Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Interesting E-Mail About Iraq and Military Guns [Long]

Saw this on another forum, and thought you guys would enjoy it.

>>Lots of interesting anecdotal info below about fighting and winning in
>>Iraq. . . . interesting perspective on insurgent tactics, IEDS and
>>captured laptops.
>>
>>
>>A couple of weekends ago I got to spend time with my son Jordan, who
>>was on his first leave since returning from Iraq. He is well (a little
>>thin), and already bored. He will be returning to Iraq for a second
>>tour in early 06 and has already re-enlisted early for 4 more years.
>>He loves the Marine Corps and is actually looking forward to returning
>>to
> Iraq.
>>
>>Jordan spent 7 months at Camp Blue Diamond in Ramadi. Aka: Fort
>>Apache.
>>He saw and did a lot and the following is what he told me about
>>weapons, equipment, tactics and other miscellaneous info which may be
>>of interest to you. Nothing is by any means classified. No politics
>>here, just a Marine with a birds eye views
>>opinions:
>>
>>1) The M-16 rifle : Thumbs down. Chronic jamming problems with the
>>talcum powder like sand over there. The sand is everywhere. Jordan
>>says you feel filthy 2 minutes after coming out of the shower. The M-4
>>carbine version is more popular because its lighter and shorter, but
>>it has jamming problems also. They like the ability to mount the
>>various optical gunsights and weapons lights on the picattiny rails,
>>but the weapon itself is not great in a desert environment. They all
>>hate the 5.56mm (.223) round. Poor penetration on the cinderblock
>>structure common over there and even torso hits cant be reliably
>>counted on to put the enemy down. Fun fact: Random autopsies on dead
>>insurgents shows a high level of opiate use.
>>
>>2) The M243 SAW (squad assault weapon): .223 cal. Drum fed light
>>machine gun. Big thumbs down. Universally considered a piece of ****.
>>Chronic jamming problems, most of which require partial disassembly.
>>(that fun in the middle of a firefight).
>>
>>3) The M9 Beretta 9mm: Mixed bag. Good gun, performs well in desert
>>environment; but they all hate the 9mm cartridge. The use of handguns
>>for self-defense is actually fairly common.
>>Same old story on the 9mm:
>>Bad guys hit multiple times and still in the fight.
>>
>>4) Mossberg 12ga. Military shotgun: Works well, used frequently for
>>clearing houses to good effect.
>>
>>5) The M240 Machine Gun: 7.62 Nato (.308) cal.
>>belt fed machine gun,
>>developed to replace the old M-60 (what a beautiful weapon that
>>was!!).
>>Thumbs up. Accurate, reliable, and the 7.62 round puts em down.
>>Originally developed as a vehicle mounted weapon, more and more are
>>being dismounted and taken into the field by infantry. The 7.62 round
>>chews up the structure over there.
>>
>>6) The M2 .50 cal heavy machine gun: Thumbs way, way up. Ma deuce is
>>still worth her considerable weight in gold.
>>The ultimate fight
>>stopper, puts their dicks in the dirt every time. The most coveted
>>weapon in-theater.
>>
>>7) The .45 pistol: Thumbs up. Still the best pistol round out there.
>>Everybody authorized to carry a sidearm is trying to get their hands
>>on one. With few exceptions, can reliably be expected to put em down
>>with a torso hit. The special ops guys (who are doing most of the
>>pistol
>>work) use the HK military model and supposedly love it. The old
>>government model .45s are being re-issued en masse.
>>
>>8) The M-14: Thumbs up. They are being re-issued in bulk, mostly in a
>>modified version to special ops guys.
>>Modifications include lightweight
>>Kevlar stocks and low power red dot or ACOG sights. Very reliable in
>>the sandy environment, and they love the 7.62 round.
>>
>>9) The Barrett .50 cal sniper rifle: Thumbs way up. Spectacular range
>>and accuracy and hits like a freight train.
>>Used frequently to take out
>>vehicle suicide bombers ( we actually stop a lot of them) and
>>barricaded enemy. Definitely here to stay.
>>
>>10) The M24 sniper rifle: Thumbs up. Mostly in
>>.308 but some in 300 win
>>mag. Heavily modified Remington 700s. Great performance. Snipers have
>>been used heavily to great effect. Rumor has it that a marine sniper
>>on his third tour in Anbar province has actually exceeded Carlos
>>Hathcocks record for confirmed kills with OVER 100.
>>
>>11) The new body armor: Thumbs up. Relatively light at approx. 6 lbs.
>>and can reliably be expected to soak up small shrapnel and even will
>>stop an AK-47 round. The bad news: Hot as **** to wear, almost
>>unbearable in the summer heat (which averages over 120 degrees). Also,
>>the enemy now goes for head shots whenever possible. All the bull****
>>about the old body armor making our guys vulnerable to the IEDs was a
>>non-starter. The IED explosions are enormous and body armor doesn't
>>make any difference at all in most cases.
>>
>>12) Night Vision and Infrared Equipment:
>>Thumbs way up. Spectacular
>>performance. Our guys see in the dark and own the night, period. Very
>>little enemy action after evening prayers.
>>More and more enemy being
>>whacked at night during movement by our hunter-killer teams. Weve all
>>seen the videos.
>>
>>13) Lights: Thumbs up. Most of the weapon mounted and personal lights
>>are Surefires, and the troops love em.
>>Invaluable for night urban
>>operations. Jordan carried a $34 Surefire G2 on a neck lanyard and
>>loved it.
>>
>>I cant help but notice that most of the good fighting weapons and
>>ordnance are 50 or more years old!!!!!!!!!
>>With all our technology, its
>>the WWII and Vietnam era weapons that everybody wants!!!! The infantry
>>fighting is frequent, up close and brutal. No quarter is given or
>>shown.
>>
>>
>>Bad guy weapons:
>>
>>1) Mostly AK47s . The entire country is an arsenal. Works better in
>>the desert than the M16 and the .308 Russian round kills reliably. PKM
>>belt fed light machine guns are also common and effective. Luckily,
>>the enemy mostly shoots like ****. Undisciplined spray and pray type
>>fire.
>>However, they are seeing more and more precision weapons, especially
>>sniper rifles. (Iran, again) Fun fact:
>>Captured enemy have apparently
>>marveled at the marksmanship of our guys and how hard they fight. They
>>are apparently told in Jihad school that the Americans rely solely on
>>technology, and can be easily beaten in close quarters combat for
>>their lack of toughness. Lets just say they know better now.
>>
>>2) The RPG: Probably the infantry weapon most feared by our guys.
>>Simple, reliable and as common as dog****. The enemy responded to our
>>up-armored humvees by aiming at the windshields, often at point blank
>>range. Still killing a lot of our guys.
>>
>>3) The IED: The biggest killer of all. Can be anything from old Soviet
>>anti-armor mines to jury rigged artillery shells. A lot found in
>>Jordans area were in abandoned cars. The enemy would take 2 or 3 155mm
>>artillery shells and wire them together. Most were detonated by cell
>>phone, and the explosions are enormous. You're not safe in any
>>vehicle, even an M1 tank. Driving is by far the most dangerous thing
>>our guys do
> over there.
>>Lately, they are much more sophisticated shape charges (Iranian)
>>specifically designed to penetrate armor.
>>Fact: Most of the ready made
>>IEDs are supplied by Iran, who is also providing terrorists (Hezbollah
>>types) to train the insurgents in their use and tactics. Thats why the
>>attacks have been so deadly lately. Their concealment methods are
>>ingenious, the latest being shape charges in Styrofoam containers
>>spray painted to look like the cinderblocks that litter all Iraqi
>>roads. We find about 40% before they detonate, and the bomb disposal
>>guys are unsung heroes of this war.
>>
>>4) Mortars and rockets: Very prevalent. The soviet era 122mm rockets
>>(with an 18km range) are becoming more prevalent. One of Jordans NCOs
>>lost a leg to one. These weapons cause a lot of damage inside the
>>wire.
>>Jordans base was hit almost daily his entire time there by mortar and
>>rocket fire, often at night to disrupt sleep patterns and cause
>>fatigue (It did). More of a psychological weapon than anything else.
>>The enemy mortar teams would jump out of vehicles, fire a few rounds,
>>and then haul ass in a matter of seconds.
>>
>>5) Bad guy technology: Simple yet effective.
>>Most communication is by
>>cell and satellite phones, and also by email on laptops. They use
>>handheld GPS units for navigation and Google earth for overhead views
>>of our positions. Their weapons are good, if not fancy, and prevalent.
>>Their explosives and bomb technology is TOP OF THE LINE. Night vision
>>is rare. They are very careless with their equipment and the captured
>>GPS units and laptops are treasure troves of Intel when captured.
>>
>>Who are the bad guys?:
>>
>>Most of the carnage is caused by the Zarqawi Al Qaeda group. They
>>operate mostly in Anbar province (Fallujah and Ramadi). These are
>>mostly foreigners, non-Iraqi Sunni Arab Jihadists from all over the
>>Muslim world (and Europe). Most enter Iraq through Syria (with, of
>>course, the knowledge and complicity of the Syrian govt.) , and then
>>travel down the at line which is the trail of towns along the
>>Euphrates River that weve been hitting hard for the last few months.
>>Some are virtually untrained young Jihadists that often end up as
>>suicide bombers or in sacrifice squads. Most, however, are hard core
>>terrorists from all the usual suspects (Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas
>>etc.) These are the guys running around murdering civilians en masse
>>and cutting heads off. The Chechens (many of whom are Caucasian), are
>>supposedly the most ruthless and the best fighters. (they have been
>>fighting the Russians for years). In the Baghdad area and south, most
>>of the insurgents are Iranian inspired (and
>>led) Iraqi Shiites. The Iranian Shiia have been very adept at
>>infiltrating the Iraqi local govt., the police forces and the Army.
>>The have had a massive spy and agitator network there since the
>>Iran-Iraq war in the early 80s. Most of the Saddam loyalists were
>>killed, captured or gave up long ago.
>>
>>Bad Guy Tactics:
>>
>>When they are engaged on an infantry level they get their asses kicked
>>every time. Brave, but stupid. Suicidal Banzai-type charges were very
>>common earlier in the war and still occur.
>>They will literally
>>sacrifice 8-10 man teams in suicide squads by sending them screaming
>>and firing Aks and RPGs directly at our bases just to probe the
>>defenses. They get mowed down like grass every time. ( see the M2 and
>>M240 above). Jordans base was hit like this often. When engaged, they
>>have a tendency to flee to the same building, probably for what they
>>think will be a glorious last stand. Instead, we call in air and thats
>>the end of that more often than not. These hole-ups are referred to as
>>Alpha Whiskey Romeos (Allahs Waiting Room). We have the laser guided
>>ground-air thing down to a science. The fast movers, mostly Marine
>>F-18s, are taking an ever increasing toll on the enemy. When caught
>>out in the open, the helicopter gunships and AC-130 Spectre gunships
>>cut them to ribbons with cannon and rocket fire, especially at night.
>>Interestingly, artillery is hardly used at all. Fun fact: The enemy
>>death toll is supposedly between 45-50 thousand. That is why were
>>seeing less and less infantry attacks and more IED, suicide bomber
>>****.
> The new strategy is simple:
>>attrition.
>>
>>The insurgent tactic most frustrating is their use of civilian
>>non-combatants as cover. They know we do all we can to avoid civilian
>>casualties and therefore schools, hospitals and (especially) Mosques
>>are locations where they meet, stage for attacks, cache weapons and
>>ammo and flee to when engaged. They have absolutely no regard
>>whatsoever for civilian casualties. They will terrorize locals and
>>murder without hesitation anyone believed to be sympathetic to the
>>Americans or the new Iraqi govt. Kidnapping of family members
>>(especially children) is common to influence people they are trying to
>>influence but cant reach, such as local govt.
>>officials, clerics, tribal
> leaders, etc.).
>>
>>The first thing our guys are told is don't get captured. They know
>>that if captured they will be tortured and beheaded on the internet.
>>Zarqawi openly offers bounties for anyone who brings him a live
>>American serviceman. This motivates the criminal element who otherwise
>>don't give a **** about the war. A lot of the beheading victims were
>>actually kidnapped by common criminals and sold to Zarqawi. As such,
>>for our guys, every fight is to the death. Surrender is not an option.
>>
>>The Iraqis are a mixed bag. Some fight well, others aren't worth a
>>****.
>>Most do okay with American support. Finding leaders is hard, but they
>>are getting better. It is widely viewed that Zarqawis use of suicide
>>bombers, en masse, against the civilian population was a serious
>>tactical mistake. Many Iraqis were galvanized and the caliber of
>>recruits in the Army and the police forces went up, along with their
>>motivation. It also led to an exponential increase in good intel
>>because the Iraqis are sick of the insurgent attacks against
>>civilians.
>>The Kurds are solidly pro-American and fearless fighters.
>>
>>According to Jordan, morale among our guys is very high. They not only
>>believe they are winning, but that they are winning decisively. They
>>are stunned and dismayed by what they see in the American press, whom
>>they almost universally view as against them.
>>The embedded reporters
>>are despised and distrusted. They are inflicting casualties at a rate
>>of
>>20-1 and then see **** like Are we losing in Iraq on TV and the print
>>media. For the most part, they are satisfied with their equipment,
>>food and leadership. Bottom line though, and they all say this, there
>>are not enough guys there to drive the final stake through the heart
>>of the insurgency, primarily because there aren't enough troops
>>in-theater to shut down the borders with Iran and Syria. The Iranians
>>and the Syrians just cant stand the thought of Iraq being an American
>>ally (with, of course, permanent US bases there).
>>
>>Anyway guys, thats it, hope you found it interesting, I sure did.
>>

good read...thnx.

The Army infantry have views pretty consistent with what is mentioned above about our weapons. It is a shame about the M249 SAWs. The biggest issue with them is all in the US inventory are so old. These weapons were thrashed before we went to Iraq.

I got that also from a friend of mine from PA..

Seems a lot of those military semi-autos jam a bit. (SAY IT AIN'T SO!!).

Thanks, interesting read..............GTC

They deserve the best, period!

JMHO


Huntr