Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game warning shot 4 Yogi...?

I am somewhat perplexed, amused & alarmed (mix of those 3) ...at the "accounts" of quite a few who HAVE been "charged" by a Grizz or Brown and have had the luxury of a bit of "time & distance"?
What I mean is....they did NOT shoot, but waited to determine if it was the allegedly common "bluff" charge.
ARE THEY SERIOUS???
Given the below ... copy of 2 posts from another forum that describe, (as do many others from other forums)...just how fast and how much ground a bear can cover with little time to react, EVEN in the case of decent yardage & open country at the onset of the "charge'....who, repeat WHO, in thier right mind is NOT going to shoot and wait and see if it is a "bluff"...and that so called "wait" or hesitation often brings that bear within precious few yards or feet with NO time left after that in which to react if it turns out not a bluff?

SEE THIS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMbnmLLnsfw

Uh, I don't think so...as for me...as they say int the world of dirtbag "perp" assaults..."I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6"...YES, bring on the Dept. of Wildlife officers...said bear charges me especially with the luxuray of some distance & time...bear dies (hopefully, lol) no benefit of doubt here!

ALSO...If I am in Brown/Grizz country and NOT hunting them, I want as much gun/caliber with cartridges/bullets that offer a combination or balance of the most M.E. - S.D. & MEPLAT in the largest bore I can handle...quick handling & iron sights...say something like a Marlin 1895 SBL in 45-70 loaded with Garrett Hammerhead ammo...if I AM hunting them, then give me similar in a longer reaching flatter shooting hunting round but with similar "most M.E. - S.D. & MEPLAT in the largest bore I can handle".

QOUTE: "#9 Re: 300 win mag vs. grizz.......?
Posted
08/06/2008
08:53 AM
Yes you can but why? For grizz go for a 340 and a heavy for caliber premium bullet. Grizz are large powerful, heavly muscled, dense tissued, big boned, and very tough. An enraged grizz can cover 100 yards in about 5 seconds with his lungs full of blood and running dead on his feet. If you do not anchor him on the first shot he may go down, he may not. If he does go down when he gets back up he will be running in what ever direction his nose is pointing. If that direction is your direction you are now in deep kimchee my son. It will be at that precise moment in time that you will wish you had a bigger gun in your hand instead of your johnson. If he runs into the thick, now you got to have your marlbourgh moment and then go in and get em. You do not want to do that. This is where things get real intense real fast. It is now time to break out the automatic 12 guage shotguns loaded with magnum slugs with short rifled barrels. Scoped rifles are useless in the thick alder and devils club. Keep in mind if he is not dead he is back tracking you with one thought in mind, to kill you.
Cheers & Tighter Groups: Eaglesnester


#12 Re: 300 win mag vs. grizz.......?
Posted
08/12/2008
06:53 PM
I got charged twice yesterday by a sub-adult who was being,as they say, a "hooligan"! On the first charge the bear covered about 120 yds. in about 6-8 sec. They look like a small car coming at you! On the second charge it ran through some very heavy underbrush and over a lot of deadfall as if nothing was there at all. The first charge he stopped at about 20 yds., then came about 5 yds. closer in 3 bounds. The second charge he stopped about 10 ft.! away. He woofed,snorted and flaired his lips and nostrils. I was wishing I had a 12 gauge with 2 rds. of O buck and a magazine of slugs! All I had was a can of pepper spray and a trekking pole. This is my tenth and most aggressive encounter so far. They are huge, fast, agile creatures."
16n69
Joined: 04/19/12
Posts: 3Send P.M.
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I've been in that situation and lived through it. Back when I had my encounter you had to prove bodily harm before you were legal to shoot the griz.

I've run the hills with many who encountered the same and those who actually pulled the trigger and even those who got chewed on by the griz. One was lucky enough to live through it and I've had the privilege of sharing a fire with him a few times and got the detailed blow by blow encounter.

All have one thing in common. Bear spray was the difference. Most were dropping hammers on empty chamber and cycling the bolts on empty mags.

I don't give a flying [bleep] who you think you are in regards to shooting ability and if you have the biggest cannon on the block.
The griz is fast, agile, athletic and nimble even when running through dead fall and heavy timber. For all you gunslingers out there who think you are man enough to throw lead at a changing griz intended to eat you. And are so sure you could place several into the CNS whilst he or even worse she, is on a dead run at you. You're full of schit. The CNS is probably the only way you're gonna stop a griz charge.

Carry on gunslingers and dream your dreams of saving your life when ole griz is zeroing in on you.

Dawning the flame suit for the day dreamers and expert marksmen.

Many people have proved they ARE NOT full of sh-t....

...and you, good sir (or m'am...?)...sound like a "tree hugging save the whales Obama love'n card carrying liberal"...BEAR SPRAY...how many fumble trying to fire off that stuff...and wind...hope it is blowing in a favorable direction...and an adrenaline filled charging apex predator, intending on eating you, gonna stop dead in it's tracks from pepper when it endures far nastier pain when foraging for food...nah, I will fill him full of as much lead in as short a time as possible and if it comes to this ...after I have emptied the mag of my rifle in it...I will offer up my left arm which at the end of it will be my S&W .500 Mag emptying down it's throat while it is trying to swallow my arm...

C'mon...to be respected as the Earth's leading apex predator...for sure...but bears are not Abrams Tanks...and a CNS may not be the ONLY stopper, busting shoulder & hips, mechanical breakdown, to SLOW it down for "time" for a more killing shot is also a possibility.
While I NEVER want to be in this position and WiLL do ALL to avoid it...(unless, of course, I am hunting and unfortunately find myself being the "hunted"...)
...it has been done, many times and in a full out charge...I doubt MOST are going to be reaching for or fumbling with a can of pepper...if armed with a rifle.
Nah...
The QUESTION was NEVER "bear spray vs. firearm" I am the OP so I know that......it was whether to shoot when faced with a "charge" or wait, wait, wait and see & hope it MAY be a "bluff" ...duh, huh...no I don't think so, why would you ...to save the bear??? Please. Legal ramifications...schiit who cares, life is precious...boom-BOOM!!!

Well since you've chosen to go nasty and asume you know more about me than you do azzmunch.

How many bears have you encountered sally?

How many times have you fired at a bear sally?

How many times have you used Bear spray sally?



Really cowgirl? You're sure assuming a lot here. You've not the coconuts nor wherewithal. Easily seen by your typed words.



really Joanna Wayne....The bear that took it's liberties on my campfire friend didn't slow down one bit with over 6 rounds in it. It took over 6 more to even make it twitch. It managed to round up it's cubs and make it to the bottom of a drainage before she expired.



Wanna wager? Since you've so much real world experience with this stuff I see no reason why you wouldn't be confident enough to put up or shut up. Go put on your internet cowgirls suit and do more daydreaming about how macho you are.

Now for the record I am far from a tree huggin' obama lover you so eloquently described me as.

What I am saying is that Bear spray works an often is increasingly more effective than a firearm when used correctly.

Next time you get off your couch and wound a bear let me know how that works out for you. Better pass along you next of kin information.

It is easier to make one correct decision with a bear than try to correct the wrong one... but you knew that.

CNS shots are not always required to stop the bear. In the linked video the bear stopped from the muzzle blast. There have been many bears hit and stopped without a CNS shot. Unfortunately for Cocadori's friend it didn't.

If you are going to fumble with a gun, then you probably will with pepper spray. I use my rifle and handgun throughout the year and use them automatically, they both require less fine motor skills than bear spray.

Many of my bear encounters happen at fairly close range and the bear is checking things out. The dog or horse has them picked up and we are ready if the bear decides to press the issue. I'm also glad I don't have to deal with brush as think as they have in Alaska.

I don't think I'd be inclined to fire warning shots though. I agree with the OP, I'll deal with the Guts & Feathers boys rather then my wife get an insurance check. There are bears killed every year in the lower 48 in self-defense and almost none get questioned.

As a youngster I was told throw chit in a bears face to stop a charge. When I asked just where I was going to find that while being pursued I was told to just reach behind myself, there'd be plenty.

Yogi it has been my experience Cocadori doesn't just spout off, he does talk about what he knows. Might want to reconsider. There is something about man-eaters that produce a bit of a freeze when a person (mortals anyway) is under charge. You can be sort of mesmerized while your mind is asking if this is really going to happen while you should be thinking about bullet placement. I'd say getting a shot off under charge shows a great deal of experience and steel nerves.

just a point of fact......there are alot of dead hunters in the history books to have shot a lion in full charge and yet still get killed only to have the lion die less than a minute after the hunter expired, and a lion is much more susceptible to bullet shock than a bear....

while im all for packing a gun in bear country you might want to rethink your "it will slow him down good enough" line of thought....even if yah had a gun powerful enough to blow off a leg at the distances involved in a bear charge he will still be plenty close enough to get to you before dieing of blood loss....and a bear is plenty strong enough to do you in in short order...

Prezactly.

Ralphie, my friend got chewed on in your neck of the woods... jus' sayin'

I was charged by a 400 pound Black Bear in Ontario back in the late 60's.
I stopped him at about 10 yards. But, what I'm trying to say is my state of mind at that point. The only thought that crossed my mind was "so this is how it is".
Crazy!
If it had been a Grizzly, I'da been dead meat.

Ever hear a cop tell stories of guys getting a face full of pepper spray and they keep coming? Ever try to spray bear spray in a headwind? How much muscle memory (practice) is required before you are just as quick and accurate with bear spray as you are with your rifle? Just some questions that pop to mind when I think of the merits of bear spray as opposed to almost 100 gr. of Retumbo going off behind a 168gr. of lead. I know which one I figure is more likely to stop an unwounded bear. I really hope that I never know for sure too.

Sticky situation. I've talked with people who praise the spray and others who claim its nothing more than seasoning.

I'll take both and hope to have the Casull in my hand if he gets on me

Sally,

I've stopped no less than 7 bears with spray. I've changed 5+ bears minds with cannon fire. I've fought 1 with both.

You never answered any of my questions sally.... but I suspected you couldn't/wouldn't.

So how many do you know exactly that have killed charging grizzly's? And what state exactly?

THANK YOU...I can probably rest my case, with that...many others agree on other forums too...if you are going to carry a gun, then USE IT...and worry about the consequences later...NOT gonna give something that can close on me in seconds and rip me apart in even less ANY benefit of the doubt or chance to prove they are "sincere & committed" and not just "bluffing" ...DUH, ya think?

HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BRAVADO, EXPERIENCE, MACHO...just wanted to get some "feedback" from fellow hunters, PHs, AK guides and such...and this "THING" about hesitating to "see" if YOGI is juss bluffin....
give me a break!

So what is your solution...what are you suggesting...to just lay down and die...not to try???
Why hire a guide or PH then or hunt in a group...or practice with your firearm and shoot thousands of rounds thru until the rifle/action/recoil etc. becomes reflex...huh?

According to Ms. "C", there is NO hope short of silly a$$ bear spray...were ALL DOA in bear country...might as well never go to the range, sight in, hire a guide or PH...were all dead no matter how many times we shoot the bear it lives on to Bruce Lee us all while it's bleeding out...

So LESLIE...how many bears you STOP charging with you McCormick Cayenne spicer???
You made it sound like bears do NOT respond to well placed rifle fire...THEY DO and while I have had the good fortune not to have to defend ...YET...I know a few who have and put that bear down in one shot, if not a CNS complete shutdown, a severe slowdown and finished them off with further shots.
So Rachel PepperRay ...save your pepper for your designer salads on your "girls night out"

WoW...12 bear charges...you live amongst them?
Maybe you should change your handle from Cocadori to "Dances with Bears" or
Grizzly "pepperdude" Adams?

BFY or Polska or whoever you are, read:

bear study

more

i've killed bears and i've sprayed 'em. these days, i do not want to kill every bear that shows a little attitude. i merely want to get me and my tribe back to the truck without bite marks.