural selection process, just to make the math easy, then in 4 billion yrs, there would need to be at least 1 successful macro-mutation every 250 yrs.

Meaningless statistics, like sarcasm, is just one more free service I offer.

You must must mean John Sanford and not Jon Sanlin. Have you even read anything by John Sanford? If you had, you probably would not confused/misspell both his first and last name. Putting his writings underneath your pillow every night and thanking God for creating osmosis is not the same.

His early work with manipulation of plant genetics is mostly solid stuff. When he started up with ID, poor fellow, most if not all of his colleagues started to dismiss him and for good reason. Crazy talk being one of them.

Partial credit. Try again.

Proving Ben Stein correct, of course. You people make this schit TFE (Get that one Brent)