Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Family: Florida man didn't kill black teen in self-defense

YES and YES. You really oughta' start doing some research before spouting off.

No one is questioning that you can have an opinion.
But the cheap shot about Texans pretty much sums you up in my minds eye as a condesending prick.

Not a cheap shot just a tested theory that I've been able to repeat and confirm.

Well can you provide me with a link that shows he chased this kid.
Although he really should have listened to the 911 operator as the police had been dispatched he was in no way obligated to follow that persons instructions.
So if this guy was part of some sort of neighborhood watch I can find no issues with him following some suspicious person in his vehicle at a safe distance to keep an eye on him.
Again he should have stayed in the car.
However listening to a lot of people,the Congressperson,news media,they are saying the POLICE told him not to do this and he chased this kid down.
Now if the last part is true then in my opinion he provoked a fight and he's toast.
But again what ARE the true facts as again the police did not arrest him after the shooting.
And I am NOT going at this as a black/white thing.

Well you know what they say about opinions and body parts.

He is of Spanish Descent thus Hispanic. If his ancestors had not bred outside the White Race in cuba then are you insinuating that there are no Caucasians in Spain ?

Yes, we do need to know all the facts (and they are not available now) before judging. But, we do know that Zimmerman was instructed to not follow the kid and let the cops handle it. He chose to pursue the kid and unless we later find out that the kid attacked him (perhaps out of fear also?), Zimmerman's "fear" was unfounded.

I do believe Zimmerman will face trial on something.

I support the Castle Doctrine in many situations (in your home, on a street, etc.), but have problems when the pursuer becomes the aggressor. Just being afraid of someone does not give one license to shoot them. I've seen a lot a small women in elevators that seem apprehensive of some big guy standing next to them.

I'd let that one go ElkH. On a more relevant point and validading what some of us have said here regarding this issue being a new call for rescinding the Castle Law and Gun Control in general, the link below confirms it:

link

djs: If we follow your logic of a so-called victim becoming the aggressor, an argument will be made by the antis that once you fire your weapon you've indeed become the de-facto aggressor. If this guy indeed gave chase and shot this kid down he needs to hang but by the same token this incident should not be used as a catalyst for anti-gun measures (it already has, see my previous post above). Lastly and again, if the evidence is so overwhelming against this guy, why was he not arrested on the spot?

Well obviously a trial might be where this is heading.
But that depends on the Grand Jury finding.
Of course you know if the GJ rules against the plethora of Zimmerman dissenters a full blown riot will more than likely occur.
This is very worrisome situation.

About the only defense I can possibly see this jackass making is that somehow the kid tried to go for the gun he was carrying. And I've little doubt that sooner or later they will resort to this. Whether there is any truth to it or not I've no idea.

I picture myself walking down the street heading back from the 7-11 getting a can of Copenhagen or something. Some guy keeps following me in his car. I keep walking and he keeps following along very slowly in the car. Finally he pulls up beside me, gets out of his car and approaches me.

At this point his demeanor and attitude means everything. And if the 911 calls give any indication he was brimming over with a bad attitude.

Even something along the lines of 'What are you doing in this neighborhood?' said with the wrong tone of voice is going to get you into a fight pretty quickly. Even in the right tone of voice it's going to get you a '[bleep] off out of here, it's none of your business.' from me. And if he invades my space I'll probably unload on him either way. I've done it before.

The prospect of getting your ass kicked is not a viable reason to pull a gun and kill someone. Not for a man in the prime of his life. Not when he's the aggressor. Not when he is the reason this exchange is happening at all. Maybe for some old lady trying to get home with a bagful of groceries. Maybe for an old gentleman who is way past the point of mixing it up on the streets with some gun toting vigilante.

Even if they find the kids fingerprints on the gun I'll harbor doubts that the kid went for the gun. I'll still wonder whether he did or if this Zimmerman is just another coward who got his kicks by pushing people around because he had a gun in his possession.

Will

Not to throw more fire on the whole racial aspect, because I don't think it matters one bit, but the guy's name is Zimmerman. He is probably Jewish. I've known several Cuban's who were actually Jews. It was a pretty popular place for Jews leaving Europe in the 1930s to go to.

Your opinion earlier in this thread was that one of the two in this incident is innocent until proven guilty. Now you are making it clear that the other has no such consideration.

Got it. Carry on.

Race is the only reason this is news. A golden nugget for the liberal media.

Have you LOOKED at the recent track record of this particular "Police Department" ?

Might oughta', it is NOT a good one.

Lots more of the same, it would seem.

GTC

My prediction: GJ will come back with a true bill and the shooter will stand trial whereafter he will be spending a considerable amount of time in the state penitentiary.

Won't prove premeditation if they go for that payday but I can see a 2nd degree conviction or a plea to some sort of manslaughter being the culmination of this "butt our noses in" fiasco.

No I have not.
So by that I suppose the next step is the Justice Department will go after the police agency.

Oh yea..Penguin,my understanding is this was a gated community which is generally fenced.
I have heard his father(the dead kid) lived in the area but not in the gated community.
Then I also read he did.
Again lots of "facts" are being circulated by an awful lot of people and sources.
Anyone here positively know the truth about this "fact"??

SANFORD, Fla. � The attorney for the family of a black teenager fatally shot by a neighborhood watch captain said Tuesday that the boy was talking to his girlfriend on his cellphone when the confrontation began. She did not hear the shooting.

Their phone call was discussed at a news conference that followed announcements that the U.S. Justice Department would probe the death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin and that a local grand jury will also consider evidence in the case.

George Zimmerman, 28, claims he shot Martin in self-defense during a confrontation last month in a gated community in Sanford, Fla. Zimmerman spotted Martin as he was patrolling his neighborhood on a rainy evening and called 911 to report a suspicious person. Against the advice of the 911 dispatcher, Zimmerman then followed Martin, who was walking home from a convenience store with a bag of Skittles in his pocket.

Police have described Zimmerman as white; his family says he is Hispanic and not racist.

Attorney Benjamin Crump, who represents Martin's parents, said the teenager was on the phone with his girlfriend back home in Miami when he told her he was being followed. She said Martin told her someone was following him and that he was going to try to lose him. He thought he had lost Zimmerman but hadn't.

"He says, 'Oh he's right behind me, he's right behind me again,'" Crump says the girl told him. "She says run. He says I'm not going to run I'm just going to walk fast. She hears Trayvon say, 'Why are you following me?' Other voice says, 'What are you doing around here?'"

She told Crump they both repeated themselves and then she heard a scuffle begin "because (Martin's) voice changes like something interrupted his speech." She heard an altercation and then the phone call was cut off.

Within moments, according to Crump's timeline, Martin was shot. She didn't hear the gunfire.

Crump is not releasing the girl's name to protect her privacy.

Crump said he plans to turn over information about the call to federal investigators who are looking into the case. The Justice Department announced their involvement late Monday.

"The department will conduct a thorough and independent review of all the evidence and take appropriate action at the conclusion of the investigation," the agency said in an emailed statement

I'm not doing your research for ya' Bud.

That's your baby

regardless of the racial hype...
Armed man shoots armed unarmed man...
Tough sell in any jurisdiction.