Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters "kiss and find pressure"

Nothing bad about the info...just another way to get there...it's the dickhead part...

Low life IMOP

and my [bleep] aint stuck on the couch either.


Lefty C

Attitude??? I thought it was 'schtick (or something like that)

I would have to say however, that the peculiar phrasing of the message is a bit more memorable for me than average.

Well then I'd make you giggle Tanner. You'd be surprised how ladder testing for accuracy nodes can help your long-range game.

Been told that shooting a LOT at long range help too. Accuracy node or no.

Comes from a Source that I'd put implicit faith upon and who likes to cut to the [bleep] chase. Fact is,you'd do well to take notes and apply same.

Hint.

Curiously enough,in this Age Of Boobdom...noone shoots anymore and it's become "fashionable" for Dumbphucks to be "educated" well beyond their intelligence and to wax eloquent upon those "findings". None of this schit is hard,but it's entertaining that many profess just that,to be the case. Joe Average ain't very bright and Myths,Wives Tales and outright Stupidity are perpetuated in said circles and the resulting "ideas" are cast in stone(stoned would be more apt). Please note that I'm not slighting the inherent humor,as I'm routinely cracked the right the [bleep] up and have zero wish for such delights to come to an end.

Anywhoo...no matter the centerfire chambering or the platform in which it based upon,all will make pressure(just how much ACTUAL pressure,is a far more concise facet). That is a given and much to the chagrin of apparently many(the cusp of which humor is predicated upon,if only to come full circle). So it never ain't not funny,to let the masses and folks one would grant the presumptuous courtesy of knowing better,a stab at same. Routinely it is botched and horribly,though in ways that are impossible to predict,if only because I can't shift my brain into a low enough gear to do so. But dat's what makes schit soooooooooo funny,because a Joke isn't nearly as good once you know the punchline...even if you can pinpoint a Joker from a mile away!

No matter how you do it,reading pressure is something I'd liken akin to reading wind,though most aspects are glaring. Some can,some can't and most will never have even the faintest of a first [bleep] clue. In the end,these are The Good Old Days and despite the Huff & Puff,less a bore obstruction one isn't going to nuke a receiver or it's barrel,under the assumption the Operator's IQ is 18 or greater. I know that takes alotta Doom & Gloom outta the equation and prolly steals more than a little thunder from blue-hairs who've been Reloading for "40yrs" or whatever the case may be. I'd state simply,that folks that stupid ain't doing themselves no favors,by perpetual reiteration of just how slow of "learners" they are. They simply should take notes,apply same and much improve their Game. Re-hint.

As an aside,cartridge cases are routinely excellent Today,propellants amazingly consistent and one would have to have a Lobotomy,or shoot as "much" as Jeff-O to get into "trouble"...again under the courteous assumption of IQ being 18 or better(poor dumb Jeff-O's bane). Primers are oft maligned and that one always cracked me the [bleep] up too. Reality is,the vast percentage of folks are utterly and totally clueless in regards to headspace and it's funnier yet,because they don't have to fixate the countless other millions of rifles so chambered,yet only the one betwixt their mitts. Folks are curiously quick,to fixate upon the most MEANINGLESS of designators and bypass the constants associated with their own rifle(s). Never have [bleep] understood that one and forecast says,I never will. Though I'm ALL ears.

In fairness though,there's LOTSA misinformation out there,much of which is embraced and dispensed as "Gospel"...while it's simply horseschit as a BEST case scenario. In this Age Of Litigation,publications are in a frenzied hurry to yank plug wires out from under the hood,if only to shield themselves from Joe Average's "abilities". Boobs fawn over this schit and I'd wish things no other way.(grin) So as a means of default,most folks opening move is to take virgin hulls,screw a FL sizer down to cam over upon the shellholder,trim the schitt out things,opt an esoteric propellant,seat to a moot "Book" designator and schit goes rapidly downhill from there. If only because none of 'em savvy twist rate,throat geometry or COAL latitude...let alone in conjunction or their cause/effect(which is poignantly illuminated in this thread,as well as countless others). Add "tricky" stuff like newly adopted SAAMI offerings(despite their having been mainstream for decades),"Weatherby" throating,"Match" and "Tactical" schit and the sky is the [bleep] limit for initial and subsequent humor. One would be very hard pressed to set a more ripe stage for Comedy.

So with all of them things being far more constant than a given,take out your writing utensil and take some notes,if only because if I take the time to type it,you can take it to the [bleep] bank that if you apply same,things will simply markedly improve as per your results. It also cracks me the [bleep] up,to lead herds to water and watch 'em stand lock-legged and not drink,as if they are "showing" me something. Might could be my favorite,though admittedly there's a plethora of inherent humor to choose from!

As per always,start at the [bleep] start. Let's start from scratch,with a NIB over the counter purchase and though few things is funnier than mounting systems and glass selection,we'll initiate and retain focus upon the rifle proper and it's fodder. I'll happily beat up mounts/rings/glass/stocks/etc. at a later date,if only to slap the paper hats offa the Do-Nothing Gang and grant a podium for them to wax eloquently on the plight of Dumbphucktitude. I digress. Let's stay mainstream rifle,if only to embolden them foolish enough to chime in and try to "tell" me something.(grin) Beings it's a Hot Topic as of late,let's select a blasse',run of the mill,blued Remmie 700 in 243Win,if only to keep the Democrats stringin' along with their Welfare checks. Focus will be barreled action,stocks and the like to follow suit in the aforementioned Do-Nothing Gang bitchslap. Mounts/glass also largely being moot in this discussion,though a courtesy will be granted that the optic system is of enough merit to discern good fodder from bad.



Here we go. Now lonnngggggggg before yerking the trigger on a live round,the trigger needs love and that as per ALL Manufacturer's over the counter offerings. 700 adjustment instructions abound and if you can reliably hit a piece of toast,with a knife laden with butter,you is of the requisite "Technical Savvy" to perform this modest task. I'll grant a 3lb break being the fruits as per this discussion,despite my never slumming something that schitty in actuality. Along with said NIB rifle purchase,let's assume new (FL Redding)dies,brass,primers,propellant and moly boolits(Hornie 105HPBT)...the press,scale,trimmer,accoutrements being a generous given. In overview,it's always prudent to look before you leap. There's more than a buncha inherent mechanical advantages to a front locking dual-opposed turnbolt,of Today's metallurgy. That in and of itself,precludes much [bleep] around in general and ups the platform's inherent ability to reliably harness increased pressure levels by default. If you can't savvy that,get the [bleep] outta this Thread(NOW!).

Punch the bore with a snugged cotton covered jag,if only to re-verify there's no bore obstruction from Shipping or the Manufacturer(elder Colt AR's shipped with a desiccant rod inside the bore's length,if only for conversation). Clean boltface/plunger and set rifle upon Loading Bench. Open bag of new brass,dies and boolits. Lube cases(write this down twice,go aerosol OneShot). Open die box and throw the [bleep] "Instructions" away,by burning them in the backyard and piss on the ashes. Grab the FL sizer and unscrew the stem from the top. Hit internal of die body with Starting Fluid,swab out with #0000 Steel Wool(I like a pistole cleaning rod with it's aft bent to 90 degrees affixed with an undersized nylon brush,upon which to wrap the virgin 'Wool) in the snugtitude diameter. Grab seater,unscrew seater plug and follow suit. Yessssss...no schit,a seater body should be grossly oversize of chamber dimensions,but I ain't taking a [bleep] Poll on how to [bleep] schit up. Just sayin'. Furthermore,the seater plug's internal recess needs a like amount of love.

Back to the Sizer. While it's mid-body lock ring is likely loose,verify and spin it up,up and away,towards the stem. Place correct shellholder in press,stroke ram to bring shellholder to the extent of it's upstroke,screw die into press and spin until it contacts shellholder. From there,back die body off shellholder TWO complete revolutions and meet that juncture with the lock ring(do not tighten set screw). Lube the entire contents of that given lot of virgin hulls,step back into the backyard and take another piss on them ashes. Grab your MOST important piece of reloading Equipment(the $.99 Black Magic Marker) and color a lubed case neck's full length and circumference. Run said hull into die and eyephuck it. You'll note that only a portion of the neck has been sized,though constriction and uniformity are now much in order. With muzzle to ground and bolt open,simply place sized virgin into the chamber and close bolt(my marked preference is to neck down a Parent donor hull to initially establish positive headspace control,but that'd snap most reading this). Note how bolt closes and easily. From the aforementioned shell block of lubed virgins,randomly grab a few more samples and confirm they follow suit(they will). Now size the entire lot in accordance.

Nextly,grab the hull that wears the black ink and place it in the shellholder. Remove the sizer,install the seater into die top,but a coupla turns. Raise ram to it's upstroke position and screw down sizer until you feel it hit the case mouth. THAT is the schittiest of feelings,because you are dry humping a crimp and that's a great way to make a great rifle,"bad". Once you feel the casemouth,back off die 2 complete turns and tighten that lock ring,like you are going to rappel from it. No such thing as too [bleep] tight here!

Take the sized Virgin hull and internally debur it's mouth and perhaps make a light external pass too...but do not trim to length. Return hull to shellholder and reconfirm that the seating stem is backed nearly all the way out of the body. Take a 105 Hornie HPBT and place it in mouth and upstroke ram,fishing to feel the seater nestle said boolit and start it into the case. Incrementally coax that 105 to 2.875" or so COAL(greater than 2.81" being the crux) via the stems adjustment to full upstroke and once established,again point the muzzle to the ground and nestle into chamber. For THE dumbest of [bleep],this(once again) is a sized virgin hull,less powder or primer. I re-digress...close bolt while fishing for resistance upon handle as lugs are locked into battery(impossible not to discern this). Tight ain't bad,as it denotes a happy throat(shorter than initial COAL attempt) and the setback of said boolit into said case. Extract the dummy round and examine same. You will note circumferential striations running lineal with the bore,which denote the land's location.


Hint(though this is a 223 dummy).



Repeat the seating process,until the land marks are "square",denoting that depth of engagement is equal to it's length,thus leaving a square footprint. Now note,how despite all the stupid [bleep] schit you read here,by an unparalleled cast of Do-Nothings Dumbphucks,that you've established YOUR rifle's throat location,with YOUR boolit of choice and how the conjunction nestles easily within YOUR rifle's OEM magbox. Now go back outside and piss on them ashes again. place said dummy in die box,mark it with the boolit/rifle particulars(though few suffer the "unfortunate" circumstances as I,having to feed so many like chambered spouts but good habits ain't ever bad). Return to bench and grab some CCI 200's and a pound of '17(nice load density being a given).

Curiously enough,you are now Logging,in regards to both sizing and seating operations,as geared towards YOUR rifle...with said boolit. Armed for your first time with such knowledge,you can experience success on a level thus far unobtainable. Simply prime with 200's(make love to seats and internal flashholes,ONLY if you must) and then select a starting charge weight. For giggles,start at a Minimum of your whim...if only because you are laying moly in a virgin spout. Load ONE and shoot it. Examine the empty for telltale signs of chamber concentricity or an oversight on your part(crud in the nether regions of the chamber). While headspace is yet to be confirmed(because false necks make too much [bleep] sense for most),an empty sooted in black around it's body/neck,denotes a Poosy Load. Simply put,the cases didn't have enough juice to expand to seal chamber walls,before gas exited and ran to the path(s) of least resistance(bore/chamber walls). Bump a grain and repeat. [bleep] shooting groups or paper targets at this point,focus solely on PRESSURE. [bleep] thing I ever heard,is to whistle away 5,10,20,etc. rounds of Goat [bleep] in minuscule increments,like the guy doing so...has a [bleep] clue. Too funny,as the "approach" is simply reiteration of Dumbphucktitude! I'd liken it akin,to seeing how much water you can put in your gas tank,before you car quits running. Personally,I'm a fan of removing water and cutting to the chase. Re-re-hint.

I've also NEVER understood why in the [bleep] someone would fabricate numerous rounds ahead,of a load that has yet to prove it's merit,in a given rifle?!!? It exemplifies pissing up a rope. Starting at the start,will only bear one thing and that is fruit. Simply bump charge weight,until you see the first sign of pressure. Tougher to do so less finite headspace control,but dat Treatise will be clung to like this one,after the fact. Remember,I can only getcha' to water.(grin) I can hear whining Do-Nothings now,fully coming unhinged at a "whopping" 1gr bump incrementally,in a rifle fed cases and boolits slated to IT'S mechanical constants and of 243Win case capacity. Ohhhhhhhhhhh schit!!!!!! ANYPHUCKING thing but THAT!!!!!!(grin) Reality is,there's zero [bleep] excitement,if only because there CANNOT be(less the aforementioned bore obstruction,in which case,load particulars become largely moot). I love this "Pressure Spike" schit too. Jesus God,WHO dreams this schit up?!!? Mebbe Jeff-O will be good enough to Imagine a chart and pretend once again,that she "knows" sumptin'? Laffin'!

"Pressure" is factored(manifested) in numerous ways,some correlate to velocity,others do not. The key notes here,which most are in a hurry to overlook(which is yet another basis of inherent hilarity),is the initial groundwork done in accordance to the rifle's particulars,loooonnnngggggg before firing a live round. While definitely "plausible",gross headspace issues have been negated. Throat particulars are founded and dealt in their accords. Pressure has been cautiously nudged from sedate,to whatever the end user deems requisite for their pursuits of interest( I like 3000fps as a 22" boltgun minimum,with a moly 105HPBT,due to case life,ES/SD,Agg's and overall mannerisms). Can/will someone reap 4000fps? Nope. 3500fps? Nope. 3200fps? Depends upon barrel length,how many times they wish to use the case and their pursuits of interest,along with chamber specs(Loosey-Goosey chambers compromise case integrity upon the virgin poke). Long story short,there will ALWAYS be details along the way,to correlate where one is at,in the relative realm of the performance which is possible.

Funny how good schit simply makes [bleep] sense,ain't it?!!?

I'm HOPING you "'think" I left windows of opportunity open on "accident". Formed cases,trim length after forming/sizing and secondary sizer reaffirmation,being a literal Treasure Trove of Dumbphucktitude.

Just sayin'.





MagnumDouche,

This is EPIC(and I quote in entirety):

"You can if you get a big enough case to load enough of a slow-burning powder in a long enough barrel. A specialty rifle no doubt; not something most would tote around the mountains in search of Elk."

Followed by a second scoop of Dumphucktitude and I again quote in entirety:

"Well then I'd make you giggle Tanner. You'd be surprised how ladder testing for accuracy nodes can help your long-range game."

For starters,feel free to cite your "Long Range" means/methods and "Long Range Specimens"...in no particular order. PLEASE feel free to use all of your Imagination and Pretend.

As an aside...pics is always nice and I dig your Bigsqueeze approach,to feign Death when summoned for pixels. Laffin!





Douche Adair,

The inherent humor that you fancy yourself as having a [bleep] clue...never wanes.


Congratulations?





Mule Deer,

Feel free to expound upon where you find me ever having been "mistaken". Laffin'.

Until then,swim in the shallow end of the pool which affords you to miss the dots. I'll not comment on your benign Lil'Gun K-Hornet "findings",gross ineptitude in regards to throating/pressure and your propensity to sidestep Today's boolits,cajole archaeic twist rates and swoon things a 5yr old would throw away,if found under a Christmas tree.

If only for starters...and I especially loved this latest BrainFart,which I quote in entirety.

You said:

"One of the things you're apparently assuming is that seating bullets deeper decreases case capacity. Instead, what we might call "functional powder capacity" is a result of the room inside the case PLUS the throat length.

This is why Roy Weatherby decided on freebore for most of his rifle cartridges, a throat so long that most bullets couldn't be seated anywhere near the rifling, at least if they were going to work from the magazine. Freebore lowers pressures, everything else being equal.

Essentially, seating bullets deeper creates freebore."

Too [bleep] funny! Now encroaching case volume "adds" capacity?!!? Hell...next you'll suggest anyone with a 7mm Rem mag seat their 175NPT a full .125" deeper to "equate" 7mmWby performance?!!? MUCH enjoying how throat diameter is equal or greater than case body volume.

Oooooops...the 7mmRem has "pressure spikes".

Wow!



Dakota',

Nice try.(grin)




'carbon,

Don't slight your [bleep].

Laffin'!




'qam,


"Been told that shooting a LOT at long range help too. Accuracy node or no."


Cheer up...spent primers remain THE Supreme Tutorial and neither Imagination nor Pretend change said constant.

A guy makes his own "luck".

Thanks.

Yep!

Used to do this, and shot more rounds "working up loads" than any other time. The stupidity stopped me, but not until I wasted crazy amounts of time and effort.

Laffin my ass off here. I still don't have furniture in my singlewide. But I do have a 22 yard indoor archery range

Boxer,

Gosh golly, someone nicer (and smarter) than you told me all that stuff over a decade ago, and ALL of the many thousands of rounds I've loaded and shot since then, were with full knowledge of where each rifle's lands are.

You act as if you are God's Gift, but really... I'm not seeing it. I mean if a dumbphuck Kouch [bleep] such as myself, who never even shoots the rifles he doesn't even have but only Imagines doing so, knows these things.... they can't be very Fancy Things, can they now?

I think tomorrow when I Imagine working up a new load for one of my Imaginary Rifles, and hopefully even shoot the [bleep] ([bleep] willing), I'm going to load it to 2.800 COAL just to give you the warm fuzzies. Lord knows you seem to need it. Heck, I won't even look in my Imaginary Rifle Data notebook, where I years ago noted the COAL that puts the bullet I'll be using in the lands. Nope. I'll just grab a big handful of dumphuckitude (I buy it in bulk, you see) and load to 2.800.

Oh. One other thing. Mule Deer actually HAS given me very useful load data that actually worked (unlike your famous Unposted Load). Or maybe I'm just Imagining that. It gets so hard to keep things straight in one's Imagination, whilst one's [bleep] is glued to one's Kouch.

so... given that rifles are a passion for most of us that comes somewhere after our families and friends, how are you doing?

Dan,

Sorry to hear about your couch deficit!

I've actually found one quite useful. As a matter of fact my office is on the livingroom couch where I'm sitting right now, and I use the same couch for my indoor shooting platform. Saves a lot of time!

If it takes you more than 5 pokes to find THE load,you's not paying attention.

A Ladder Test is something a Fireman should be doing for a Qualification Course and is the consumate Goat [bleep] as per any/all things The Rifle. Just one of countless archaeic Myths perpetuated by them who shoot the least...but it's funny.

Rifles talk,yet noone listens.

Hint.







Douche,

Thanks for the heads up on the Range.

Perhaps only Jeff-O's powder "bill",could rival your's?!!?

Laffin'!






Jeff-O,

Please feel free to tell yourself,that which you need to hear most...just keep muttering it aloud,because the inherent hilarity is off the [bleep] charts! Rest assured that I've zero interest in curbing your Imagination,let alone your propensity to practice Pretend,if only in the name of humor. Though I do note as of late,that after having your Paper Hat knocked off your head so many [bleep] times,that you've given up trying to talk in the "firsthand" and are now plying your "friends" as sources of "information"(the Twist Guy is a Instant [bleep] Classic!),if only to poke a toe in the waters. Bless your heart,that is EPIC humor too! So no matter if the crux is twist,throats,COAL,boolits or anything else pertaining The Rifle,you can be reliably counted upon to know the least and yack the most,all the while dropping all of the [bleep] marbles. Congratulations?

As per always,I enjoy your Pity Party and though you've quite an Imagination,it falls well shy of quantifying your Ninja-esque Dumbphucktitude in either depth or volume and that's simply a shame. But curiously enough,THAT is the funniest part and you dump an incredible amount of fuel on them flames obliviously! One couldn't script things for more sublime humor and you frost it copiously,because you're doing the best you can...with what very little you have to work with. Feel free to regale me yet again,with the things you nearly did,with the wares you nearly had and from the places you nearly been too.

As an aside,I reckon MD just threw up in his mouth a little,beings you fit him into your Imagination too.

[bleep] wow!







johnw,

Put whatever Bandaid is gonna do you the most favors,in the location most needed,if you think it's gonna help curb your Stupidity. Shoot me a PM and I'll happily poke a Money Order in the Mail,so you've the jingle to purchase said goods and get the install rollin'. My gracious nature is boundless.

You is at the mercy of your faculties and that is both the most slippery of slopes and the dirtiest of tricks.

Congratulations?

The described method does work and is generally the route I take if possible. Here's a start-to-finish target from a new 700 in 243win. I took the photo a few years back. I didn't shoot the bulls in order but #8 was laying down some moly with coated 100gr bulk CL's while getting "on paper" regarding POI. Then I switched to 75gr Hornady's loaded "square" on the lands with #7 and went around clockwise to #10, increasing charge weight. Things got tighter as I went and #6 gave me what I was looking for regarding accuracy and speed (#9 was a 223 target). It did pretty much the same thing when working up a load in such a manner with 85gr Sierra GKHPBT's.

I gotta admit, even if I wanted to, I couldna write that way...

edit to add, I will also admit the .22-250 in my avatar surprised me a little with TSX's on the lands, so it's worth some effort to explore it further.

No one else could, either...

It's a different language from a different place by a different kinda guy.

It can be entertaining to those looking for cheap entertainment...

DF

I'm seeing two land marks and the distance between them seems roughly equal to the distance from each, down to the case mouth.

Is that the square?

When in the procedure described is the application of skull and crossbones decal made?

I won't venture to speak for anybody else, but I always took "square" to mean that the engagment marks were about as long as they are wide. This assumes typical narrow factory lands as wide lands in a 3-groove custom barrel would take a big bunch of jam into the lands to yield a square imprint.

The "square" he is referring to is the land marks themselves. When the mark is as long as it is wide, it is "square" in shape thus indicating proper contact.