I am somewhat perplexed, amused & alarmed (mix of those 3) ...at the "accounts" of quite a few who HAVE been "charged" by a Grizz or Brown and have had the luxury of a bit of "time & distance"? What I mean is....they did NOT shoot, but waited to determine if it was the allegedly common "bluff" charge. ARE THEY SERIOUS??? Given the below ... copy of 2 posts from another forum that describe, (as do many others from other forums)...just how fast and how much ground a bear can cover with little time to react, EVEN in the case of decent yardage & open country at the onset of the "charge'....who, repeat WHO, in thier right mind is NOT going to shoot and wait and see if it is a "bluff"...and that so called "wait" or hesitation often brings that bear within precious few yards or feet with NO time left after that in which to react if it turns out not a bluff?
Uh, I don't think so...as for me...as they say int the world of dirtbag "perp" assaults..."I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6"...YES, bring on the Dept. of Wildlife officers...said bear charges me especially with the luxuray of some distance & time...bear dies (hopefully, lol) no benefit of doubt here!
ALSO...If I am in Brown/Grizz country and NOT hunting them, I want as much gun/caliber with cartridges/bullets that offer a combination or balance of the most M.E. - S.D. & MEPLAT in the largest bore I can handle...quick handling & iron sights...say something like a Marlin 1895 SBL in 45-70 loaded with Garrett Hammerhead ammo...if I AM hunting them, then give me similar in a longer reaching flatter shooting hunting round but with similar "most M.E. - S.D. & MEPLAT in the largest bore I can handle".
QOUTE: "#9 Re: 300 win mag vs. grizz.......? Posted 08/06/2008 08:53 AM Yes you can but why? For grizz go for a 340 and a heavy for caliber premium bullet. Grizz are large powerful, heavly muscled, dense tissued, big boned, and very tough. An enraged grizz can cover 100 yards in about 5 seconds with his lungs full of blood and running dead on his feet. If you do not anchor him on the first shot he may go down, he may not. If he does go down when he gets back up he will be running in what ever direction his nose is pointing. If that direction is your direction you are now in deep kimchee my son. It will be at that precise moment in time that you will wish you had a bigger gun in your hand instead of your johnson. If he runs into the thick, now you got to have your marlbourgh moment and then go in and get em. You do not want to do that. This is where things get real intense real fast. It is now time to break out the automatic 12 guage shotguns loaded with magnum slugs with short rifled barrels. Scoped rifles are useless in the thick alder and devils club. Keep in mind if he is not dead he is back tracking you with one thought in mind, to kill you. Cheers & Tighter Groups: Eaglesnester
#12 Re: 300 win mag vs. grizz.......? Posted 08/12/2008 06:53 PM I got charged twice yesterday by a sub-adult who was being,as they say, a "hooligan"! On the first charge the bear covered about 120 yds. in about 6-8 sec. They look like a small car coming at you! On the second charge it ran through some very heavy underbrush and over a lot of deadfall as if nothing was there at all. The first charge he stopped at about 20 yds., then came about 5 yds. closer in 3 bounds. The second charge he stopped about 10 ft.! away. He woofed,snorted and flaired his lips and nostrils. I was wishing I had a 12 gauge with 2 rds. of O buck and a magazine of slugs! All I had was a can of pepper spray and a trekking pole. This is my tenth and most aggressive encounter so far. They are huge, fast, agile creatures." 16n69 Joined: 04/19/12 Posts: 3Send P.M. ModifyRemoveQuote this post
I've been in that situation and lived through it. Back when I had my encounter you had to prove bodily harm before you were legal to shoot the griz.
I've run the hills with many who encountered the same and those who actually pulled the trigger and even those who got chewed on by the griz. One was lucky enough to live through it and I've had the privilege of sharing a fire with him a few times and got the detailed blow by blow encounter.
All have one thing in common. Bear spray was the difference. Most were dropping hammers on empty chamber and cycling the bolts on empty mags.
I don't give a flying [bleep] who you think you are in regards to shooting ability and if you have the biggest cannon on the block. The griz is fast, agile, athletic and nimble even when running through dead fall and heavy timber. For all you gunslingers out there who think you are man enough to throw lead at a changing griz intended to eat you. And are so sure you could place several into the CNS whilst he or even worse she, is on a dead run at you. You're full of schit. The CNS is probably the only way you're gonna stop a griz charge.
Carry on gunslingers and dream your dreams of saving your life when ole griz is zeroing in on you.
Dawning the flame suit for the day dreamers and expert marksmen.
I've been in that situation and lived through it. Back when I had my encounter you had to prove bodily harm before you were legal to shoot the griz.
I've run the hills with many who encountered the same and those who actually pulled the trigger and even those who got chewed on by the griz. One was lucky enough to live through it and I've had the privilege of sharing a fire with him a few times and got the detailed blow by blow encounter.
All have one thing in common. Bear spray was the difference. Most were dropping hammers on empty chamber and cycling the bolts on empty mags.
I don't give a flying [bleep] who you think you are in regards to shooting ability and if you have the biggest cannon on the block. The griz is fast, agile, athletic and nimble even when running through dead fall and heavy timber. For all you gunslingers out there who think you are man enough to throw lead at a changing griz intended to eat you. And are so sure you could place several into the CNS whilst he or even worse she, is on a dead run at you. You're full of schit. The CNS is probably the only way you're gonna stop a griz charge.
Carry on gunslingers and dream your dreams of saving your life when ole griz is zeroing in on you.
Dawning the flame suit for the day dreamers and expert marksmen.
...and you, good sir (or m'am...?)...sound like a "tree hugging save the whales Obama love'n card carrying liberal"...BEAR SPRAY...how many fumble trying to fire off that stuff...and wind...hope it is blowing in a favorable direction...and an adrenaline filled charging apex predator, intending on eating you, gonna stop dead in it's tracks from pepper when it endures far nastier pain when foraging for food...nah, I will fill him full of as much lead in as short a time as possible and if it comes to this ...after I have emptied the mag of my rifle in it...I will offer up my left arm which at the end of it will be my S&W .500 Mag emptying down it's throat while it is trying to swallow my arm...
C'mon...to be respected as the Earth's leading apex predator...for sure...but bears are not Abrams Tanks...and a CNS may not be the ONLY stopper, busting shoulder & hips, mechanical breakdown, to SLOW it down for "time" for a more killing shot is also a possibility. While I NEVER want to be in this position and WiLL do ALL to avoid it...(unless, of course, I am hunting and unfortunately find myself being the "hunted"...) ...it has been done, many times and in a full out charge...I doubt MOST are going to be reaching for or fumbling with a can of pepper...if armed with a rifle. Nah... The QUESTION was NEVER "bear spray vs. firearm" I am the OP so I know that......it was whether to shoot when faced with a "charge" or wait, wait, wait and see & hope it MAY be a "bluff" ...duh, huh...no I don't think so, why would you ...to save the bear??? Please. Legal ramifications...schiit who cares, life is precious...boom-BOOM!!!
Well since you've chosen to go nasty and asume you know more about me than you do azzmunch.
How many bears have you encountered sally?
How many times have you fired at a bear sally?
How many times have you used Bear spray sally?
Quote
after I have emptied the mag of my rifle in it...I will offer up my left arm which at the end of it will be my S&W .500 Mag emptying down it's throat while it is trying to swallow my arm...
Really cowgirl? You're sure assuming a lot here. You've not the coconuts nor wherewithal. Easily seen by your typed words.
Quote
busting shoulder & hips, mechanical breakdown, to SLOW it down for "time" for a more killing shot is also a possibility.
really Joanna Wayne....The bear that took it's liberties on my campfire friend didn't slow down one bit with over 6 rounds in it. It took over 6 more to even make it twitch. It managed to round up it's cubs and make it to the bottom of a drainage before she expired.
Quote
gonna stop dead in it's tracks from pepper when it endures far nastier pain when foraging for food...nah
Wanna wager? Since you've so much real world experience with this stuff I see no reason why you wouldn't be confident enough to put up or shut up. Go put on your internet cowgirls suit and do more daydreaming about how macho you are.
Now for the record I am far from a tree huggin' obama lover you so eloquently described me as.
What I am saying is that Bear spray works an often is increasingly more effective than a firearm when used correctly.
Next time you get off your couch and wound a bear let me know how that works out for you. Better pass along you next of kin information.
It is easier to make one correct decision with a bear than try to correct the wrong one... but you knew that.
CNS shots are not always required to stop the bear. In the linked video the bear stopped from the muzzle blast. There have been many bears hit and stopped without a CNS shot. Unfortunately for Cocadori's friend it didn't.
If you are going to fumble with a gun, then you probably will with pepper spray. I use my rifle and handgun throughout the year and use them automatically, they both require less fine motor skills than bear spray.
Many of my bear encounters happen at fairly close range and the bear is checking things out. The dog or horse has them picked up and we are ready if the bear decides to press the issue. I'm also glad I don't have to deal with brush as think as they have in Alaska.
I don't think I'd be inclined to fire warning shots though. I agree with the OP, I'll deal with the Guts & Feathers boys rather then my wife get an insurance check. There are bears killed every year in the lower 48 in self-defense and almost none get questioned.
As a youngster I was told throw chit in a bears face to stop a charge. When I asked just where I was going to find that while being pursued I was told to just reach behind myself, there'd be plenty.
Yogi it has been my experience Cocadori doesn't just spout off, he does talk about what he knows. Might want to reconsider. There is something about man-eaters that produce a bit of a freeze when a person (mortals anyway) is under charge. You can be sort of mesmerized while your mind is asking if this is really going to happen while you should be thinking about bullet placement. I'd say getting a shot off under charge shows a great deal of experience and steel nerves.
and a CNS may not be the ONLY stopper, busting shoulder & hips, mechanical breakdown, to SLOW it down for "time" for a more killing shot is also a possibility.
just a point of fact......there are alot of dead hunters in the history books to have shot a lion in full charge and yet still get killed only to have the lion die less than a minute after the hunter expired, and a lion is much more susceptible to bullet shock than a bear....
while im all for packing a gun in bear country you might want to rethink your "it will slow him down good enough" line of thought....even if yah had a gun powerful enough to blow off a leg at the distances involved in a bear charge he will still be plenty close enough to get to you before dieing of blood loss....and a bear is plenty strong enough to do you in in short order...
and a CNS may not be the ONLY stopper, busting shoulder & hips, mechanical breakdown, to SLOW it down for "time" for a more killing shot is also a possibility.
just a point of fact......there are alot of dead hunters in the history books to have shot a lion in full charge and yet still get killed only to have the lion die less than a minute after the hunter expired, and a lion is much more susceptible to bullet shock than a bear....
while im all for packing a gun in bear country you might want to rethink your "it will slow him down good enough" line of thought....even if yah had a gun powerful enough to blow off a leg at the distances involved in a bear charge he will still be plenty close enough to get to you before dieing of blood loss....and a bear is plenty strong enough to do you in in short order...
Prezactly.
Ralphie, my friend got chewed on in your neck of the woods... jus' sayin'
I was charged by a 400 pound Black Bear in Ontario back in the late 60's. I stopped him at about 10 yards. But, what I'm trying to say is my state of mind at that point. The only thought that crossed my mind was "so this is how it is". Crazy! If it had been a Grizzly, I'da been dead meat.
Ever hear a cop tell stories of guys getting a face full of pepper spray and they keep coming? Ever try to spray bear spray in a headwind? How much muscle memory (practice) is required before you are just as quick and accurate with bear spray as you are with your rifle? Just some questions that pop to mind when I think of the merits of bear spray as opposed to almost 100 gr. of Retumbo going off behind a 168gr. of lead. I know which one I figure is more likely to stop an unwounded bear. I really hope that I never know for sure too.
Well since you've chosen to go nasty and asume you know more about me than you do azzmunch.
How many bears have you encountered sally?
How many times have you fired at a bear sally?
How many times have you used Bear spray sally?
Quote
after I have emptied the mag of my rifle in it...I will offer up my left arm which at the end of it will be my S&W .500 Mag emptying down it's throat while it is trying to swallow my arm...
Really cowgirl? You're sure assuming a lot here. You've not the coconuts nor wherewithal. Easily seen by your typed words.
Quote
busting shoulder & hips, mechanical breakdown, to SLOW it down for "time" for a more killing shot is also a possibility.
really Joanna Wayne....The bear that took it's liberties on my campfire friend didn't slow down one bit with over 6 rounds in it. It took over 6 more to even make it twitch. It managed to round up it's cubs and make it to the bottom of a drainage before she expired.
Quote
gonna stop dead in it's tracks from pepper when it endures far nastier pain when foraging for food...nah
Wanna wager? Since you've so much real world experience with this stuff I see no reason why you wouldn't be confident enough to put up or shut up. Go put on your internet cowgirls suit and do more daydreaming about how macho you are.
Now for the record I am far from a tree huggin' obama lover you so eloquently described me as.
What I am saying is that Bear spray works an often is increasingly more effective than a firearm when used correctly.
Next time you get off your couch and wound a bear let me know how that works out for you. Better pass along you next of kin information.
It is easier to make one correct decision with a bear than try to correct the wrong one... but you knew that.
So LESLIE...how many bears you STOP charging with you McCormick Cayenne spicer??? You made it sound like bears do NOT respond to well placed rifle fire...THEY DO and while I have had the good fortune not to have to defend ...YET...I know a few who have and put that bear down in one shot, if not a CNS complete shutdown, a severe slowdown and finished them off with further shots. So Rachel PepperRay ...save your pepper for your designer salads on your "girls night out"
CNS shots are not always required to stop the bear. In the linked video the bear stopped from the muzzle blast. There have been many bears hit and stopped without a CNS shot. Unfortunately for Cocadori's friend it didn't.
If you are going to fumble with a gun, then you probably will with pepper spray. I use my rifle and handgun throughout the year and use them automatically, they both require less fine motor skills than bear spray.
Many of my bear encounters happen at fairly close range and the bear is checking things out. The dog or horse has them picked up and we are ready if the bear decides to press the issue. I'm also glad I don't have to deal with brush as think as they have in Alaska.
I don't think I'd be inclined to fire warning shots though. I agree with the OP, I'll deal with the Guts & Feathers boys rather then my wife get an insurance check. There are bears killed every year in the lower 48 in self-defense and almost none get questioned.
THANK YOU...I can probably rest my case, with that...many others agree on other forums too...if you are going to carry a gun, then USE IT...and worry about the consequences later...NOT gonna give something that can close on me in seconds and rip me apart in even less ANY benefit of the doubt or chance to prove they are "sincere & committed" and not just "bluffing" ...DUH, ya think?
HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BRAVADO, EXPERIENCE, MACHO...just wanted to get some "feedback" from fellow hunters, PHs, AK guides and such...and this "THING" about hesitating to "see" if YOGI is juss bluffin.... give me a break!
As a youngster I was told throw chit in a bears face to stop a charge. When I asked just where I was going to find that while being pursued I was told to just reach behind myself, there'd be plenty.
Yogi it has been my experience Cocadori doesn't just spout off, he does talk about what he knows. Might want to reconsider. There is something about man-eaters that produce a bit of a freeze when a person (mortals anyway) is under charge. You can be sort of mesmerized while your mind is asking if this is really going to happen while you should be thinking about bullet placement. I'd say getting a shot off under charge shows a great deal of experience and steel nerves.
"Might want to reconsider"...reconsider what...to leave my gun home on his recommendation and love of aerosol??? Not likely.
and a CNS may not be the ONLY stopper, busting shoulder & hips, mechanical breakdown, to SLOW it down for "time" for a more killing shot is also a possibility.
just a point of fact......there are alot of dead hunters in the history books to have shot a lion in full charge and yet still get killed only to have the lion die less than a minute after the hunter expired, and a lion is much more susceptible to bullet shock than a bear....
while im all for packing a gun in bear country you might want to rethink your "it will slow him down good enough" line of thought....even if yah had a gun powerful enough to blow off a leg at the distances involved in a bear charge he will still be plenty close enough to get to you before dieing of blood loss....and a bear is plenty strong enough to do you in in short order...
So what is your solution...what are you suggesting...to just lay down and die...not to try??? Why hire a guide or PH then or hunt in a group...or practice with your firearm and shoot thousands of rounds thru until the rifle/action/recoil etc. becomes reflex...huh?
According to Ms. "C", there is NO hope short of silly a$$ bear spray...were ALL DOA in bear country...might as well never go to the range, sight in, hire a guide or PH...were all dead no matter how many times we shoot the bear it lives on to Bruce Lee us all while it's bleeding out...
Well since you've chosen to go nasty and asume you know more about me than you do azzmunch.
How many bears have you encountered sally?
How many times have you fired at a bear sally?
How many times have you used Bear spray sally?
Quote
after I have emptied the mag of my rifle in it...I will offer up my left arm which at the end of it will be my S&W .500 Mag emptying down it's throat while it is trying to swallow my arm...
Really cowgirl? You're sure assuming a lot here. You've not the coconuts nor wherewithal. Easily seen by your typed words.
Quote
busting shoulder & hips, mechanical breakdown, to SLOW it down for "time" for a more killing shot is also a possibility.
really Joanna Wayne....The bear that took it's liberties on my campfire friend didn't slow down one bit with over 6 rounds in it. It took over 6 more to even make it twitch. It managed to round up it's cubs and make it to the bottom of a drainage before she expired.
Quote
gonna stop dead in it's tracks from pepper when it endures far nastier pain when foraging for food...nah
Wanna wager? Since you've so much real world experience with this stuff I see no reason why you wouldn't be confident enough to put up or shut up. Go put on your internet cowgirls suit and do more daydreaming about how macho you are.
Now for the record I am far from a tree huggin' obama lover you so eloquently described me as.
What I am saying is that Bear spray works an often is increasingly more effective than a firearm when used correctly.
Next time you get off your couch and wound a bear let me know how that works out for you. Better pass along you next of kin information.
It is easier to make one correct decision with a bear than try to correct the wrong one... but you knew that.
So LESLIE...how many bears you STOP charging with you McCormick Cayenne spicer??? You made it sound like bears do NOT respond to well placed rifle fire...THEY DO and while I have had the good fortune not to have to defend ...YET...I know a few who have and put that bear down in one shot, if not a CNS complete shutdown, a severe slowdown and finished them off with further shots. So Rachel PepperRay ...save your pepper for your designer salads on your "girls night out"
i've killed bears and i've sprayed 'em. these days, i do not want to kill every bear that shows a little attitude. i merely want to get me and my tribe back to the truck without bite marks.
ONCE AGAIN...The QUESTION was NEVER "bear spray vs. firearm, but whether to shoot when charged or wait and see if it is just a bluff...which I think is just CRAZY and/or impossible.
i've also killed 'em and i've sprayed 'em. i do not want to kill every bear that shows a little attitude. i merely want to get me and my tribe back to the truck without bite marks.
"attitude"...never talking about "attitude". IN A FULL OUT CHARGE...you gonna wait-hesitte and see if it is a bluff...you gonna waste shots in your mag on so called "warning"...waste SECONDS as it closes on you.RIDICULOUS ... and so are those who say that can be or should be done. Take the time your given and line up your best shot and fire, fire fire. There should never be ANY accounts of "bluff" charges...either the bear moves away when presented with humans-noise, whatever, or it charges, in which you shoot to kill right from the start...bluff charge, absurd. Even more is to hesitate to see??? [/i]
I've stopped no less than 7 bears with spray. I've changed 5+ bears minds with cannon fire. I've fought 1 with both.
You never answered any of my questions sally.... but I suspected you couldn't/wouldn't.
So how many do you know exactly that have killed charging grizzly's? And what state exactly?
WoW...12 bear charges...you live amongst them? Maybe you should change your handle from Cocadori to "Dances with Bears" or Grizzly "pepperdude" Adams?
No I don't live amongst them but I take my opinions and pass them along from real life experiences. Nothing more nothing less. Not all were full on charges. Some were situations where the bear needed to leave. Forced into situations where I needed to do some tings to get the bears attention or redirect his agenda. I used what I thought would escalate his attitude enough to stop bluffing/charging/or leave.
I've noticed you sorry azz couch potato self didn't answer any of the questions. Yet I have answered all yours. I'll keep pounding bear country and you keep reading the words on the computer and acting like you've done something.
No this ins't spray vs gun. But... spray needs to be in your arsenal. Well not yours but guys going into bear country.
Please tell me more about what you've heard from guys who've been there. If only because that gives your words credibility and validity.
So Sally I've been fortunate enough to spend an hour or 2 in bear country and learned a few things about sharing their space. I'm forced not to guess on what it's like. I've handled things my way and many other have handled things their way. For many it worked out fine and likewise for myself. We all have our own methods.
i've killed bears and i've sprayed 'em. these days, i do not want to kill every bear that shows a little attitude. i merely want to get me and my tribe back to the truck without bite marks.
So you buy into that anti-gun agenda and NO WAY to determine how many unreported unsuccessful spraying vs. successful vs. shootings both successful and unsuccessful...on and on. BOTTOM line, I WILL NEVER HESITATE IF CHARGED...at least, that is MY best intention...vs. waiting to see if the bear was just bluffing...idiotic!
Doesn't matter. Just add another idiot to the list.
For the first 8 years after I joined there was no reason to put anybody on "ignore," but have found in the past couple of years that sitting around the 'Fire a lot more relaxing with half-a-dozen people ignored. When I open a thread and see quite a few ignored posts then I don't have to waste any more time.
What...is BOTH you guys problem? EXPERIENCE does NOT matter in regards to the question I (OP) posted... ...I WANTED TO KNOW THE RATIONALE BEHIND THOSE WHO ALLEGEDLY SAY OR GIVE ACCOUNT OF HESITATING...WAITING WHEN CHARGED TO SEE IF THE BEAR IS BLUFFING...THAT SEEMED TO ME, JUST INSANE, IRRATIONAL, ILLOGICAL BASED ON THE TRUTH THAT IN MOST CASES, AND I THINK YOU UBER EXPERIENCED GUYS WOULD AGREE...YOU HAVE VERY LITTLE TIME TO REACT. WHAT "BLUFF" HOW? WAIT TO SEE AND YOUR DEAD. IF PUT IN THAT POSITION WHILE HUNTING OR HIKING, AND I HOPE NOT TO BE...ALL I AM SAYING, THERE WILL BE NO CHANCE FOR THE BEAR TO "SHOW" HE IS "BLUFFING"...I SHOOT AND EITHER HE DIES OR I DO IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH? OR ACCORDING TO YOU GUYS...THERE IS NO HOPE FOR ANYONE NO MATTER THE EXPERIENCE" YOU ARE DEAD IF CHARGED??? Have you inhaled too much bear spray...is this TOO hard a concept to understand?
I've stopped no less than 7 bears with spray. I've changed 5+ bears minds with cannon fire. I've fought 1 with both.
You never answered any of my questions sally.... but I suspected you couldn't/wouldn't.
So how many do you know exactly that have killed charging grizzly's? And what state exactly?
WoW...12 bear charges...you live amongst them? Maybe you should change your handle from Cocadori to "Dances with Bears" or Grizzly "pepperdude" Adams?
No I don't live amongst them but I take my opinions and pass them along from real life experiences. Nothing more nothing less. Not all were full on charges. Some were situations where the bear needed to leave. Forced into situations where I needed to do some tings to get the bears attention or redirect his agenda. I used what I thought would escalate his attitude enough to stop bluffing/charging/or leave.
I've noticed you sorry azz couch potato self didn't answer any of the questions. Yet I have answered all yours. I'll keep pounding bear country and you keep reading the words on the computer and acting like you've done something.
No this ins't spray vs gun. But... spray needs to be in your arsenal. Well not yours but guys going into bear country.
Please tell me more about what you've heard from guys who've been there. If only because that gives your words credibility and validity.
So Sally I've been fortunate enough to spend an hour or 2 in bear country and learned a few things about sharing their space. I'm forced not to guess on what it's like. I've handled things my way and many other have handled things their way. For many it worked out fine and likewise for myself. We all have our own methods.
You keep reading and pretending. I works for you.
"I works for you"...I don't think so...you never going to "work for me"... I would hire someone who KNOWS what they are doing if I decide on a Kodiak hunt..."I works for you"...sounds like you just fell off the 'tator truck".
BTW ...JACKASS MARY...I have been in "bear country, MT. ,WY. and AK... and not just hanging around the "dude' ranch with my PC ragging on fellow hunters as you seem to do. I do not have to validate my "experience" or legitimacy to you 2 "LEGENDS-IN-YOUR-OWN-MINDS" ...big Buwana hunters... Just because I have yet to defend a gizz charge does not mean I HAVE NOT hunted DG elsewhere...you internet a$$wipes are all the same. I had a legitimate 'post" with a legitimate question as to who are these idiots that fire warning shots at a charging Grizz and WHY?
Doesn't matter. Just add another idiot to the list.
For the first 8 years after I joined there was no reason to put anybody on "ignore," but have found in the past couple of years that sitting around the 'Fire a lot more relaxing with half-a-dozen people ignored. When I open a thread and see quite a few ignored posts then I don't have to waste any more time.
BTW ...JACKASS MARY...I have been in "bear country, MT. ,WY. and AK... and not just hanging around the "dude' ranch with my PC ragging on fellow hunters as you seem to do. I do not have to validate my "experience" or legitimacy to you 2 "LEGENDS-IN-YOUR-OWN-MINDS" ...big Buwana hunters... Just because I have yet to defend a gizz charge does not mean I HAVE NOT hunted DG elsewhere...you internet a$$wipes are all the same. I had a legitimate 'post" with a legitimate question as to who are these idiots that fire warning shots at a charging Grizz and WHY?
BTW ...JACKASS MARY...I have been in "bear country, MT. ,WY. and AK... and not just hanging around the "dude' ranch with my PC ragging on fellow hunters as you seem to do. I do not have to validate my "experience" or legitimacy to you 2 "LEGENDS-IN-YOUR-OWN-MINDS" ...big Buwana hunters... Just because I have yet to defend a gizz charge does not mean I HAVE NOT hunted DG elsewhere...you internet a$$wipes are all the same. I had a legitimate 'post" with a legitimate question as to who are these idiots that fire warning shots at a charging Grizz and WHY?
I've watched TV hunting show once or twice too.
You seem to be the "dude" here.
I suspect...TV hunting show are ALL you watch...there lies your "experience" Mary.
There was NOTHING wrong with my OP...and this "question" can be posed from someone with much hunting experience, as myself...or a gringo like some who have "flamed" on me with their ghetto English ... YOU 2 Buwanas ...just did not like my post and your HUGE egos and pee size intellect got in the way.
and a CNS may not be the ONLY stopper, busting shoulder & hips, mechanical breakdown, to SLOW it down for "time" for a more killing shot is also a possibility.
just a point of fact......there are alot of dead hunters in the history books to have shot a lion in full charge and yet still get killed only to have the lion die less than a minute after the hunter expired, and a lion is much more susceptible to bullet shock than a bear....
while im all for packing a gun in bear country you might want to rethink your "it will slow him down good enough" line of thought....even if yah had a gun powerful enough to blow off a leg at the distances involved in a bear charge he will still be plenty close enough to get to you before dieing of blood loss....and a bear is plenty strong enough to do you in in short order...
So what is your solution...what are you suggesting...to just lay down and die...not to try??? Why hire a guide or PH then or hunt in a group...or practice with your firearm and shoot thousands of rounds thru until the rifle/action/recoil etc. becomes reflex...huh?
According to Ms. "C", there is NO hope short of silly a$$ bear spray...were ALL DOA in bear country...might as well never go to the range, sight in, hire a guide or PH...were all dead no matter how many times we shoot the bear it lives on to Bruce Lee us all while it's bleeding out...
your an idiot.....never said lay down and die....said im all for packing a gun.....just stated the hitting around the edges to slow them down line of thought is flawed and ppl have died cause of it with critters alot less tough than a griz.....im all for shooting it out if ythe bear is close enough that you feel its your only choice.....just drop the stupid bullchit that shooting around the edges trying to break a bear down to stop them with something less than a CNS hit.....
if its not a bluff charge and a griz is dead set to get you a shot to the hip or shoulder is not gonna buy you enough time to save your hide....only way it does is if the bear is far enough away you shouldnt feel like your in immediate fight for your life danger...if you feel threatened for your life you better be going for a CNS hit not trying to shoot the [bleep] in the leg....
I'd just like to point out to the OP, this is an internet forum not an Ouija board, therefore those telling you what they did obviously aren't speaking from the grave, so there opinions are based on something that DID work for them. That makes what they have to say far more valid than anything said by people who have not experienced it.
and a CNS may not be the ONLY stopper, busting shoulder & hips, mechanical breakdown, to SLOW it down for "time" for a more killing shot is also a possibility.
just a point of fact......there are alot of dead hunters in the history books to have shot a lion in full charge and yet still get killed only to have the lion die less than a minute after the hunter expired, and a lion is much more susceptible to bullet shock than a bear....
while im all for packing a gun in bear country you might want to rethink your "it will slow him down good enough" line of thought....even if yah had a gun powerful enough to blow off a leg at the distances involved in a bear charge he will still be plenty close enough to get to you before dieing of blood loss....and a bear is plenty strong enough to do you in in short order...
So what is your solution...what are you suggesting...to just lay down and die...not to try??? Why hire a guide or PH then or hunt in a group...or practice with your firearm and shoot thousands of rounds thru until the rifle/action/recoil etc. becomes reflex...huh?
According to Ms. "C", there is NO hope short of silly a$$ bear spray...were ALL DOA in bear country...might as well never go to the range, sight in, hire a guide or PH...were all dead no matter how many times we shoot the bear it lives on to Bruce Lee us all while it's bleeding out...
your an idiot.....never said lay down and die....said im all for packing a gun.....just stated the hitting around the edges to slow them down line of thought is flawed and ppl have died cause of it with critters alot less tough than a griz.....im all for shooting it out if ythe bear is close enough that you feel its your only choice.....just drop the stupid bullchit that shooting around the edges trying to break a bear down to stop them with something less than a CNS hit.....
if its not a bluff charge and a griz is dead set to get you a shot to the hip or shoulder is not gonna buy you enough time to save your hide....only way it does is if the bear is far enough away you shouldnt feel like your in immediate fight for your life danger...if you feel threatened for your life you better be going for a CNS hit not trying to shoot the [bleep] in the leg....
plenty of hunters have STOPPED bears without CNS hit...what edges, never said that...a Garrett 540 gr. Hammerhead fired from a 45-70 will plough clean thru and disrupt a whole lot a bear on the way...as will a Brenneke BM. I know guys who have stopped a grizz with handguns...you guys are really spooked? If I am in bear country and that sucker is foolish enough to charge me...it is going down...hard, 'cause I will be packing enough heat to blow it's sorry furry a$$ to kingdom come...you pansies can have your cayenne...
...plenty of hunters have STOPPED bears without CNS hit...what edges, never said that...a Garrett 540 gr. Hammerhead fired from a 45-70 will plough clean thru and disrupt a whole lot a bear on the way...as will a Brenneke BM. I know guys who have stopped a grizz with handguns...you guys are really spooked? If I am in bear country and that sucker is foolish enough to charge me...it is going down...hard, 'cause I will be packing enough heat to blow it's sorry furry a$$ to kingdom come...you pansies can have your cayenne...
Am I the only one who gets the sense that someone is living in bear-charge fantasy land?
...plenty of hunters have STOPPED bears without CNS hit...what edges, never said that...a Garrett 540 gr. Hammerhead fired from a 45-70 will plough clean thru and disrupt a whole lot a bear on the way...as will a Brenneke BM. I know guys who have stopped a grizz with handguns...you guys are really spooked? If I am in bear country and that sucker is foolish enough to charge me...it is going down...hard, 'cause I will be packing enough heat to blow it's sorry furry a$$ to kingdom come...you pansies can have your cayenne...
Am I the only one who gets the sense that someone is living in bear-charge fantasy land?
Klikitarit, you need to listen and learn from this selfless brother, who can introduce us to the real world of Big Bad Bears with the best gen since Li'l Red Riding Hood (or maybe that was a Big Bad Wolf).
The best gun and ammo combo I've heard of for Big Bad Bears is to use cylinder cut marshmallows in a customized paintball gun. It gives a cool outdoorsman many options depending on the range and whether the bear's mouth is open. And in survival situations, a man can always eat his ammo.
I've only been to Alaska once. It was to help a buddy work a gold claim. I asked around about grizzly bears. I talked to one guide about it. he told me if I wasn't hunting, but just wanted to stop them if they charged to bring something big.
So, I brought a .458 mag loaded with 500gr bullets. I never had to use it, but I was ready.
I've only been to Alaska once. It was to help a buddy work a gold claim. I asked around about grizzly bears. I talked to one guide about it. he told me if I wasn't hunting, but just wanted to stop them if they charged to bring something big.
So, I brought a .458 mag loaded with 500gr bullets. I never had to use it, but I was ready.
OK , yes finally a civil reply...some earlier ones on the 1st page as well, before Cocadori & Toad and a few other egotistical idiots hijacked my thread.
And WHY my OP has recieved so much "Flame & heat"...is beyond me? I am a seasoned hunter...just like many here. I admit, without "shame" (??? why would it be???) ...that I never have been charged by a grizz , brown or bear of any type...but SO WHAT ! I merely wanted feedback on this "idea" or "accounts" of guys WAITING & HESITATING to "see" if it is a "BLUFF" charge...seemed to me foolish and contradictory to ALL that is described by those WHO have been charged/ mauled / or STOPPED a charge...namely, it happens FAST, you are lucky just to get off ONE round...and time & placement is of the essence...so WAIT to SEE... NUTS!!! However, over & over, I heard form those who said bear was charging but turned out to be a "bluff"...uh, I would NOT wait, or give that bear a chance...I am going to give it my BEST and put it down if possible...NOT "hesitate"...no giving a apex predator of any kind a chance to back off or abort...who cares if it dies needlessly because it would have stopped the LASt 10,20,30 feet of a charge...MY LIFE and YOURS is worth a hell of a lot more than wildlife conservation...SO...WHAT, whats some of you dumbshights (Cocadori & Toad. Rancho Loco, Muledeer and the rest)... problem? Not had this trouble on any other forum? Lot of rabid, rancid EGO here? BIG BAD Buwanas so FULL of themselves, and the "notches" on their belts. Bullys & Punks. Pure PUKE.
You two jerks above are real arrogant A$$WHOLES...what makes you think you are so much more competent than others...you should both throw you sorry A$$es into the campfire for about 24 hrs.,...wise up, Buwana. If you both spent as much time in the field as you do in front of the computer flaming other bros in the sporting community, maybe you would have some real world experience with DG instead of this comic book stuff you "claim"?
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good...finally, one less jerkoff in the discussion
Why not make it two, and leave?
Because it is my thread...and you few A$$wipes are the ones causing all the trouble...with your stupid comments & inflated egos. You join the list of jackoffs and leave...so I can get some REAL opinions from guys who KNOW...instead of you DVD & PC "outdoorsmen".
The real question is, what knife would you guys recommend for bear defense?..
I like to use the B4Y knife set. It's not traditional by any means its a 69" blade and weighs 15 lbs. But it's the biggest mofo blade in the hills. You just need to get used to dragging it around. Because I don't wait until I can scientifically determine if it is a bluff charge or a real charge. I am at the ready with it when ever I get withing a half mile of bear territory.
I've fired warning shots twice on non-charging, "on- alert" or curious bears. Had no effect on them at all. Perhaps spraying gravel in their face would, but sound had no effect on them at all.
I have since decided that my "warning shot" is going to do some physical damage if charged by a bear. I've been in a few confrontations, but no "charges".
I've found the sound of a human voice has been the most effective deterant. I've never carried pepper spray, but usually do carry a firearm, tho not always.
I've read spray is more effective as a deterant than hot lead, and maybe it is - I've no experience either way after 44 years dinging around Alaska. We've got a pact going - if they won't try to put big ugly holes in me, I'll return the favor, and so far it's worked.
I have brown bears, often with cubs, by and through my yard in Sterling on a regular basis - like at least once a week, and often more often during salmon runs especially (the river is a quarter mile away, and they like to sleep up on my wooded hilltop, away from all those noisy, dangerous fishermen....). They get on my deck and leave foot prints in the frost in the pick-up bed, and drive the dogs nuts...
Bearanoia is way-overblown.
Oh yeah- you can't carry pepper spray on a commercial flight in your baggage or on your person - but you can bring a firearm firearm as baggage..
So I was out tooling around and came across this rock chuck.
At least you know how to access Nat Geo archives...and cut & paste.
LOL... awww Sally. I appreciate the compliment on my photo skills. But even Nat Geo wouldn't post a picture that poor. To many lighting issues, the rule of 3rds is just amiss. Not to mention slightly out of focus. But I had other things to monitor aside from the mentioned photographic issues. See there's more to the picture.
I asked all three and they assured me they wouldn't charge me nor bluff charge. Seems they were on a mission to find some porridge. Seems some chick took a few spoon fulls of theirs and they were still a tad hungry.
I really like that last pic of the pair walking on snow.
Agreed on photo quality of our bears. My shots were blurry, due to hand held camera in low light (not due to the shakes freom bearnoia.) Great word, by the way, Las! I will borrow it.
Kinda funny to me when a guy reads on the internet what others have written on a topic, asks questions of what others would do in the situation, then has the audacity to call out folks with actual real experience about how their plan os flawed when it doesn't match his mall ninja plan.
Like a wide man once said : you can bullchit the fans but not the players.
Feel free to dream up any macho plan you want dude but as for me I will take my advice from the actual players and disregard the dreams of the fans
Kinda funny to me when a guy reads on the internet what others have written on a topic, asks questions of what others would do in the situation, then has the audacity to call out folks with actual real experience about how their plan os flawed when it doesn't match his mall ninja plan.
Like a wide man once said : you can bullchit the fans but not the players.
Feel free to dream up any macho plan you want dude but as for me I will take my advice from the actual players and disregard the dreams of the fans
...except for ONE small thing...most, if ALL of you internet Buwanas "great white hunters"...are just Nat Geo couch potato PH's who sit behind the PC all day flaming anyone who comes by with a tread or post you don't feel is worthy of where you live or the "safe queen" guns you collect but never use.
Cut & paste away and tell your campfire tales of imaginary conquests...like the Buwana here who said he has been charged 12 TIMES and stopped 7 with pepper and 5 with lead...lol...WoW, pretty amazing "stats" coming form the SAME "types" who say bear "charges" are sooooooooo rare...and easily avoided by a seasoned Buwana like himself, by making ones presence known and avoiding "spots" where Yogi hangs...
I've fired warning shots twice on non-charging, "on- alert" or curious bears. Had no effect on them at all. Perhaps spraying gravel in their face would, but sound had no effect on them at all.
I have since decided that my "warning shot" is going to do some physical damage if charged by a bear. I've been in a few confrontations, but no "charges".
I've found the sound of a human voice has been the most effective deterant. I've never carried pepper spray, but usually do carry a firearm, tho not always.
I've read spray is more effective as a deterant than hot lead, and maybe it is - I've no experience either way after 44 years dinging around Alaska. We've got a pact going - if they won't try to put big ugly holes in me, I'll return the favor, and so far it's worked.
I have brown bears, often with cubs, by and through my yard in Sterling on a regular basis - like at least once a week, and often more often during salmon runs especially (the river is a quarter mile away, and they like to sleep up on my wooded hilltop, away from all those noisy, dangerous fishermen....). They get on my deck and leave foot prints in the frost in the pick-up bed, and drive the dogs nuts...
Bearanoia is way-overblown.
Oh yeah- you can't carry pepper spray on a commercial flight in your baggage or on your person - but you can bring a firearm firearm as baggage..
FINALLY...reality from the REAL DEAL...and not the DVD campfire Buwanna-be's in MT & WY with thier tourist park bears....and photo-ops ...good to hear from someone who actually LIVES amongst the critters and has to deal with them in close proximity...YES, I will not run out my mag making noise, if charged, but put 'em where it counts.
Why do these campfire Buwanna-B's in MT, carry a rifle if when charged they will fumble with a can of old spice? And what "happened" to..."rare" and common sense "avoidance"...ALL that "experienced hunter wisdom" they claim that makes a bear charge so rare? One guy claimed he was charged 12 times. Talk about fantasy
I've fired warning shots twice on non-charging, "on- alert" or curious bears. Had no effect on them at all. Perhaps spraying gravel in their face would, but sound had no effect on them at all.
I have since decided that my "warning shot" is going to do some physical damage if charged by a bear. I've been in a few confrontations, but no "charges".
I've found the sound of a human voice has been the most effective deterant. I've never carried pepper spray, but usually do carry a firearm, tho not always.
I've read spray is more effective as a deterant than hot lead, and maybe it is - I've no experience either way after 44 years dinging around Alaska. We've got a pact going - if they won't try to put big ugly holes in me, I'll return the favor, and so far it's worked.
I have brown bears, often with cubs, by and through my yard in Sterling on a regular basis - like at least once a week, and often more often during salmon runs especially (the river is a quarter mile away, and they like to sleep up on my wooded hilltop, away from all those noisy, dangerous fishermen....). They get on my deck and leave foot prints in the frost in the pick-up bed, and drive the dogs nuts...
Bearanoia is way-overblown.
Oh yeah- you can't carry pepper spray on a commercial flight in your baggage or on your person - but you can bring a firearm firearm as baggage..
FINALLY...reality from the REAL DEAL...and not the DVD campfire Buwanna-be's in MT & WY with thier tourist park bears....and photo-ops ...good to hear from someone who actually LIVES amongst the critters and has to deal with them in close proximity...YES, I will not run out my mag making noise, if charged, but put 'em where it counts.
Why do these campfire Buwanna-B's in MT, carry a rifle if when charged they will fumble with a can of old spice? And what "happened" to..."rare" and common sense "avoidance"...ALL that "experienced hunter wisdom" they claim that makes a bear charge so rare? One guy claimed he was charged 12 times. Talk about fantasy
guessing someone doesnt understand the range of griz......someone from Alaska is the end all of knowledge(i do trust what las says but as always its a sample of one and just his experience not the end all of knowledge).....but the guys in Montana and Wyoming that also live around the things are full of chit and their experiences arent real....couple of the guys the have posted from Montana have been in the field a hell of alot more than some Alaskans on this forum.....might wanna watch who you get your info from....
the couch potato bwana on this thread is you dumb arse....
Cut & paste away and tell your campfire tales of imaginary conquests...like the Buwana here who said he has been charged 12 TIMES and stopped 7 with pepper and 5 with lead...lol...WoW, pretty amazing "stats" coming form the SAME "types" who say bear "charges" are sooooooooo rare...and easily avoided by a seasoned Buwana like himself, by making ones presence known and avoiding "spots" where Yogi hangs...
See part of your problem is reading and reading comprehension. See below.
Originally Posted by Cocadori
Not all were full on charges. Some were situations where the bear needed to leave. Forced into situations where I needed to do some things to get the bears attention or redirect his agenda. I used what I thought would escalate his attitude enough to stop bluffing/charging/or leave.
Now avoiding spots where yogi hangs is darn near perfected by yourself and I've yet to encounter one in a living room. Even less likely to be on a couch. However, I did have neighbor have one tear apart his garage.
See Yogi often hangs where your intended quarry hangs or at least you must traverse through the areas to get to your preferred areas of your intended quarry. You having never encountered yogi kinda says, well...much.
I'll rest my case. Stand by my original suggestion that bear spray needs to be utilized when applicable. However, there's much to that. Now where did I put that nat geo book..I'm not done scanning pics.
Thought I'd make one last post on this subject, even though I put you on "ignore" early. The problems with your original post are:
1) You assume the only way to be safe in bear country is to shoot any bear you see, immediately. At least that's what your post appears to say.
2) Yes, there are ways to tell if a bear is bluff-charging or serious. A bluffing bear bounces up and down on its front legs while coming, with its head and ears up, often "popping" its jaws. The charge may turn serious, but not usually, and a bluff usually comes from farther away. A serious bear comes right toward you, running low, with its ears back--like the one in the video--without the jaw-popping.
3) Apparently you've never encountered a wild grizzly or brown bear. Most of the rest of us have. I encountered my first over 50 years ago, here in Montana, but have also been around a lot of 'em in British Columbia, the Northwest Territories, Wyoming and Alaska, where I've hunted them twice, taking one nice boar. Have spent considerable time up close to both grizzlies and browns. Have used bear spray a couple of times, but only shot when I took my one bear. (Oh, and by the way, yes it's a lot easier to "hit" a bear with spray than a single bullet.)
4) The most experienced brown bear guide I know (he's been at it for over 25 years on the Peninsula) carries bear spray and a handgun when guiding fisherman in Alaska. He considers spray the first line of defense, and occasionally has to use it. I've been within 15 feet of a big sow with him. He had his hand on his revolver, loose in its holster, but had the spray out. When he's guiding bear hunters he carries a rifle, and has used everything from the .30-06 to the .505 Gibbs as backup, though his favorite is a .458 Winchester.
My wife got a great photo of a "charging" bear at about 15 yards when we were fishing with him a couple years ago. Except the bear wasn't charging us. Instead it was after a salmon in the river at our feet. I suppose you would have shot the bear just because.
And then there was Mule Deer. Who brings some sanity to the discussion.
Well said and spot on.
I will add that the bluff will often begin with some head swinging and growling while facing the other way. The tell tail sign is the hop. If that turns to a low head and a dash... game on ...err..or game over.
Yep, though sows often start bouncing and popping immediately if their cubs are anywhere near.
A lot depends if the cubs are between the mama and you--as in the video. She was COMING--but I also suspect when the handgun went off, she'd hit deeper water, which slowed her down. Might have been different on dry land.
However, I have seen a number of aggressive or just curious animals stopped (or at least paused) by warning shots, including a cow elephant in Botswana. Also saw a charging cow moose turned back by a chainsaw in British Columbia!
I've fished among the big Alaskan brown bears a few times. Never had to shoot one, thankfully.
Shooting the bear would likely ruin a perfectly good fly fishing trip for salmon! My bear photos aren't as good as those that others have posted:
Couple of young brownies near a fishing cabin.
Surf bear, right at the mouth of the river. Good fishing there, and he knows it!
Bigger than my size 12 boot:
I decided to try a different fishing spot... Avoiding conflict seemed smarter than pushing in on a bear's spot.
Dad took these while fly fishing for salmon, on Kodiak Island. He didn't have any trouble with the bears either:
Hope I never have to shoot a brownie or grizz in self defense. Would enjoy a hunt for either someday. If I do have to pop one to save my skin, I hope I'm quick enough and accurate enough. Generally pack a .44 mag revolver with hard cast 300 gr bullets and I shoot it reasonably well. I'd rather avoid them if possible though, and that's been possible for quite a few years of hiking and fishing in bear country though. Never have been charged, and hopefully never will be charged.
Cocodori has a LOT of outdoor experience in grizzly country. Bears that are NOT afraid of people, and that have killed several people over the past few years. Couple of years ago, hunting mulies in that country, my pard and I found ourselves walking in the footsteps of a mama and cub grizzly. Not a comfortable feeling, armed with sagebrush country deer rifles, a .25-06 and a .270 Win. It was a long three mile hike back to the truck with our boned out deer...
You along with the other couch Buwana idiots...Cocadori, Toad, and the like... CANNOT READ...I never SAId or even implied...shooting the bear on sight...read the OP dummy...I was saying how illogical WAITING and risking the seconds YOU have with a charge ...as if you hesitate what little time you had to get in a well placed shot or 2 may me gone...I HAVE been charged by DIFFERENT DG , just not a BEAR with their so called "BLUFF" charges...and I sure as hell will never give one a chance to prove it was just "bluffing"...NOT with a close range charge... REAd the OP...I was wondering the rational of those who hesitate..(who often are the SAME guys who bloviate about how little time & how lucky you are to get one shot...???)
Thought I'd make one last post on this subject, even though I put you on "ignore" early. The problems with your original post are:
1) You assume the only way to be safe in bear country is to shoot any bear you see, immediately. At least that's what your post appears to say.
2) Yes, there are ways to tell if a bear is bluff-charging or serious. A bluffing bear bounces up and down on its front legs while coming, with its head and ears up, often "popping" its jaws. The charge may turn serious, but not usually, and a bluff usually comes from farther away. A serious bear comes right toward you, running low, with its ears back--like the one in the video--without the jaw-popping.
3) Apparently you've never encountered a wild grizzly or brown bear. Most of the rest of us have. I encountered my first over 50 years ago, here in Montana, but have also been around a lot of 'em in British Columbia, the Northwest Territories, Wyoming and Alaska, where I've hunted them twice, taking one nice boar. Have spent considerable time up close to both grizzlies and browns. Have used bear spray a couple of times, but only shot when I took my one bear. (Oh, and by the way, yes it's a lot easier to "hit" a bear with spray than a single bullet.)
4) The most experienced brown bear guide I know (he's been at it for over 25 years on the Peninsula) carries bear spray and a handgun when guiding fisherman in Alaska. He considers spray the first line of defense, and occasionally has to use it. I've been within 15 feet of a big sow with him. He had his hand on his revolver, loose in its holster, but had the spray out. When he's guiding bear hunters he carries a rifle, and has used everything from the .30-06 to the .505 Gibbs as backup, though his favorite is a .458 Winchester.
My wife got a great photo of a "charging" bear at about 15 yards when we were fishing with him a couple years ago. Except the bear wasn't charging us. Instead it was after a salmon in the river at our feet. I suppose you would have shot the bear just because.
"I suppose you would have shot the bear" YOU BET...I am not as brave as you (or ..?) ...hmmm, maybe that charging bear is not going to kill me...hmmm maybe he is just passing thru on the way to a fish or berry patch behind me...???
I've fired warning shots twice on non-charging, "on- alert" or curious bears. Had no effect on them at all. Perhaps spraying gravel in their face would, but sound had no effect on them at all.
Yep. Noise alone, IME, so very infrequently works, as be useless IMO. What has worked well on many occasions when a more comfortable space has been desired is to give a bear a blast of rock and bullet dust by shooting rocks or gravel - not wood, tundra, dirt, etc- nearby.
The question a thread like this needs an answer to in the first place is, "why and how are you getting yourself in a bear-charge situation to begin with?" If, through intent or ignorance you're setting yourself up, then prepare to pay/suffer the consequences.
Thankfully, I have never had to fire against a bear. I have been bluff charged by a black bear, that bout soiled my pants.
I have had to shoot at a mountain lion. He was on an open trail, with me, and I had no where to go. He decided to put his ears back, head down, and come forward. I looked thought the scope and couldn't see him. (too close and too high mag) so I peeked over the scope and fired, hit the ground between his front legs. He decided I didn't look tasty, and headed the other way. I wonder if bear spray woulda worked then?...
Yep, though sows often start bouncing and popping immediately if their cubs are anywhere near.
Agreed.
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Also saw a charging cow moose turned back by a chainsaw in British Columbia!
That right there always gave me more anxiety than the fuzzy brown stuff. Those things have no fear when agitated! I was never a fan of being invited to a Mexican hat dance as the guest of honor..the hat.
"I suppose you would have shot the bear" YOU BET...I am not as brave as you (or ..?) ...hmmm, maybe that charging bear is not going to kill me...hmmm maybe he is just passing thru on the way to a fish or berry patch behind me...???
Wow... see MD and many other here have a thing called situational awareness. Many outdoors-man do. I'm confident that MD has it.
bulletsforyogi Morons like you have NO FRIKKIN BUSINESS in the outdoors- You are too ignorant to learn from people that know more than you do, you have no respect for the animals, and you have no inkling of your own pathetic limitations. Then you come on a public forum laced with people that have more experience, intelligence, maturity and common sense than you and attempt to impress them and others with your obnoxious behavior. You need to stay in your own safe bac k yard and fiddle with your dibble.
MD, superb posts, as are some of the others. In spite of yogi, this thread is producing some high quality info for those with ears to hear.
Below is a photo of a sow grizzly in mid bounce of her front paws. At the same time she was swinging her head high, side to side and bawling to curdle blood. Her two small cubs are closer to the camera, their ears visible over the edge of the road bank. Wide angle camera lens: the sow is much closer than she appears.
One further comment about bear "charges:" as indicated by previous posts, there are many reasons why a bear might run toward a human that are not attacks. I don't count bears running toward my predator call a charge, though there is a delightful youtube video of a young woman bow hunter who kills a black bear in a "charge" to a predator call. Animals running away from the echo of a shot off a wall of trees or a hillside often run toward the shooter. I watched a black bear chase butterflies toward me. etc.
And good point about the fact that animals running toward you aren't necessarily charging. My wife just posted some photos she took in Alaska of a brown bear "charging" us--you can see them at: www.facebook.com/DeepCreekPress.
"I suppose you would have shot the bear" YOU BET...I am not as brave as you (or ..?) ...hmmm, maybe that charging bear is not going to kill me...hmmm maybe he is just passing thru on the way to a fish or berry patch behind me...???
Wow... see MD and many other here have a thing called situational awareness. Many outdoors-man do. I'm confident that MD has it.
Based on your typed words...well....
GOOD MORNING MONTANA...greetings to you Billings Buwanas & Great WHITEfish hunters...IT'S A NEW DAY...and Nat Geo just released another Bear DVD for your "cut-n-paste" adventures... Hey...I got your S.A. swinging. yeah...I left my S.A. in 'NAM...try yur' campfire SA in the Mekong Delta... I don't give a rats a$$ what the bears true intentions are...if it is coming at me in ANY way it will be SHOT... ...no "warm & fuzzy" wildlife sensitivity like from you KUMBAYAHOO types...
bulletsforyogi Morons like you have NO FRIKKIN BUSINESS in the outdoors- You are too ignorant to learn from people that know more than you do, you have no respect for the animals, and you have no inkling of your own pathetic limitations. Then you come on a public forum laced with people that have more experience, intelligence, maturity and common sense than you and attempt to impress them and others with your obnoxious behavior. You need to stay in your own safe bac k yard and fiddle with your dibble.
Fred Royce
It's arrogant dibbles like you that give outdoorsmen a scat-like scent.
I would shoot, no doubt. I was charged by a black bear sow with cubs after a pretty lengthy standoff, with me trying to slowly back away and talk in a calm voice (calm by shaky). She kept pace with me for a while and finally got tired of screwing with me and charged. I had already had time (and forethought) to take out my bear spray, and arm it so when she charged I was ready. The spray turned her away and she gathered up her cubs and headed back up the trail where she had come from. Was she bluff charging? I'll never know because I fired the spray at approx. 30 ft and when she hit it she immediately turned back. I'm glad it worked because I emptied the can (I was a little overzealous). I was archery hunting in a unit in CO where you are not allowed to carry a firearm in archery season. I usually carry a sidearm during archery season whenever it's allowed but in this case, had I been carrying, I would certainly have fired my revolver at her (because I had plenty of time to do so). I can't tell you what the outcome would have been. I do NOT live in bear country, but I try to visit their backyards as much as I can and have had a few bear encounters in my life in CO, NM, ID, MT , WY, AK and Canada. I do not know if I would be able to make a CNS hit on a bear at full charge, and I hope I am lucky enough never to find out. All I know is that bears are VERY FAST!!! I've had a couple other close encounters when I was carrying but the bears never charged, just showed enough interest in me that is scared the hell out of me before they (or I) left the scene. They are fast and powerful creatures, but certainly not unstoppable. Most bears I see are headed the other direction, and fast. I just hope I never have to experience something like that again. One last observation, I never seem to have any problems with bear close encounters on the handful of occasions that I've actually had a bear tag in my pocket!
bulletsforyogi Morons like you have NO FRIKKIN BUSINESS in the outdoors- You are too ignorant to learn from people that know more than you do, you have no respect for the animals, and you have no inkling of your own pathetic limitations. Then you come on a public forum laced with people that have more experience, intelligence, maturity and common sense than you and attempt to impress them and others with your obnoxious behavior. You need to stay in your own safe bac k yard and fiddle with your dibble.
Fred Royce
It's arrogant dibbles like you that give outdoorsmen a scat-like scent.
How's that saying go.. Kettle, Pot, Black, calling or somthin'
"I suppose you would have shot the bear" YOU BET...I am not as brave as you (or ..?)
Maybe you should learn bear body language better. You don't have the right to shoot every bear that walks towards you.
WHEN did I say "walks towards you"...I said "charge" ...and YES I know the difference between an animal "walking" towards me and a charge...just different animals than Grizzly / Brown bears...and THAT is what my OP was about....before these DVD NatGeo Glacier Park Buwanas started to flame me to inflate further their full-of-hot-air egos and hijacked the thread.
I started with a legitimate OP and respectful question...until these MORONS with bear scat for brains got a hold of it.
I would shoot, no doubt. I was charged by a black bear sow with cubs after a pretty lengthy standoff, with me trying to slowly back away and talk in a calm voice (calm by shaky). She kept pace with me for a while and finally got tired of screwing with me and charged. I had already had time (and forethought) to take out my bear spray, and arm it so when she charged I was ready. The spray turned her away and she gathered up her cubs and headed back up the trail where she had come from. Was she bluff charging? I'll never know because I fired the spray at approx. 30 ft and when she hit it she immediately turned back. I'm glad it worked because I emptied the can (I was a little overzealous). I was archery hunting in a unit in CO where you are not allowed to carry a firearm in archery season. I usually carry a sidearm during archery season whenever it's allowed but in this case, had I been carrying, I would certainly have fired my revolver at her (because I had plenty of time to do so). I can't tell you what the outcome would have been. I do NOT live in bear country, but I try to visit their backyards as much as I can and have had a few bear encounters in my life in CO, NM, ID, MT , WY, AK and Canada. I do not know if I would be able to make a CNS hit on a bear at full charge, and I hope I am lucky enough never to find out. All I know is that bears are VERY FAST!!! I've had a couple other close encounters when I was carrying but the bears never charged, just showed enough interest in me that is scared the hell out of me before they (or I) left the scene. They are fast and powerful creatures, but certainly not unstoppable. Most bears I see are headed the other direction, and fast. I just hope I never have to experience something like that again. One last observation, I never seem to have any problems with bear close encounters on the handful of occasions that I've actually had a bear tag in my pocket!
"They are fast and powerful creatures, but certainly not unstoppable" +1 ...and if one runs toward me, I will spend my 1-5 seconds going for CNS , shoulder and hips...
bulletsforyogi Morons like you have NO FRIKKIN BUSINESS in the outdoors- You are too ignorant to learn from people that know more than you do, you have no respect for the animals, and you have no inkling of your own pathetic limitations. Then you come on a public forum laced with people that have more experience, intelligence, maturity and common sense than you and attempt to impress them and others with your obnoxious behavior. You need to stay in your own safe bac k yard and fiddle with your dibble.
Fred Royce
It's arrogant dibbles like you that give outdoorsmen a scat-like scent.
How's that saying go.. Kettle, Pot, Black, calling or somthin'
...nuther 4 U, Butte Buwana...shoe fits...wear it!
Bullets for yogi Why the reference to the Mekong Delta? Trying to impress people? What does that have to do with this topic? If all you have to hang your hat on is something you did over 40 years ago, there isn't much to you. And if you'd read the posts, you'd know that a lot of the people posting here know what the hell they are talking about. If you are so damn scared of bears, why go where the bears are? Why don't you stay in your citified environment?
...and if one runs toward me, I will spend my 1-5 seconds going for CNS , shoulder and hips...
does that work for you on your 'most dangerous hunts' video game?
Amazing how you Billings Buwanas have so much time to flame on the PC and STILL be out dancing with bears...give the "Welcome to Glacier Park" tourist center 10 minute scary bear speech your day job requires a rest...and get out there and do some hunting.
Bullets for yogi Why the reference to the Mekong Delta? Trying to impress people? What does that have to do with this topic? If all you have to hang your hat on is something you did over 40 years ago, there isn't much to you. And if you'd read the posts, you'd know that a lot of the people posting here know what the hell they are talking about. If you are so damn scared of bears, why go where the bears are? Why don't you stay in your citified environment?
Some of you guys are DENSER than the brush you allegedly hunt in...my reference to "Nam was "situational awareness" or the lack of it I was being charged with by some SCAT-brain who does NOT even know me...but such is the internet and you Butte Buwanas certainly come out of the woodwork.
"I suppose you would have shot the bear" YOU BET...I am not as brave as you (or ..?)
Maybe you should learn bear body language better. You don't have the right to shoot every bear that walks towards you.
WHEN did I say "walks towards you"...I said "charge" ...and YES I know the difference between an animal "walking" towards me and a charge...just different animals than Grizzly / Brown bears...and THAT is what my OP was about....before these DVD NatGeo Glacier Park Buwanas started to flame me to inflate further their full-of-hot-air egos and hijacked the thread.
I started with a legitimate OP and respectful question...until these MORONS with bear scat for brains got a hold of it.
The walk part was a bit of sarcasm. However, I get the impression that if a bear was bluffing, or charging for real. It doesn't matter to you. You're going to shoot it. If the bear is pissed at you. It's probably because you did something wrong. The bear is just being a bear. Your first choice after you screwed up shouldn't be to kill it.
Now, if we're talking about a mountain lion. All bets are off. If it doesn't run away. I'm shooting.
Bullets for yogi Why the reference to the Mekong Delta? Trying to impress people? What does that have to do with this topic? If all you have to hang your hat on is something you did over 40 years ago, there isn't much to you. And if you'd read the posts, you'd know that a lot of the people posting here know what the hell they are talking about. If you are so damn scared of bears, why go where the bears are? Why don't you stay in your citified environment?
"If you are so damn scared of bears, why go where the bears are? " Generally, NO...if charged, YES...and I suppose you would not be? LOL
I typed in "What is the smallest caliber you trust to protect yourself in Grizzly Bear Country"?
The best answer:
My personal favorite defense gun has always been a Beretta Jetfire in .22 short.
I have carried it for many years including while hiking. I never leave without it in my pocket.
Of course the first rule when hiking in the wilderness is to use the "Buddy System." This it means you NEVER hike alone -- you bring a friend, companion, or family member because if something happens there is someone to go get help.
I remember one time while hiking with my girlfriend in northern Alberta out of nowhere came this huge brown bear charging us and was she mad. We must have been near one of her cubs.
Anyway, if I had not had my little Jetfire, I would not be here today. Just one shot to my girlfriend�s knee cap was all it took . . . . . the bear got her and I was able to escape by just walking at a brisk pace.
That's one of the best pistols in my collection...
you tell the 1/2 dozen of my friends and neighbors that have been mauled by grizz, here in Wyoming your line of horseschit and you will be laughed at. Kinda like here, You Big Bad Bear Bwanna-bee. You bowed up pretty quick and showed your azz. And I doubt you have any personal ties to the Mekong Delta, if you did, you wouldn't be spouting off about it, like you are here. I don't know nothing about G-bears as I only see 30-50 a year of the weeny Yellowstone/Mt/Wy varity. But I can spot a Boone and Crockett [bleep] a mile away. Your probably right about "not knowing you" but for what I've seen so far "Big Bad Bear Bwanna-Bee" You are a dipschit! No,you are a arrogant dipschit! The worst kind, come back and spew your knowledge after you have actually seen a bear.
you tell the 1/2 dozen of my friends and neighbors that have been mauled by grizz, here in Wyoming your line of horseschit and you will be laughed at. Kinda like here, You Big Bad Bear Bwanna-bee. You bowed up pretty quick and showed your azz. And I doubt you have any personal ties to the Mekong Delta, if you did, you wouldn't be spouting off about it, like you are here. I don't know nothing about G-bears as I only see 30-50 a year of the weeny Yellowstone/Mt/Wy varity. But I can spot a Boone and Crockett [bleep] a mile away. Your probably right about "not knowing you" but for what I've seen so far "Big Bad Bear Bwanna-Bee" You are a dipschit! No,you are a arrogant dipschit! The worst kind, come back and spew your knowledge after you have actually seen a bear.
I am getting quite used to...and somewhat amused at you A-hole big white hunter types that interact with 10,000 bears a year...and know-it-all. Keep it up.
What are you attempting to accomplish in this "argument" other than looking like a total jackass?
Mission accomplished... Further I would like to modify my prior post when I said I would shoot a charging bear... after further consideration I have decided that I would only shoot if it is Yogi bear.
What are you attempting to accomplish in this "argument" other than looking like a total jackass?
OK...enough...I am really starting to feel bad about this...I let this go too far, and I NEVER intended it to get like this, my evil Gemini twin took over... ...I OWE a bunch of guys(assuming guys...sorry ladies also???) APOLOGIES... I wanted to see how far the moderators on this forum would let something like this go...it denigrated real fast into "flame" broiling this apparent idiot OP and I KNOW this approach for finding a great forum, looks bad, in hindsight, probably was... however, been on some OTHER forums...where, the moderators were like Nazi thread MP's and many threads, although perfectly fine, that did not "fit" the mods ideas or he felt had a bit of attitude...got shut down pronto. Very frustrating, especially when good info was being exchanged.
I am TRULY SORRY for those I have offended, especially got to me after thinking about the "post" from the guy from WY. that had neighbors mauled...not funny anymore...but almost could not stop. Enough, I have accomplished what I set out to do and ONLY thought would take a few posts on a couple of pages to find out I would be warned or suspended...when retaliating to those who thought my OP was stupid or insulting to the fine outdoorsmen on this forum...THIS IS A GREAT FORUM...and the MODS...have shown unbelievable restraint...maybe just figuring they'd let the "boys" take care of it? If the thread provided some entertainment, laughs and stress release for the champions of wildlife, well good.
I fully realize, that out & out mean spirited rudeness & aggression has to be dealt with, it serves no purpose on a site that is an information & experience sharing cyber fellowship of sorts...and I tried to carefully mix a legitimate "problem"...that someone without the "experience" of being "charged" by a Grizz or Brown...and NOTHING, it seems, is hotter than "BEAR" topics...with enough attitude and newbie stupidity to draw some heavy fire...stir up the pot...stir the Campfire embers to a roaring flame...guess it turned into a wildfire. Sorry for the name calling...did not mean for it to come to that either!
I am a outdoorsman & hunter, mostly deer & elk...but have my eye on AK. I also have family in MT. and up 'round Flathead area / Glacier. Will be hunting there as well, and eventually settle there. I would loathe to needlessly shoot any animal I was not purposely hunting...and while the purpose of my OP was to see if this forum was like some of the exceedingly frustrating others, where good discussion, though sometimes heated, gets closed so quick...an unexpected aside, was I DID LEARN HOW to differentiate some bear behavior, i.e. the "bluff" vs. a serious charge...and how effective other means like bear-spray can be, as well as avoidance, which is just good common sense (which i certainly know...)
Again, I apologize, did not intend to offend...especially to Cocadori, Toad & Mule Deer... but know i DID...went too far... ...great site with what seems like a bunch of sincere good guys & outdoorsmen. Became almost like a role to me...clueless A$$hole, reacting to the defenders of the Woods...got carried away with it. Amazing moderator restraint...not closing this after 15 pages?
I fire all my warning shots at the range.... if the bad guys (or bears) don't hear them... that's their problem.
Did you read my explanation & apology on the previous page? This was NOT really about "bluff vs. real charges" or "warning shots vs. plugging 'da bear"... if you are trying to resurrect the "bait" for this thread and be the new "A-hole"...for REAL, you may accomplish that? BTW...I thought my nick-name was antagonistic...pales, compared to "Dogshooter"...
So you agree with dogshitter starting up something that does not need to be started...? There seem to be some here that are permanently hostile? Apology goes only so far.
I gotta question your intentions on this entire thing. Seems kinda off kilter.
Just as I said...nothing more, may have been a bit quirky, hey but don't we all have our individual "quirks"...? It either should END now...or continue if some more productive info on a subject, while interesting, especially since some of you guys DID come up with some real distinctions for the tell tale signs of true vs. false bear charge...but if not, OK...enough. This was nothing more than my(out of forum frustration, other forums...) experiment ...gone amok.
I've only had to shoot one charging bear..... that's because the [bleep] ran-up $2000 worth of bills before I found out he had my credit card. Bear-dentity Theft is a big problem here in Colorado....
So you agree with dogshitter starting up something that does not need to be started...? There seem to be some here that are permanently hostile? Apology goes only so far.
It doesn't matter if I agree with him. If you can't take a little ribbing on this forum. You'll have problems all the time.
It seems to me if someone wanted to see how much "moderator restraint" there was on this forum, it could have been accomplished in a much more straight forward way by just perusing the forums for a short while.
I think this might have been more of an "oh [bleep], better cover my back trail". OP got in too deep, pissed off virtually everyone with the first grade name calling crap, realized he'd crapped in his own teepee and had to hit the eject button. Only way to back out of something like that is to feign some "gotchya" smoke screen. I'm calling serous BULL [bleep] on this one Yogi!
There is a huge difference in fishing Alaska and encountering bears and hunting the northwest and have to fight or flight over a kill.II have seen tons of bears and they most all run/run/run..The ones that don't run...If 'ya snooze you will lose...Been there twice once over a kill and once over my horses...And I had tags.
Bear spray is for bigfoot barbeque's...But that is just my opinion.
I think this might have been more of an "oh [bleep], better cover my back trail". OP got in too deep, pissed off virtually everyone with the first grade name calling crap, realized he'd crapped in his own teepee and had to hit the eject button. Only way to back out of something like that is to feign some "gotchya" smoke screen. I'm calling serous BULL [bleep] on this one Yogi!
Like I am REALLY that worried about THIS or any other "forum"...like one cannot live without forums...and I had an uh-oh moment...PLEASE? NO...it was EXACTLY as I said, be nice if you took me at my word...but in the end, do we really care THAT much...not many here really know each other, yes? Again, I just realized my "test" of sorts, got a bit out of hand...I was saying too many things I did not really mean, as a result, too much silly name calling both ways...offending things important to others, skills developed over many years of experience, of which, I have some too...and otherwise conversation back & forth that would piss me off if I was on the receiving end...NEVER intended to have it get like that from the start...just did? Cannot control what others say or do...just myself, but NO, I did NOT panic and "backtrack" , to be honest, these kinds of things (forums) are not that important to me...if I got banned from every last one, life would be just fine and go on as usual. So no, you are incorrect i ALL your assumptions. But sorry, if I somehow offended you, as well?
So you agree with dogshitter starting up something that does not need to be started...? There seem to be some here that are permanently hostile? Apology goes only so far.
It doesn't matter if I agree with him. If you can't take a little ribbing on this forum. You'll have problems all the time.
You're right...I was just in more serious headspace at the time...really wanted to just stop and did not get it as "ribbing"...OK, copy that.
Nobody else could be so stupid, and then be even more stupid.
Not 'squeezey.
This guy is originally from NYC and now calls Las Vegas home. 16n69 bullets4yogi, did ever get that young show girl neighbor to pose LV style on your M3?
Just a thought..When someone post something the elite(In there minds) do not like....Only a few jump in and show there age/mentality and maturity with post after post calling someone a troll with trivia......
Like wolves,they smell out a post and jump in with there little witty lips going 100 miles an hour putting someone,whomever it is,down.
Well you kind of some up the internet part and if you want to look up the Burgdorf Massacre and you will see my boss's sheep slaughtered by wild wolves....
Tell me who my boss was and the sheepherders name?
How about a Havare Montana massacre or even something like the big Milk River massacre there in Montana?.
Just carry on young pup with the short one liners.
I wasn't THAT worried about you, Cutter was the one herding them, all alone, deep in the mtns., drunk, lonely, in need of a friend to wrap up in a tarp with, humming softly to himself and longing for the feel of wool next to his skin.......
If a Bear charges in the woods and there is none to see it, is it still a charge or was he/she just bluffing?
Don't matter to me especially over a kill...Most bears run in the lower 48 including Grizz without cubs...If they do not run..Beware..Black Bears kill more people than grizzlies...
I almost stepped on a Black while he/she was hibernating in a blow down. He/she picked their head up and then went and laid it back down and went to sleep again.
I wasn't THAT worried about you, Cutter was the one herding them, all alone, deep in the mtns., drunk, lonely, in need of a friend to wrap up in a tarp with, humming softly to himself and longing for the feel of wool next to his skin.......
No need for tarps when you have 14'X14' beard to crawl into.
There was once a sheep herder from Peru Who claimed Fermat's last theorem was true. He climbed up on the roof Shouting, "I've got the proof," But it turned out he hadn't a clue.
Hey Lugcutter come on buddy what do I get for knowing the the rancher that owned those all those sheep killed way back in '03 is Mick Carlson? Mick has quit the sheep business now though from what I understand.
You threw out the question, and I have answered it.
Hey Lugcutter come on buddy what do I get for knowing the the rancher that owned those all those sheep killed way back in '03 is Mick Carlson? Mick has quit the sheep business now though from what I understand.
You threw out the question, and I have answered it.
Excuse me...What was his name and where does he live?
Hey dip schit the question was who ran those sheep. I told you quit trying to change the game dummy. Regardless I'll keep playing along with you.
Mick Carlson, he runs Carlson Livestock Co. with Guy Carlson. He lives in Riggins, and he ain't a fan of bighorn sheep or the Nez Pearce either anymore.
Let me tell you a short story about Riggins Idaho since your not on my ass,this trip.Ever been to the Riggins Rodeo where girls kick mens ass?It is a nasty event not to go to unless your willing to trade punches with someone.....
The owner of 7 Devils brother who owned what is now called the Rodeo club for a while,took on in New meadows Idaho professionals(Boxers) from Montana and other places over the 4th years ago.....My best friend scored a card win(3 rounds) but Swifty(Riggins bar owner) knocked him out cold in less than a minute.
I worked for him for several years before I went on my own..Never ever saw him get beat in maybe 75 fights...
Never been to the rodeo, but have heard it is one hell of a rowdy, drunken time.
I must admit, I googled the owners of the Seven Devils. I haven't been there in quite a while. I wasn't even 21 when I was getting rowdy in that place. My buddy nailed some old local hag while her grown son was waiting for her in the parking lot. Good times there!
R Swift owned it for years and his very/very tough brother G Swift owned the other bar...
G Swift never ever had bouncers at any of the events Riggins has..He did call a up a couple old friends to help out with heavy traffic......Like the Rodeo......
Just ask around there about Swift and you will see and here..Don't mess with them and rightfully so.Even as old as he is...He is a bad ass to this day......I dare anyone to go to Riggins Idaho and call any Swift a puzzy................
Let me know before you go...I wanna watch this one!!!
I am not trying to tell you jack schitt about the Carlsons. You're the dipschit that keeps asking me questions about them.
I don't know much about their timber business, and never claimed I did. Furthermore timber biz has abosolutely zero to do with why I know of them. That said I know Guy and Cindy run GMC Logging. Whether Mick is tied in with that I couldn't tell you anymore.
The funniest part about all of this is watching a boozey old never was like you popping and sizzling at the very thought that I know people that know you.
Winner Winner Chicken dinner First name is Tom, and I owned a few magnums at the time I registered here. more magnum that standards in my safe at that point in time- .257 Wby Mag., .300 Wby Mag, .300 Win Mag, .338 Win Mag., .458 Win Mag, .375 H&H, .41 Mag., .357 Mag, .44 Mag. some in multiple guns even. That and the T.V. show was a favorite as a kid, so I thought it was a decent screen name.
Nobody else could be so stupid, and then be even more stupid.
Not 'squeezey.
This guy is originally from NYC and now calls Las Vegas home. 16n69 bullets4yogi, did ever get that young show girl neighbor to pose LV style on your M3?
I do live in NV...but you are wrong, I am NOT 16n69...although I do know of him from other forums...I am not this "squeezy" either...?
You guys are crazy...this thing I did & OP has taken on a whole new life...a lot of serious ribbing, albeit quite juvenile.
Just a thought..When someone post something the elite(In there minds) do not like....Only a few jump in and show there age/mentality and maturity with post after post calling someone a troll with trivia......
Like wolves,they smell out a post and jump in with there little witty lips going 100 miles an hour putting someone,whomever it is,down.
They show up on every post gone wrong.....
Just a thought.
Seems so...exactly...if my OP was completely serious, without my primary objective as checking out his forum...those who did not like it donned the flame suit and went right after the "perceived" troll.
Nobody else could be so stupid, and then be even more stupid.
Not 'squeezey.
This guy is originally from NYC and now calls Las Vegas home. 16n69 bullets4yogi, did ever get that young show girl neighbor to pose LV style on your M3?
If so, lets see!
I do live in NV...but you are wrong, I am NOT 16n69...although I do know of him from other forums...I am not this "squeezy" either...?
You guys are crazy...this thing I did & OP has taken on a whole new life...a lot of serious ribbing, albeit quite juvenile.
You're not 16n69?
Ummm, ok, my bad. I must have been confused as the two of you share the same writing style. As well as the same photobucket account? ...
If a Bear charges in the woods and there is none to see it, is it still a charge or was he/she just bluffing?
I just read the definitive "tip", by the greatest Bear hunter ( and Big 5) that ever lived... if it is a sow, it is NOT if she is with cubs that determins a "REAL" charge... ...but a serious committed charge comes when the sow is carrying Visa, MasterCard or American Express... ...with a boar, it is not that easy, they are not as commited to "charging" as sows.
It never ceases to amaze me, that a never ending lineup of douchebags talk themselves into having sack enough to espouse their blatant stupidity and ineptitude on the open board. I'm always flattered when it is flaunted my way.
Oh where, oh where has my poor yogi gone? Oh where, oh where can he be. With his balls cut off and his tiny small schlong, oh where, oh where can he be.
Nobody else could be so stupid, and then be even more stupid.
Not 'squeezey.
This guy is originally from NYC and now calls Las Vegas home. 16n69 bullets4yogi, did ever get that young show girl neighbor to pose LV style on your M3?
If so, lets see!
I do live in NV...but you are wrong, I am NOT 16n69...although I do know of him from other forums...I am not this "squeezy" either...?
You guys are crazy...this thing I did & OP has taken on a whole new life...a lot of serious ribbing, albeit quite juvenile.
You're not 16n69?
Ummm, ok, my bad. I must have been confused as the two of you share the same writing style. As well as the same photobucket account? ...
Oh where, oh where has my poor yogi gone? Oh where, oh where can he be. With his balls cut off and his tiny small schlong, oh where, oh where can he be.
Right here [bleep]...love to meet you in a semi-lit alley and see if you have the stones to say that to my face...think not.
Well, the mods on this forum sure are cool...whoever they are...(certainly not fauve or faux or whatever...) , but smoe of the members are raving doochbogs..bags, or ...kinda stupid a little Anyway, I have had my way with you long enough and have grown tired of it... ...I just cannot bear it any longer
Oh where, oh where has my poor yogi gone? Oh where, oh where can he be. With his balls cut off and his tiny small schlong, oh where, oh where can he be.
Right here [bleep]...love to meet you in a semi-lit alley and see if you have the stones to say that to my face...think not.
Why not just a dark alley? Why "semi-lit"? Your fantasy sounds awfully specific. I bet you're a high maintenance gal.
Well, the mods on this forum sure are cool...whoever they are...(certainly not fauve or faux or whatever...) , but smoe of the members are raving doochbogs..bags, or ...kinda stupid a little Anyway, I have had my way with you long enough and have grown tired of it... ...I just cannot bear it any longer
I already know I'm cool you stupid [bleep], I don't need you to tell me.
Well, the mods on this forum sure are cool...whoever they are...(certainly not fauve or faux or whatever...) , but smoe of the members are raving doochbogs..bags, or ...kinda stupid a little Anyway, I have had my way with you long enough and have grown tired of it... ...I just cannot bear it any longer
I already know I'm cool you stupid [bleep], I don't need you to tell me.
Travis
What is it...some of you "boys" in MT got nothing better better than to turn this forum into a 24 hour circle jerk? If you were a "mod" (you're not...obviously, too ignorant to mod anything) then this forum is in TROUBLE.
Well, the mods on this forum sure are cool...whoever they are...(certainly not fauve or faux or whatever...) , but smoe of the members are raving doochbogs..bags, or ...kinda stupid a little Anyway, I have had my way with you long enough and have grown tired of it... ...I just cannot bear it any longer
I already know I'm cool you stupid [bleep], I don't need you to tell me.
Travis
What is it...some of you "boys" in MT got nothing better better than to turn this forum into a 24 hour circle jerk? If you were a "mod" (you're not...obviously, too ignorant to mod anything) then this forum is in TROUBLE.
Well, the mods on this forum sure are cool...whoever they are...(certainly not fauve or faux or whatever...) , but smoe of the members are raving doochbogs..bags, or ...kinda stupid a little Anyway, I have had my way with you long enough and have grown tired of it... ...I just cannot bear it any longer
I already know I'm cool you stupid [bleep], I don't need you to tell me.
Travis
What is it...some of you "boys" in MT got nothing better better than to turn this forum into a 24 hour circle jerk? If you were a "mod" (you're not...obviously, too ignorant to mod anything) then this forum is in TROUBLE.
Moderate this...THREAD CLOSED
Better yet shut-up and go away...
You started this as an intent to stir the fire. You realized the issues the had an o-schit moment. Circled your wagons and cried "sorry please forgive me." Then got busted as an double registered idiot. Now you're still slinging mud cause your feelings are still hurt. Even though you deserve what ya get.
Yogi: Hey Booboo Booboo: What Yogi? Yogi: Ya know Booboo, I know that you, know that I, know that you want puck me up the ass... Booboo: Yes Yogi! Yogi: So when I say go, staaaart [bleep]!
You started this as an intent to stir the fire. You realized the issues the had an o-schit moment. Circled your wagons and cried "sorry please forgive me." Then got busted as an double registered idiot. Now you're still slinging mud cause your feelings are still hurt. Even though you deserve what ya get.
Just quit already. [/quote]
I'm not sorry for anything...I have every right to be here as you shciit slinging idiots do...my feelings are not hurt...double register..yur .talking thru your pie-hole
You started this as an intent to stir the fire. You realized the issues the had an o-schit moment. Circled your wagons and cried "sorry please forgive me." Then got busted as an double registered idiot. Now you're still slinging mud cause your feelings are still hurt. Even though you deserve what ya get.
Just quit already.
Quote
...I OWE a bunch of guys (assuming guys...sorry ladies also???) APOLOGIES...
I am TRULY SORRY
I'm not sorry for anything...I have every right to be here as you shciit slinging idiots do...my feelings are not hurt...double register..yur .talking thru your pie-hole [/quote]
Seriously .. this isn't saying you're sorry... wow... you can't even remember your lies...
Well, the mods on this forum sure are cool...whoever they are...(certainly not fauve or faux or whatever...) , but smoe of the members are raving doochbogs..bags, or ...kinda stupid a little Anyway, I have had my way with you long enough and have grown tired of it... ...I just cannot bear it any longer
I already know I'm cool you stupid [bleep], I don't need you to tell me.
Travis
What is it...some of you "boys" in MT got nothing better better than to turn this forum into a 24 hour circle jerk? If you were a "mod" (you're not...obviously, too ignorant to mod anything) then this forum is in TROUBLE.
Moderate this...THREAD CLOSED
If you give me a [bleep], I'll let you keep posting.
What is it...some of you "boys" in MT got nothing better better than to turn this forum into a 24 hour circle jerk? If you were a "mod" (you're not...obviously, too ignorant to mod anything) then this forum is in TROUBLE. [/quote]
Moderate this...THREAD CLOSED [/quote]
If you give me a [bleep], I'll let you keep posting.
Travis [/quote]
Nah...have one of your [bleep] campmates here do it...if they can find your peanut sized dick...
I'm not sorry for anything...I have every right to be here as you shciit slinging idiots do...my feelings are not hurt...double register..yur .talking thru your pie-hole
You do know your pie hole is your mouth? He's talking out his mouth??
I'm not sorry for anything...I have every right to be here as you shciit slinging idiots do...my feelings are not hurt...double register..yur .talking thru your pie-hole
You do know your pie hole is your mouth? He's talking out his mouth??
...another member PM'd me that Deflave takes it up the rear...?
I am somewhat perplexed, amused & alarmed (mix of those 3) ...at the "accounts" of quite a few who HAVE been "charged" by a Grizz or Brown and have had the luxury of a bit of "time & distance"? What I mean is....they did NOT shoot, but waited to determine if it was the allegedly common "bluff" charge. ARE THEY SERIOUS??? Given the below ... copy of 2 posts from another forum that describe, (as do many others from other forums)...just how fast and how much ground a bear can cover with little time to react, EVEN in the case of decent yardage & open country at the onset of the "charge'....who, repeat WHO, in thier right mind is NOT going to shoot and wait and see if it is a "bluff"...and that so called "wait" or hesitation often brings that bear within precious few yards or feet with NO time left after that in which to react if it turns out not a bluff?
Uh, I don't think so...as for me...as they say int the world of dirtbag "perp" assaults..."I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6"...YES, bring on the Dept. of Wildlife officers...said bear charges me especially with the luxuray of some distance & time...bear dies (hopefully, lol) no benefit of doubt here!
ALSO...If I am in Brown/Grizz country and NOT hunting them, I want as much gun/caliber with cartridges/bullets that offer a combination or balance of the most M.E. - S.D. & MEPLAT in the largest bore I can handle...quick handling & iron sights...say something like a Marlin 1895 SBL in 45-70 loaded with Garrett Hammerhead ammo...if I AM hunting them, then give me similar in a longer reaching flatter shooting hunting round but with similar "most M.E. - S.D. & MEPLAT in the largest bore I can handle".
QOUTE: "#9 Re: 300 win mag vs. grizz.......? Posted 08/06/2008 08:53 AM Yes you can but why? For grizz go for a 340 and a heavy for caliber premium bullet. Grizz are large powerful, heavly muscled, dense tissued, big boned, and very tough. An enraged grizz can cover 100 yards in about 5 seconds with his lungs full of blood and running dead on his feet. If you do not anchor him on the first shot he may go down, he may not. If he does go down when he gets back up he will be running in what ever direction his nose is pointing. If that direction is your direction you are now in deep kimchee my son. It will be at that precise moment in time that you will wish you had a bigger gun in your hand instead of your johnson. If he runs into the thick, now you got to have your marlbourgh moment and then go in and get em. You do not want to do that. This is where things get real intense real fast. It is now time to break out the automatic 12 guage shotguns loaded with magnum slugs with short rifled barrels. Scoped rifles are useless in the thick alder and devils club. Keep in mind if he is not dead he is back tracking you with one thought in mind, to kill you. Cheers & Tighter Groups: Eaglesnester
#12 Re: 300 win mag vs. grizz.......? Posted 08/12/2008 06:53 PM I got charged twice yesterday by a sub-adult who was being,as they say, a "hooligan"! On the first charge the bear covered about 120 yds. in about 6-8 sec. They look like a small car coming at you! On the second charge it ran through some very heavy underbrush and over a lot of deadfall as if nothing was there at all. The first charge he stopped at about 20 yds., then came about 5 yds. closer in 3 bounds. The second charge he stopped about 10 ft.! away. He woofed,snorted and flaired his lips and nostrils. I was wishing I had a 12 gauge with 2 rds. of O buck and a magazine of slugs! All I had was a can of pepper spray and a trekking pole. This is my tenth and most aggressive encounter so far. They are huge, fast, agile creatures." 16n69 Joined: 04/19/12 Posts: 3Send P.M. ModifyRemoveQuote this post
I see you got flamed pretty good for this post, but I happen to agree with you and those you quoted from other threads. If I am hunting something other than bear, or just out hiking, I will always be armed with something suitable for bear country, and if a grizzly even looks at me funny, I will his anatomical tender parts with enough lead to start a pencil company.
Why not just a dark alley? Why "semi-lit"? Your fantasy sounds awfully specific. I bet you're a high maintenance gal.
Travis
Don't you know, "semi-lit" is gay code for candle light. You know, he wants to set up that romantic mood thing with candles and flowers and a big bear skin rug. He just loves our forum members, his sphincter is puckering as we type.
You, myself and yogi don't even bother with holsters. My schit is in hand ...
Travis
Well, yes exactly, nothing wrong ...
This is righteous! We have schit in one hand, and what, Febreze in the other? What you thinking: puff ol' Ursus with a spritz of '"smell-disappear" and hope his nose will tell him you're not there?
You, myself and yogi don't even bother with holsters. My schit is in hand and at the ready at all times.
Travis
Well, yes exactly, nothing wrong with being alert & ready. A Grizzly or Kodiak is the most powerful fearless predator on the planet.
I actually stay "at ready" throughout my entire hike. I don't consider it spending time in the outdoors as much as I consider it a "sweep and clear" of the woods.
This is beginning to sound like a James Bond movie where 007 had several characters, except it's a Terminator movie and we need a new lead (since the old has moved on). Since music entertainers seem to dabble in acting quite readily in acting, I see no reason why gun-writers couldn't readily do the same with aplomb. So I nominate JB (aka Mighty Muley for promotional purposes) as the new "Ahnold" in the next new movie: Redemption: A Safer World. Cast Ingwe as his gun-bristling co-star and people would be running to save themselves, not so much from hot lead as from toppling pines.
And some people will believe it really happened, 'cause they saw it on TV!
Travis can act as himself, and bring up the rear, making the world safer by laying down a barrage of adjectives salty enough to singe all the hair or feathers off any ears within range. Mighty Muley will keep a bar or three of pine tar soap handy for regular oral cleansing.
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