|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,999
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,999 |
The intellectuals had it all figured out in the days of Jesus. It was a stroke of luck when they wrapped the seemingly dead Jesus in a death shroud that once held moldy oranges. The huge dose of penicillin from the shroud beat down the infection from the grievous wounds Jesus got from the rusty nails and and multiple spear jabs to the gut. Three day later, Jesus was able to get up and go look for some Easter breakfast. Took 1,928 years after for an intellectual to figure that out. My fiction is more factual than yours.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,958 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,958 Likes: 6 |
As is your norm, you've misunderstood Gould. When a paleontologist or an evolutionary biologist uses the phrase "sudden alteration" or "sudden speciation," they don't mean "sudden" in terms of a historical time frame, but in a geological time frame, i.e., "sudden" compared to what was believed previously by paleontologists and evolutionary biologists.
The early prevailing theories were that change is a gradual and steady state, without significant pauses in the process, but Gould proposed that, per species, there were long periods of relative stability, punctuated by "sudden" changes here and there, in response to the "sudden" appearance of environmental stressors. Again, "sudden" being relative to geological scales of time, not historical scales of time. To you and me, that's still extremely gradual, on the scale of millions of years for a slight alteration to be observable. In other words, even a "sudden" change on this scale would be not measurable by you even if you were born fifty-thousand years ago, and have been watching carefully till today. And why did he invent this concept? HE didn't. Goldsmith came up with it about twenty year prior. Some called it the hopefull monster mechinism. The idea was a turtle laid an egg and a bird was hatched. But why was this theory necessary? Because both scientists realized there are no transitional forms in the fossil record. So what we have is evolution happend too fast in the past to leave a record and it happens to slowly in the present to observe. Very convinent.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,062 Likes: 65
Campfire Sage
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,062 Likes: 65 |
And why did he invent this concept? HE didn't. Goldsmith came up with it about twenty year prior. Some called it the hopefull monster mechinism. The idea was a turtle laid an egg and a bird was hatched.
But why was this theory necessary? Because both scientists realized there are no transitional forms in the fossil record.
So what we have is evolution happend too fast in the past to leave a record and it happens to slowly in the present to observe. Very convinent.
Could you do us all a favor and actually read a scholarly text on evolution not written by a denier? A good one is Evolution, What the Fossil Record Says, and Why it Matters, by Prothero.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 11,738
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 11,738 |
Some called it the hopefull monster mechinism. The idea was a turtle laid an egg and a bird was hatched.
But why was this theory necessary? Because both scientists realized there are no transitional forms in the fossil record.
So what we have is evolution happend too fast in the past to leave a record and it happens to slowly in the present to observe. Very convinent. You keep saying this stuff, but not a word of it is true or factual. You seem to be stuck on fiction.
Save an elk, shoot a cow.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 33,856
Campfire 'Bwana
|
OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 33,856 |
now tell me how 2000 years ago He predicted the Jews getting their homeland, Sharon and Gaza, Blacks throwing off their yoke, the ^ day war where Israel was flighted to safety as if by the wings of an eagle, Israels enemies would break treaties to push them into the sea, we would build weapons that would burn for 2000 years, our overseers would have weapons to control us that would sting like a scorpion but not kill, etc. You believe in your brain. I'll believe in it's Creator.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of patriots and tyrants.
If being stupid allows me to believe in Him, I'd wish to be a retard. Eisenhower and G Washington should be good company.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,999
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,999 |
now tell me how 2000 years ago He predicted the Jews getting their homeland, Sharon and Gaza, Blacks throwing off their yoke, the ^ day war where Israel was flighted to safety as if by the wings of an eagle, Israels enemies would break treaties to push them into the sea, we would build weapons that would burn for 2000 years, our overseers would have weapons to control us that would sting like a scorpion but not kill, etc. You believe in your brain. I'll believe in it's Creator. Self fulfilling prophesy as a certain nice smell to it. No Voo Doo farts necessary. It has not gone unnoticed that you have a certain inability to focus and stay on topic though. Why is that? Oppps. That was OT as well. Guess mea cupea too.
Last edited by carbon12; 03/21/12. Reason: misspelled invocations.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,170
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,170 |
You must must mean John Sanford and not Jon Sanlin. Have you even read anything by John Sanford? If you had, you probably would not confused/misspell both his first and last name. Putting his writings underneath your pillow every night and thanking God for creating osmosis is not the same. Thanks for the correction. I have had trouble spelling at least since the fourth grade. I read his book and was fasinated by it. I especially liked the part about him saying the accumulation of mutations in humans matches the exponintial decare rate of humans' life spans from about 900 down to about 100 year life expectancy. The idea that he is no longer respected is just like when I used to come up with ideas in rotory cutter head building. At the time the owner of a nationally known company told me that it was not posible. And then low and behold a few month later he comes out with a news release in the industry with my idea. being right is not always popular at the time. I question why John didn't publish his work in a peer reviewed setting? Could it be that he cherry picked and misrepresented data? or Ingnored overwheleming data that contradicted his arguement? Unlike Behe, who can be argued just didn't understand the error he made in his calculation, John Stanford's book can only be considered as purposeful piece of disinformation
The collection of taxes which are not absolutely required, which do not beyond reasonable doubt contribute to public welfare, is only a species of legalized larceny. Under this Republic the rewards of industry belong to those who earn them. Coolidge
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860 |
The intellectuals had it all figured out in the days of Jesus. It was a stroke of luck when they wrapped the seemingly dead Jesus in a death shroud that once held moldy oranges. The huge dose of penicillin from the shroud beat down the infection from the grievous wounds Jesus got from the rusty nails and and multiple spear jabs to the gut. Three day later, Jesus was able to get up and go look for some Easter breakfast. Took 1,928 years after for an intellectual to figure that out. My fiction is more factual than yours. Ya know, you are a much bigger azzhole than I imagined.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,170
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,170 |
For those who have no idea what we are posting aobut I decided to look up his book on Amazon.com and get a tiny bit of information about his book. I bolded a couple points.
Dr. John Sanford, a retired Cornell Professor, shows in Genetic Entropy and the Mystery of the Genome that the "Primary Axiom" is false. The Primary Axiom is the foundational evolutionary premise - that life is merely the result of mutations and natural selection. In addition to showing compelling theoretical evidence that whole genomes can not evolve upward, Dr. Sanford presents strong evidence that higher genomes must in fact degenerate over time. This book strongly refutes the Darwinian concept that man is just the result of a random and pointless natural process.
I am sure that you have read some of the critics of his book, yes? If you took the 10 minutes to even scimm Kimoras original paper you know that John Stanford, either didn't understand (very unlikely considering his background) or willfully misrepresented the core data he quoted. his whole arguement about the frequency of benficial mutations is wrong, and was proved wrong in the paper John began began by quoting.
The collection of taxes which are not absolutely required, which do not beyond reasonable doubt contribute to public welfare, is only a species of legalized larceny. Under this Republic the rewards of industry belong to those who earn them. Coolidge
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,999
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,999 |
The intellectuals had it all figured out in the days of Jesus. It was a stroke of luck when they wrapped the seemingly dead Jesus in a death shroud that once held moldy oranges. The huge dose of penicillin from the shroud beat down the infection from the grievous wounds Jesus got from the rusty nails and and multiple spear jabs to the gut. Three day later, Jesus was able to get up and go look for some Easter breakfast. Took 1,928 years after for an intellectual to figure that out. My fiction is more factual than yours. Ya know, you are a much bigger azzhole than I imagined. Thank you. Can't imagine expecting any higher praise for just a mediocre beat down.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,999
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,999 |
For those who have no idea what we are posting aobut I decided to look up his book on Amazon.com and get a tiny bit of information about his book. I bolded a couple points.
Dr. John Sanford, a retired Cornell Professor, shows in Genetic Entropy and the Mystery of the Genome that the "Primary Axiom" is false. The Primary Axiom is the foundational evolutionary premise - that life is merely the result of mutations and natural selection. In addition to showing compelling theoretical evidence that whole genomes can not evolve upward, Dr. Sanford presents strong evidence that higher genomes must in fact degenerate over time. This book strongly refutes the Darwinian concept that man is just the result of a random and pointless natural process.
I am sure that you have read some of the critics of his book, yes? If you took the 10 minutes to even scimm Kimoras original paper you know that John Stanford, either didn't understand (very unlikely considering his background) or willfully misrepresented the core data he quoted. his whole arguement about the frequency of benficial mutations is wrong, and was proved wrong in the paper John began began by quoting. Frequency not withstanding, determining what is a beneficial vs. detrimental mutation is it's own tar pit considering all the ways polymerases , gene activators, repressors, etc go about doing the cell's business. Moreover, what will kill under one set of environmental circumstances will save it's ass under another. The "irreducible complexity" argument not only has a time stamp but only sometimes works for you.... until it doesn't. The mirthful irony of Sanford using Murphy's Law to illustrate 'Genomic Entropy' is that Murphy's Law particularly applies to 'Genomic Entropy'.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,464
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,464 |
This is like watching the opening phases of Operation Iraqui Freedom, with the creationists in the role of the Iraqi Minister of Information.
Murphy was an optimist.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,958 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,958 Likes: 6 |
John Stanford's book can only be considered as purposeful piece of disinformation Only by those who refuse to see the truth that mutations go the wrong way for evoluton to work.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 11,738
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 11,738 |
John Stanford's book can only be considered as purposeful piece of disinformation Only by those who refuse to see the truth that mutations go the wrong way for evoluton to work. Why would you say that when clearly they do not always go "the wrong way"?
Save an elk, shoot a cow.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 33,856
Campfire 'Bwana
|
OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 33,856 |
If a turtle laid an egg that hatched a bird, what did the bird breed with. I doubt the turtle could catch a bird to mate, and if so, the bird would be ate.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of patriots and tyrants.
If being stupid allows me to believe in Him, I'd wish to be a retard. Eisenhower and G Washington should be good company.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 11,738
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 11,738 |
Who said a turtle hatched a bird? No one except an idiot would say that an certainly no evolutionary biologist ever did. Why do you keep making up nonsense?
Save an elk, shoot a cow.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,999
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,999 |
If a turtle laid an egg that hatched a bird, what did the bird breed with. I doubt the turtle could catch a bird to mate, and if so, the bird would be ate. Saved. Except for almost everything, the post is almost Haiku-like.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,999
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,999 |
John Stanford's book can only be considered as purposeful piece of disinformation Only by those who refuse to see the truth that mutations go the wrong way for evoluton to work. If God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost are all about truth, they can't be too happy that you keep mouthing the stuff that you do.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 33,856
Campfire 'Bwana
|
OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 33,856 |
Who said a turtle hatched a bird? No one except an idiot would say that an certainly no evolutionary biologist ever did. Why do you keep making up nonsense?
Isn't that what Gould or Goldsmith postulated? Regardless, if I came from an ape, I wouldn't loose any sleep over it.
Last edited by eyeball; 03/21/12.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of patriots and tyrants.
If being stupid allows me to believe in Him, I'd wish to be a retard. Eisenhower and G Washington should be good company.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,999
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,999 |
Who said a turtle hatched a bird? No one except an idiot would say that an certainly no evolutionary biologist ever did. Why do you keep making up nonsense?
Isn't that what Gould or Goldsmith postulated? Regardless, if I came from an ape, I wouldn't loose any sleep over it. Dang it. Saddling up this morning, I think I lost a hat size just bantering with you. No way you could have come from your ma or pa doing it with an ape but for sure you share an ancestor with the ape. Just so you don't misunderstand, this post is not me saying your family is doing it with apes. That was actually fun to not say.
|
|
|
|
94 members (426crown, anothergun, 35, arky65, 300_savage, 10 invisible),
17,093
guests, and
829
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,194,880
Posts18,538,197
Members74,050
|
Most Online20,796 Yesterday at 04:44 PM
|
|
|
|