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What are the differencs between a BRNO ZG 47 action, and a 21H?

What type scope rings do they take?

Thanks in advance for any info,and pictures are always welcome.

The 21 is a small ring,the ZG47 is a large. Most all ZG47's are square bridges with dovetails that Talley makes a very nice ring set-up.The 21's can be round top that need D/T'ed,later ones were also flat tops.I have some of both that I may be able to photo for you.

Bob,

I have a double square bridge custom on a 21H that Dennis Erhardt put together for me.

If you'd like pics, PM me your e-mail, as I'm not sure I still have it.

rifle/Doug: Ahh, I see. OK thanks.I have never owned either of these.

Was wondering where a guy got rings to fit those dovetails...

Did you guys stick with the factory triggers/safties,or use after market? I like the safety on the ZG 47....would the 21H safety need to be swapped out for a M70 type?

Tag.

I have ten of these rifles, will pick up two more later today and have had some others. They are the finest production actions ever offered by anyone and are perfect for building custom sporters. I might add that Duane Weibe and Ralf Martini have agreed with my opinion on this in phone conversations.

The safety-bolt lock on the 21 small ring series needs to be changed, as it does not lock the bolt, unacceptable in a hunting rifle to me,but, some later examples of this were fitted with the ZG bolts,with that safety and round knobs....these are HIGHLY desireable and very rare in Canada.

The ZG-47 safety works very well, BUT, in reverse to what we are all used to. One needs a Mauser 98 cocking piece to change this to a 3-pos. as I do the ZGs I have that I will seriously hunt...some are just safe queens, too minty to use.

The ZGs come in both vapour-blasted and polished receivers(rare) and in several stock-barrel configurations. They typically are not quite as nicely finished as the earlier 21 series, also available in several configuations.

There were about 42000 21 and 21000 ZG rifles made, most exported to Canada, Australia, Africa and Scandinavia,from what I can find and they are NOT easy to find, but, buying a minty one is far more satisfying than finding a minty P-64 Mod. 70 and they are much finer rifles.

There are various factory rings available,Alaska Arms and Ragner make "Burgess-type" rings and I use Talley QD screw rings on mine that I actively hunt. The Talleys holding a 4x Zeiss Conquest on my factory ZG in 9.3x62 restocked in Micky Edge MKX handle work VERY well and this is among the finest and most shootable rifles of the 125 or so big game rifles I have owned since 1965.

I also change the triggers on those actions I customize and am going to try to new Alaska Arms offering, but, it is a tad pricey. That said, ya gets what ya pays for and these actions deserve the finest.

HTH, Bob, I can see that you are getting ready to..........

Kutenay as always thanks for the great info.....largely as a result of what you have posted on these rifles, I am dveloping an interest,and whether as an action for a custom, or a complete rifle.

The other posters have covered things pretty well, and I would just add a few comments.

The original 21H/22F butterknife bolt handle does stick up a bit when opened, and requires a higher scope mounting for the bolt handle to clear. If you are used to the old FN Mauser scope safety on the left side the 21H/22F safety works exactly the same way, except that as Kutenay has pointed out, it does not lock the bolt as the FN Mauser safety did. The original bolt sleeve safety works well with the higher scope mounting IMO, however if you want a lower scope mounting the bolt handle has to be modified, and in that case the original safety is difficult to disengage because it lies right up against the ocular bell of the scope. So a low scope mount requires the 21H/22F bolt handle to be modified and also the safety replaced for best results. If you are used to the Win 70 type safety then the equivalent design for a Mauser 98 will work perfectly.

The 21H/22F do have two cost-cutting measures that I am aware of compared to a standard 98 Mauser design: 1) the magazine box is stamped rather than milled integral with the trigger guard and 2) the magazine follower is stamped.

The ZG-47, OTOH, does not need any bolt handle modification for a low mount safety. It also has a stamped magazine box but at least on my sample, the magazine follower is milled. FWIW, the late Jack O'Connor wrote in the Rifle book, "In my opinion the best Mauser-type action ever made in Europe was the [ZG-47] model turned out at Brno in Czechoslovakia." although he called it the ZKK, which was a later model. However from his description, plus a picture of the custom .280 Rem that he had built on an action, it clearly was a ZG-47. Also, a year or so ago the Champlin Arms website had a ZG-47 for sale with the following, "The great metalsmith, Mr. Tom Burgess, told me personally he thought it was the best action made in the post-war era."

Also, unlike FN after about 1948, Brno did not cheapen the action by milling out the internal receiver ring on the left side - they are all "C" ring actions.

The double square bridge scope dovetails have been unchanged from the 21H through the ZG-47, ZKK600's and CZ550 series, and have a recess in the rear bridge on the left side that acts as a recoil shoulder. Brno/CZ rings have an extension on the rear ring that fits in the recess. As for rings, I believe the Talley's only come in one height, Warne makes rings in two heights and Alaska Arms come in three heights. I think the CZ rings come in one height. Lynx and Burris also make rings. Most of these rings mount the scope anywhere from around 0.3" to 0.5:" above the top of the dovetails. If you want to retain the original 21H bolt handle, the heights of these rings are somewhat on the low side for most oculars, with the exception of an old set of Lynx high rings I have which are about 0.6" high,but original Brno mounts show up from time to time on eBay that mount the scope even higher, up to around 0.74" above the dovetails. The original Brno mount bases are quite intricately machined and despite their blocky, massive looking bases are quite light because they use aluminum rings and bases with a steel clamping jaw and screw. The clamping jaw is a T-shape with the sides and top of the "T" supported on all sides by the surrounding base, and the bottom of the "T" on the rear base fitting into the recess in the receiver ring.

Klin: Great post and very informative.Thanks.

I do recall that Champlin rifle;and I guess it was one of these actions O'Connor used for that Earl Milliron rifle he built.Again thanks for your insight.


BTW and a slightly different subject, but I notice Alaska Arms makes a M70-style trigger for 98 Mausers,which seems like a really good idea. Anyone have any experience with these?

There are a number of variations on the basic 21/22 action, some with a roundbolt and single trigger, others with the ZG-type bolt and both "flattops" and earlier round actions. Most of these last lack the Mauser guide rib on the bolt and some have clip slots as the original "Patterne 98" Mausers had.

The later ZG-47s were also varied in some respects and are NOT as nicely finished as the 21/22 series, as well as having the biggest PITA trigger ever offered in a rifle worth serious attention. The older "flattops" varied in finish. but, were all the same dimensions from the 21/22 to the 550s.

The stamped parts are not an issue, to me, in fact, I prefer the ZG-47 bottom metal to ANY other type I have owned, this includes custom Mausers by famed German makers, an original "Obie" sporter, various 21/22 rifles, I have had eight of these and just bought my sixth now in possession, yesterday and the aftermarket offerings by Sunnyhill, Blackburn and Duane Weibe.

I will not go into details of "why" but, I try to find ZG bm to install on all of my "using" 21/22 rifles and it works very well.

I would not consider the ZG to be superior to the earlier 21/22 actions, in anything, the reverse is true. O'Connor, was a college teacher who had a pretty large ego and a poor reputation here in Canada, where he "hunted" by means of having Canadian guides find his game for him. His comments show that he actually knew very little about these rifles and I have also owned several ZKKs, from their introduction here in BC in 1968 to last year.

For building a fine custom sporter in a standard chambering, to be as light as practical and still be crf, the 21/22 actions are in a class of their own. All one needs do, is pop in a good trigger and change the safety and install good rings and a barrel. Stock to suit with a higher comb and you have a superb rifle that will work in the worst conditions.

The bluing and general finish on these is FAR superior to ANY other I have seen, including the vaunted Mannlicher-Schoenaur rifles and it wears like iron.

I can shoot the original stock, butterknife handle and the 7x57 I bought yesterday will remain original and I will hunt it, except for changing to a factory original single trigger and bottom metal I have, as the DSTs are hooped and intalling a thin pad plus a 3-pos safety. A full glassing to keep the stock from cracking, as many have and I am good to go.....very nice rifle for $600.00 as was the ZG I grabbed for my best buddy at $700.00.

If, one desires a milled BM, no problem, but,I have had a total of five ZGs and eight 21 rifles since 1965 and have never had an issue with the factory units.

I have a friend with another very choice factory 9.3 and an 8x64 and I have been "working on him" for over twoyears...........can you say, "hooked"........

I think Bob has seen the error of his ways, is selling all his 270s, and replacing w/ 7x57s!!

Bob,

I recently installed an Alaska Arms M70-style trigger on an FN action that's being made into a custom rifle (in .270 Winchester, if you're interested), and it worked great. The instructions are a little skimpy, but I've worked on a lot of triggers and got it installed and adjusted to 2-1/2 pounds in less than half an hour. In fact in my experience the pull and adjustment were better than on 95% of pre-'64 Model 70's.

JB: Thanks for the info on the trigger...I was pleased to see that trigger as an after market accessory.It fills a gap for me as I always liked Mauser actions real well, but wanted a M70 trigger for them. I am going to stash one of those away...

Kutenay,as always an education reading what you have to say about the BRNO's....you write of them with a lot or passion and I can tell you were lip-hooked long ago on BRNO Mausers and are still floppin' on that hook ...I am intrigued by their style, utility,and relative scarcity (at least here).

Ever sonce I first saw what I think was a post war Hornet, I was fascinated by the BRNO rifles.

efw: If I came across a BRNO 7x57 that I liked I hunt that 7x57 which is among my favorite cartridges. I would reach for one in a second....if there were no 270's within arms reach....

JB and Bob,

Did you guys clear that .270 business with Ingwe...?

Agree with Bob on Kutaney's postings...

DF

DF,

At one point (maybe 20 years ago?) I'd taken more big game with the .270 than any other round, but sometime around then the .30-06 pulled ahead. Ingwe thought that was OK, and in the past 15 years I've taken over 5 times as many animals with the 7x57 as the .270, which affected his attitude considerably.

Of course, he'd be happier if I didn't use the .270 at all, which may have been one of the tiny reasons for the chambering of this latest custom rifle. We've got to help him grump about things. Otherwise he'd lose his Campfire persona....

Well John, your testimony, if given an overall weighted average, your last 15 years receiving more credit than your misspent youth, I can see how Ingwe may have decided to give you a pass...

OTOH, he may see this recent digression as slipping back into the morass from whence you evolved. But, I feel sure he'll be there for you, to again extend his hand...

DF

Yeah, probably--specially if I have some extra bullets, brass or powder I'm giving away!

DF: I did not....I am beyond redemption....

For sure...!

DF

Be it a 30/06 Springfield, a 270 Win, or a 7x57 Mauser.... The deer you shoot is not going to care whichever cartridge you shot her with.

Bob, I've owned both and like both but without a doubt the 21H does it me for over the ZG-47. The 21H is just so slim and petite. It feels like nothing else. I like it so much I even used a 21H pattern on a Husky build

There are a few things about the 21H I'm not real fond of though. If your plans are to leave the rifle 100% stock you'll need to use high scope mounts and guess what....nobody makes them anymore. You'll need the high mounts for two reasons. 1st. the bolt handle is shaped funny and needs a lot of clearance to miss the scope. 2nd. The factory safety works by sliding your thumb across the top of the bolt shroud to dissengage the safety. If the scope isn't mounted high there just isn't enough room to get your thumb under it.

I have a 100% original, pristene 21H in 7X57 and refuse to cut on this one. I just got a new set of mounts for it yesterday. I had to commision a custom set of rings for this thing because nobody makes them the right height anymore. They still need to be blued but they look neato. They do to me anyway


They are still in the white. I'll send them off for bluing soon.



Of coarse if you're planning on customizing it all of the above is meaningless.

Terry

Jeez, that is a gorgeous rifle!

I have one exactly like that, rather fancy wood and I found some old Weaver adaptors for these, put my Leupy "high" rings for the Brnos on these and a Leupy 2x7 and it works perfectly.

I have a ZG "carbine" in 7x57, just got it last Christmastime and it is stone mint, very nice wood and has the old Brno i-piece mounts with a Lyman 3x. This, is quite a rare variation and I will probably not shoot it, just keep it in a small group of "classic" rifles in one of my safes that I have just to enjoy.

The long barreled 21 I just bought with a ZG last Friday has a few issues, but, is actually very nice. The DST are hooped and I detest these things,anyway, always have and I had some pleasant e-mails from Alaska Arms and will be installing one of their triggers, or, an older Dayton-Traister and 2-pos. Mod. 70 style safety from one of my other 21s, now undergoing further customization.

These longer barrled ones are my favourites and when I find good "shooter grade" specimens, I prefer to open them to .280 Rem. do the trigger and safety and install a good synthetic. This, IMHO, gives you the finest "mountain rifle" possible and the whole shebang will run about 3Gs, not a lot of cash for a good rifle im today's world.

The CZ-550 can be re-worked to come very close to the 21 and about equal to the ZG, AHR does a fine job and this is an excellent alternative for anyone who cannot find a 21 or ZG.

I am planning a pair of "ultimate using-working rifles" on the actions I have stashed and will post the details perhaps tomorrow as I am tired from monkeywrenching this newest 21 today. Small screw slots, old eyes and like that, eh.

Terry, WHERE oh WHERE did you get those rings, I need some more rings for my collection of 21s and ZGs.Thanks, got your other info. greatly appreciated.

Kerry Stottlemyer built those from two blocks of steel!

kstottlemyer@cox.net

They're pretty sweet.

Terry

Terry that's a very nice rifle,and the rings are slick. I see what you mean about the safety,and bolt clearance.

My oh my Mausers are such a conundrum..... but they are beautiful things! Even back when I had little notion what I was looking at,a really nice custom Mauser just jumped out and grabbed me.Few rifles are nicer looking than a high end customized mauser.

Good, I have to call Kerry as my buddy and I sent him some specs. on our Dakota 76 rifles for him to build that folding peep-rear base that was discussed on AR before last Christmas. I have not heard from him since January, but, I enjoy talking on the phone to him and I want that rear peep badly.

Damn, I hit 66 at the end of this coming June and I just never seem to be able to stop acquiring these rifles! I would go to a "shrink", but, the only one I knew was a shooting buddy and he was worse than I am, had pieces by Geo. Caswell, Maurice Ottmar and so forth do that one whole basement wall of his luxurious home was packed-full gunsafes.....I guess there is no hope for us, eh!

I bet the guns are cheaper than the doctors and a hell of a lot more fun.

Terry

TC1,

I found that by using a "vintage" scope with a smaller ocular, I could use Talley medium rings and still clear the bolt handle. I have never understood the advantage of a large ocular. The size of the exit pupil is determined by the size of the objective lens, not the ocular, and that should be the main consideration for rapid target acquisition I would think.

Anyway, here's my 22F 6.5X57 with a Lyman All American Perma Center 4X scope with post and crosshair reticle in Talley rings.

Those are Warne extra high CZ550 rings, not Talley's and they aren't made anymore. The Talley's don't have a "peak" like those you pictured nor are they anywhere near that height.

Hang on to them, you can't get them anymore!

Terry

Terry,
We need to quit using Kerry's name. We may not be able to afford him soon.

HAR!

I have had three ZG47's. Two were reworked by Thos M Burgess. One thing to consider, they did not have the receiver threads found in the 98's. Rather there were metric and required a lathe to cut suvh threads for the barrel shank. One was a 375 H&H which is pretty close to my safe. The small receiver diameter actions are nice but I prefer a reworked G33/40 as did Herman Waldron and number of custom rifle guys. Echols would grind off the dbl bridges to fit his rings. I first thought this a bad idea but after checking the alingment of the BRNO bridges I now agree.

Most if not all Mausers and clones have "alignment issues" and the vaunted P-64 Mod. 70s are often even worse. One can argue the merits-weaknesses of any action(s) all week long and still it comes down to the subjective judgement of the guy who is paying for the rifle(s) concerned.

My point here and I want to stress this is that these two Brno actions are the finest PRODUCTION actions ever offered and the customizing question is a separate issue.

I had some work done at Martini's and could have bought a "full house" G-33/40 action he had at the time. I chose to go with the Brno 21s and so have a number of very experienced rifle nuts-hunters I know, including the owner of that G-33/40 action.

The metric thread situation is a non-issue for me as most of the gunsmiths I use are Euro. in origin and have the appropriate tooling to cut the threads correctly. I actually prefer this, but, again, it is not a biggie, for me.

I don't care for .375H&H chambered in Mauser 98s and I am familiar with all the issues concerned, I prefer a 9.3x64B. for that level of power in the ZG action......that said, any rifle built by the immortal Thos. B. would be welcome in one of my gunsafes!!!!

Here is my 6.5X57...

Here is my "Hog" Killer Brno ZG47 in 7x64 with a 8X Swaro for night shootin..I sit on a hillside,waiting on them to come out at dark...

Nice!


Aside: Had no idea the ZG47 was long enough to swallow a 375H&H....what was the biggest cartridge for which they were chambered?

It might take a H&H,biggest I've seen is a 9.3x62

They are for all practical purposes a commercial large ring 98 pattern action, so it would take the same moves to fit a 375 H&H as it would on any 98

Supposedly they were made in 10.75x68 though I imagine they aren't falling off trees.

FM: I see....thanks for the info..

FM is correct here and I have also heard that they were made in the superb 9,3x64B, my choice as THE best big game round for BC hunting. I have never seen one, but, there is a doctor in Prince Rupert, BC, an immigrant from Africa, who has quite a number of these older Brnos and I think he may have one.

There is a considerable variation in these rifles,only 21,000 made and my very minty 7x57 has a 22" tube while most have 23.6" barrels. The shorter ones are less common and I have only had one other of this type.

My very good friend, FM, found an action, polished receiver, from a factory 9.3x62 and, knowing how I longed for one, sold it to me. Just last week, I found him the nice "shooter grade" long-tubed .30-06 that he wanted and he will make this into an "iron sight" rifle, about perfect for that type and the tasks he will use it for.

I hope to get a few more of these and also a couple more Dakota 76 rifles from the era when Don Allen ran the show. For the price of nice, used ones of these three rifle models, there is nothing that is equal, IMHO and they just plain work for an old geezer like me.

Well said,just wish I could find more of them down here!

Why oh why did I have to read this thread? I have owned several 21H's..a couple of 7x57s and a couple of 8x57s, but sadly I sold them.

Well, they are not hard to find and there are some FINE specimens available for sale. I am now going to sell a number of my rifles, as I am pushing 67, have 35 rifles and will never use or probably even shoot most of what I still have after selling several since last year, when this thread was started.

Obviously, I know these rifles and am going to ask and get top market dollar for mine, I have an ill wife and we want to go to Europe before much longer, so, I need some $$$$ as I will not spend on credit.

IF, you are SERIOUS, PM me, tell me what you want and we may be able to do business. I can provide excellent references here and in the Vancouver gun trade to aleviate any concern that you may have in buying from a stranger.

That said, I do not respond to the requests I often receive to assist someone to "find" a rare gun at a "sweet deal" as I am too busy to engage in anything other than liquidating my collection for cash. So, there it is, if you are interested.

Oh how I wish I was in a position to pick through your collection Kuteney!

+2....I saw/handled my 1st 21H last fall. It was not all original, although it was in good shape and commanded a premium price. After handling it, I know I'd like to have one. They are very smoooth.

Terry, you are one of a few guys on the 'net,that I would do anything I can to help buy one of the nice ones I have, BobNH is another.

I love these guns, but, I want to do some hunts in the Yukon, NWT and travel and I not "rich". There is some neat stuff coming on the Canadian market now, lots of Brnos and so on.

I don't want to hi-jack this thread, but would love to hear about the m70-style trigger Bob...maybe I will PM you for details on the 'why'

setch no real mystery on the M70 style trigger...I have always liked the open architecture design;rugged, simple,everything in the open where you can see it. Free of little springs,and the enclosed design that can accumulate gunk or water that can freeze up.

Not the only thing that works,of course, but just a feature that I happen to like.

Johnny B turned me on the the fact that Alaskan Arms now makes them for Mausers.I think they are a neat trick and if I were doing up a mauser would definately get one.

The Brno's I have handled, are some of the smoothest and tightest actions I have used. They are some of the highest quality production guns ever made.

ddj

Bob, do yourself a favour and use Alaska arms mounts.

HERE

Something not mentioned is that the ZG47 action is slightly wider in the rails and would make a smashing 375 Ruger, also not mentioned is that follower in the Model 21 is pressed not milled, and features the hold open as on military Mausers...easy fix is to replace with a milled ex-mil follower that has been ground to allow the bolt to slip over the side of the follower.
The magbox on the ZG47 is not milled, it is just pressed...but works perfectly.
And as Kute mentioned, the '56 Model 21 with the round bolt and ZG47 bolt shroud in 7x64 is the Holy Grail.

ps, Kute, I have another coming in about two weeks...I am going to strip it for a store of parts.

Nice collection Trouthunter. Tell us more about them!

Eric

Anybody here want a Brno ZKW465 in 22 K Hornet? Spooky accurate and class/style in spades like all of the 1950's Brno stuff. Double set triggers, of course. I have piles of fdireformed brass, ammo, dies etc that go with. PM me if interested.

Thanks Eric,

The first is a BRNO 22 Carbine in 7x57. I bought it from TC1 and he had change the bolt knob and the trigger. IT is a fine rifle.

The second is a 22 Mannlicher Carbine in 7x57.

The third is a 21 rifle in 7x57.

The forth is a Parker Hale Hussar which used the ZG47 action.

And lastly is a ZG47 in 30-06.


ddj

Of the two, I prefer the ZG47 just for it's greater strength and durability. I have seen 21's which had fractured along the dovetail. I suspect the culprit was a too-tight barrel thread in this case which started the crack that split upon firing. Another fractured in the same way but at the top of the right raceway when a fellow 'smith attempted to remove the barrel with an inside action wrench.
Still, I always admired both models simply because they were attractive, well-made, rifles.
I recently saw one of the Parker-Hale Hussars in 308 Norma and had to struggle against the stirrings of acquistive desire.
The later BRNO models, the ZKK's, were somewhat more crudely made but were a solid, robust action and the pop-up peep sight was a gem. Sadly, the designer of the trigger seemed to have been paid by the piece and the trigger was complex and required more stock material to be removed. Today's CZ550's are descended from these. The trigger is still far from perfect but it is better. Minor design changes could have made it much better.
GD

Thanks, DDJ. I really like that ZG47 in 30-06! Schnabel forend with the red pad, ooo yeah!! Great caliber, too. How's it shoot?

Eric

Both of the ZG47's shoot well. My per load for the "true" BRNO is 180 Barnes over a charge of H4350. The 30-06's will be my son and my rifles if we do a African hunt.


ddj

Awesome. Congrats on your collection!

Eric

At the risk of being ...obtuse..., I must aay that young "GD" is well worth listening to on this and related topics.

I have never seen a 21/22 show any issues, other than the abortion of a safety that they were equipped with at the factory, except those few fabulous specimens made with the ZG bolt-safety...and, I have one, seen four others in almost 50 years with the "roundbolt" but that gawdforsaken safety that lets your bolt open when your rifle is shouldered.

However, as with my beloved P-64-70s, I can see how this can/would happen and a very well known BC smith, now retired, once split a P-64 action that Joe Dlask had surface ground and detailed for me at considerable cost and over three years.......

So, with this in mind and now that Alaska Arms offers their fine triggers to fit the ZGs, I have to agree with Bill and I have often stated that it is THE "best" action ever for serious big game rifles up to .416 Rigbys, etc. IF, they had kept the original Mauser trigger lug and had the EARLY type "peep"of the first ZKKs,it would be "perfect".

I have wanted a P-H Hussar in .308Norma for 20+ years and would gladly buy one for a very good price if anyone has one that they want to sell. I can be reached here by PM, or, at my e-mail, wodaxemsn.com. I love ZGs, just find they work for me like P-64 .338 Alaskans and .270 Fwts do, I can always use another one.

So, some nice pix of fine rifles here, there are still decent ones for sale here in Canada and at good prices, so, get one while you can and see what CAN be done in a factory to produce a fine rifle...I will take my polished receiver ZGs in 9,3x62 over my fine Dakota, .338WM and they cost maybe 1/3 as much, fully customized by Martini.

I am not that keen on the ZKKs, owned five of them and now have a CZ-550 9.3 being customized by Martini's former assistant in Cranbrook, this with one of AHR's discontinued Micky handles. I think that the 550s can be made into VERY fine rifles and at a cost that most can handle, not always the case with less available actions/rifles.

JSTUART,thanks...those are very nice looking rings.

Luckily I found a Brno 21 H for sale 2 weeks ago, at Latulippe's, in Quebec-City.

It chambers the 8x57S round and features a 23-3/4" barrel.

The stippled receiver ring measures 1.287". It has the CZ logo engraved. The left receiver wall is straight (no thumb notch). The hump is not machined for strip loading. The bolt has no guide-rib. The spoon-type bolt handle is unaltered and bears the last two digits of the rifle's serial number.

The low-profile bolt-shroud incorporates a wing safety on the left side.

Center to center distance between the receiver screws is 19,9 cm (+~-), i.e. 7.480"

The rifle has the typical german double-set trigger (deutscher Doppelstecher). The distinct trigger-bow is of shotgun type.

The barrel bears a two leaf rear sight dovetailed into an integral ramp. A barrel band sling swivel is soldered about 10" ahead of the receiver's front end. A dovetailed screw attachement is provided about 13,5" ahead of the receiver. The screw that runs through the stock probably regulates the vibration of the barrel.

The barrelled action seems to be rust-blued. All in all, this rifle is in full original, unaltered condition.

The stock is stamped with the barrelled action serial number which is 230XX

The brand name is roll-stamped on the left receiver wall. It says "Zrbrojovka Brno, Narodni Podnik"

Next to the Czech proof marks I can read the digit 4. The next digit may well be the number 9 but I am not sure. Obviously the punches of the Czech proof house must have been worn. There is another marking on the barrel, ahead of the step which reads made in czechoslovakia 7*9 . Could that mean "July (4)9?

Anyone have a clue as to the date of manufacturing?

1949, month was not stamped, only year. 7.9 refers to it being an 8x57.

Hi z1r!

Is it the serial number that makes you think of a 1949 production rifle?

When did Brno switch from the round receiver to the receiver with integral rails for scope mounts?

I hesitate having a scope mount installed as it implies tapping/drilling the receiver for a base.

Unless I have the bolt handle altered there is no way an STD - type base can be used: even Weaver's Grand Slam X-tra high 1" rings won't clear the objectives of present-day scopes.

I have written an e-mail to EGW asking them if they would provide me with a custom Pica/Weaver base if I send them the receiver/ bolt measurement.

As to the 1.287" front ring measurement of my rifle, I guess polishing has to do with it.

I wonder if these rifles were not made of unfinished, leftover military receivers?

Any clues?

The 49 stamping is the year. No guide rib on the bolt coincides with the era. Military actions had the thumbcut and stripper clip guides which you say yours doesn't. Kinda rules out surplus military action. The transition to integral scope bases came about in the early 50's as I recall. I can check mine to see their dates.

Yes, mounting a scope on yours would entail having the receiver drilled and tapped. And, as you say, you will need high rings to be able to use the bolt handle with a scope. Even higher rings if the scope is European with a big ocular bell.

Scope or no scope, that is the question...

How did my grandpas hunt when scopes were rarities???

Me, I'd be inclined to leave it alone if it is in good shape. Fairly rare bird. There are enough altered Brno's out there if you want to scope one. I picked up this one some time ago that had already had the bolt handle altered for a lower scope. Picked it up for a nice price.

This 7x57 and Talley rings works fine with the factory handle:

Both these have the integral dovetails.

It turns out my Carbine was made in 1949 also. So, I'd say it is safe to say that they were making the integral mount actions in 1949. Mine has the guide rib on the bolt as well. It might have been an option even in the early years to choose between a round top or square bridge action. Even though I can't really shoot open sights that well anymore, I'd love to have an original round top Brno.


One thing that I have thought about previously is that while the receivers weren't leftover wartime production, the bolts may have been. Toward the end of the war to expedite production, the guide rib was left off the bolt bodies. It would make sense that as the transition to sporting arms was taking place, these bolt bodies would have been used. Likely the straight handle was cut off and the new spoon handle welded on. That is how FN transitioned from wartime production back to commercial production as well.

You can't really tell form the pictures but that 7x57 of mine looks to be unfired. No blemishes anywhere. An amazing little rifle. Luckily the 8x57 wasn't so nice so I get to shoot the heck out of it! And boy, does it shoot!

Would love to see pics of your rifle!

That carbine is a pretty nice rig!

Really enjoyed rereading this resurrected thread...

Me too! I like reading Bob’s posts!!

Some notes about the dovetails. I hope the gentlemen on here with much more experience than I can concur or reflect on my comments.

1. The Brno ZG-47 dovetails should be the same as the the dovetailed 21's.
2. Permanent CZ550 mounts are not an exact fit on Brno's although many manufacturers claim that they are. Some "vertically halved" mounts might seem to fit Brno's. But the geometry of the scope tube area might be compromised.
3.On my first ZG-47, I had fitted a Leupold CZ550 scope mount and the side clip did not suit me as it leaned on a sharp angle.
4. CZ dovetails measure under 19mm (if I recall - 18.87?) and Brno's measure over 19mm (19.12?) and the CZ's have a nipple under the mount.
5. Generic CZ550 stationary mounts will need some material trimmed from the sides at the dovetail area and the nipple removed in order for them to be an exact fit on a Brno. (?)

Thanks in advance for your opinion..
CB

Just a quick note to thank z1r for the information he's provided.

I have chosen to have the rifle's stock refreshed and will get it today. In the meantime I have done some research as to possible scope mount bases, starting with the measurements of the rifle's receiver by a professionnal machinist.

There's a one piece, picattiny EGW base en route to Canada and it takes quite some time and canadian dollars to get a hold of it. Once it arrives I will be able to make a decision as to whether I should have the receiver drilled and tapped or not.

I would be glad to post pictures of the parts and rifle, except I do not know how to post pictures on this forum.

In case z1r can get in touch with me by private MP I will send him pictures and if he finds them interesting maybe he could post them.

Regards to all,

JMS

Haven't looked at this thread in years, but let me add some info on 21H/22F rifles. Apparently the transition from round-top to square bridge receivers occurred in the SN 21,000 range, year 1949. Looking at sales on the internet, SN 23224 had a round top receiver while SN23649 had the double square bridge with scope mount dovetails. Both had 49 markings indicating year of manufacture. HTH.