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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,951 Likes: 3 |
I thought I was the only spelling police....  While I do not aspire to be One of the Turdlike People, you and I do have a common interest in correcting illiteracy.
By the way, in case you missed it, Jeremiah was a bullfrog.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,226 Likes: 27 |
bullets4yogi,
Thought I'd make one last post on this subject, even though I put you on "ignore" early. The problems with your original post are:
1) You assume the only way to be safe in bear country is to shoot any bear you see, immediately. At least that's what your post appears to say.
2) Yes, there are ways to tell if a bear is bluff-charging or serious. A bluffing bear bounces up and down on its front legs while coming, with its head and ears up, often "popping" its jaws. The charge may turn serious, but not usually, and a bluff usually comes from farther away. A serious bear comes right toward you, running low, with its ears back--like the one in the video--without the jaw-popping.
3) Apparently you've never encountered a wild grizzly or brown bear. Most of the rest of us have. I encountered my first over 50 years ago, here in Montana, but have also been around a lot of 'em in British Columbia, the Northwest Territories, Wyoming and Alaska, where I've hunted them twice, taking one nice boar. Have spent considerable time up close to both grizzlies and browns. Have used bear spray a couple of times, but only shot when I took my one bear. (Oh, and by the way, yes it's a lot easier to "hit" a bear with spray than a single bullet.)
4) The most experienced brown bear guide I know (he's been at it for over 25 years on the Peninsula) carries bear spray and a handgun when guiding fisherman in Alaska. He considers spray the first line of defense, and occasionally has to use it. I've been within 15 feet of a big sow with him. He had his hand on his revolver, loose in its holster, but had the spray out. When he's guiding bear hunters he carries a rifle, and has used everything from the .30-06 to the .505 Gibbs as backup, though his favorite is a .458 Winchester.
My wife got a great photo of a "charging" bear at about 15 yards when we were fishing with him a couple years ago. Except the bear wasn't charging us. Instead it was after a salmon in the river at our feet. I suppose you would have shot the bear just because.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: May 2011
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And then there was Mule Deer. Who brings some sanity to the discussion.
Well said and spot on.
I will add that the bluff will often begin with some head swinging and growling while facing the other way. The tell tail sign is the hop. If that turns to a low head and a dash... game on ...err..or game over.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,226 Likes: 27 |
Yep, though sows often start bouncing and popping immediately if their cubs are anywhere near.
A lot depends if the cubs are between the mama and you--as in the video. She was COMING--but I also suspect when the handgun went off, she'd hit deeper water, which slowed her down. Might have been different on dry land.
However, I have seen a number of aggressive or just curious animals stopped (or at least paused) by warning shots, including a cow elephant in Botswana. Also saw a charging cow moose turned back by a chainsaw in British Columbia!
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jul 2007
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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That hunting video was great! I've fished among the big Alaskan brown bears a few times. Never had to shoot one, thankfully. Shooting the bear would likely ruin a perfectly good fly fishing trip for salmon! My bear photos aren't as good as those that others have posted: Couple of young brownies near a fishing cabin. ![[Linked Image]](http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k129/GuyMiner/fishing%20photos/IMG_3043.jpg) Surf bear, right at the mouth of the river. Good fishing there, and he knows it! ![[Linked Image]](http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k129/GuyMiner/fishing%20photos/389b20aa.jpg) Bigger than my size 12 boot: ![[Linked Image]](http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k129/GuyMiner/fishing%20photos/IMG_3012.jpg) I decided to try a different fishing spot... Avoiding conflict seemed smarter than pushing in on a bear's spot. ![[Linked Image]](http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k129/GuyMiner/fishing%20photos/93e726cb.jpg) Dad took these while fly fishing for salmon, on Kodiak Island. He didn't have any trouble with the bears either: ![[Linked Image]](http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k129/GuyMiner/hunting%20photos/bushybear.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k129/GuyMiner/hunting%20photos/beachbear02.jpg) Hope I never have to shoot a brownie or grizz in self defense. Would enjoy a hunt for either someday. If I do have to pop one to save my skin, I hope I'm quick enough and accurate enough. Generally pack a .44 mag revolver with hard cast 300 gr bullets and I shoot it reasonably well. I'd rather avoid them if possible though, and that's been possible for quite a few years of hiking and fishing in bear country though. Never have been charged, and hopefully never will be charged. Cocodori has a LOT of outdoor experience in grizzly country. Bears that are NOT afraid of people, and that have killed several people over the past few years. Couple of years ago, hunting mulies in that country, my pard and I found ourselves walking in the footsteps of a mama and cub grizzly. Not a comfortable feeling, armed with sagebrush country deer rifles, a .25-06 and a .270 Win. It was a long three mile hike back to the truck with our boned out deer... Bears are always an interesting subject. Wish I had more experience with them. Then again, maybe not. My only bear, a chocolate from Washington State: [img] http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k129/GuyMiner/hunting%20photos/IMG_3946.jpg[/img] Regards, Guy
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OP
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Posts: 112 |
You along with the other couch Buwana idiots...Cocadori, Toad, and the like...
CANNOT READ...I never SAId or even implied...shooting the bear on sight...read the OP dummy...I was saying how illogical WAITING and risking the seconds YOU have with a charge ...as if you hesitate what little time you had to get in a well placed shot or 2 may me gone...I HAVE been charged by DIFFERENT DG , just not a BEAR with their so called "BLUFF" charges...and I sure as hell will never give one a chance to prove it was just "bluffing"...NOT with a close range charge...
REAd the OP...I was wondering the rational of those who hesitate..(who often are the SAME guys who bloviate about how little time & how lucky you are to get one shot...???)
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,986 Likes: 26 |
Hoss... or Codari or whoever....TFF....
You're doin' 'good'.....
Thanks for the laugh.
Last edited by SamOlson; 04/22/12.
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bullets4yogi,
Thought I'd make one last post on this subject, even though I put you on "ignore" early. The problems with your original post are:
1) You assume the only way to be safe in bear country is to shoot any bear you see, immediately. At least that's what your post appears to say.
2) Yes, there are ways to tell if a bear is bluff-charging or serious. A bluffing bear bounces up and down on its front legs while coming, with its head and ears up, often "popping" its jaws. The charge may turn serious, but not usually, and a bluff usually comes from farther away. A serious bear comes right toward you, running low, with its ears back--like the one in the video--without the jaw-popping.
3) Apparently you've never encountered a wild grizzly or brown bear. Most of the rest of us have. I encountered my first over 50 years ago, here in Montana, but have also been around a lot of 'em in British Columbia, the Northwest Territories, Wyoming and Alaska, where I've hunted them twice, taking one nice boar. Have spent considerable time up close to both grizzlies and browns. Have used bear spray a couple of times, but only shot when I took my one bear. (Oh, and by the way, yes it's a lot easier to "hit" a bear with spray than a single bullet.)
4) The most experienced brown bear guide I know (he's been at it for over 25 years on the Peninsula) carries bear spray and a handgun when guiding fisherman in Alaska. He considers spray the first line of defense, and occasionally has to use it. I've been within 15 feet of a big sow with him. He had his hand on his revolver, loose in its holster, but had the spray out. When he's guiding bear hunters he carries a rifle, and has used everything from the .30-06 to the .505 Gibbs as backup, though his favorite is a .458 Winchester.
My wife got a great photo of a "charging" bear at about 15 yards when we were fishing with him a couple years ago. Except the bear wasn't charging us. Instead it was after a salmon in the river at our feet. I suppose you would have shot the bear just because. " I suppose you would have shot the bear" YOU BET...I am not as brave as you (or ..?) ...hmmm, maybe that charging bear is not going to kill me...hmmm maybe he is just passing thru on the way to a fish or berry patch behind me...???
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,986 Likes: 26
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,986 Likes: 26 |
Perhaps you're spawn of LC, which would make you especially special.
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
I've fired warning shots twice on non-charging, "on- alert" or curious bears. Had no effect on them at all. Perhaps spraying gravel in their face would, but sound had no effect on them at all.
Yep. Noise alone, IME, so very infrequently works, as be useless IMO. What has worked well on many occasions when a more comfortable space has been desired is to give a bear a blast of rock and bullet dust by shooting rocks or gravel - not wood, tundra, dirt, etc- nearby. The question a thread like this needs an answer to in the first place is, "why and how are you getting yourself in a bear-charge situation to begin with?" If, through intent or ignorance you're setting yourself up, then prepare to pay/suffer the consequences.
Bearanoia is way-overblown.
True this.
Last edited by Klikitarik; 04/22/12.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Thankfully, I have never had to fire against a bear. I have been bluff charged by a black bear, that bout soiled my pants.
I have had to shoot at a mountain lion. He was on an open trail, with me, and I had no where to go. He decided to put his ears back, head down, and come forward. I looked thought the scope and couldn't see him. (too close and too high mag) so I peeked over the scope and fired, hit the ground between his front legs. He decided I didn't look tasty, and headed the other way. I wonder if bear spray woulda worked then?...
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I've been charged by other DG too, in the same place you were in. This one nearly jumped right out of my tv at me. ![[Linked Image]](http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll288/she-dragon3/t-rex.jpg)
The original international turd
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Yep, though sows often start bouncing and popping immediately if their cubs are anywhere near.
Agreed. Also saw a charging cow moose turned back by a chainsaw in British Columbia!
That right there always gave me more anxiety than the fuzzy brown stuff. Those things have no fear when agitated! I was never a fan of being invited to a Mexican hat dance as the guest of honor..the hat.
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"I suppose you would have shot the bear"
YOU BET...I am not as brave as you (or ..?)
...hmmm, maybe that charging bear is not going to kill me...hmmm maybe he is just passing thru on the way to a fish or berry patch behind me...???
Wow... see MD and many other here have a thing called situational awareness. Many outdoors-man do. I'm confident that MD has it. Based on your typed words...well....
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Campfire Tracker
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bulletsforyogi
Morons like you have NO FRIKKIN BUSINESS in the outdoors- You are too ignorant to learn from people that know more than you do, you have no respect for the animals, and you have no inkling of your own pathetic limitations. Then you come on a public forum laced with people that have more experience, intelligence, maturity and common sense than you and attempt to impress them and others with your obnoxious behavior.
You need to stay in your own safe bac k yard and fiddle with your dibble.
Fred Royce
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MD, superb posts, as are some of the others. In spite of yogi, this thread is producing some high quality info for those with ears to hear. Below is a photo of a sow grizzly in mid bounce of her front paws. At the same time she was swinging her head high, side to side and bawling to curdle blood. Her two small cubs are closer to the camera, their ears visible over the edge of the road bank. Wide angle camera lens: the sow is much closer than she appears. ![[Linked Image]](http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/lokanagan/wildlife/IMG_4376.jpg) One further comment about bear "charges:" as indicated by previous posts, there are many reasons why a bear might run toward a human that are not attacks. I don't count bears running toward my predator call a charge, though there is a delightful youtube video of a young woman bow hunter who kills a black bear in a "charge" to a predator call. Animals running away from the echo of a shot off a wall of trees or a hillside often run toward the shooter. I watched a black bear chase butterflies toward me. etc.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,226 Likes: 27 |
Okanagan, Nice photo! And good point about the fact that animals running toward you aren't necessarily charging. My wife just posted some photos she took in Alaska of a brown bear "charging" us--you can see them at: www.facebook.com/DeepCreekPress.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 112
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OP
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 112 |
"I suppose you would have shot the bear"
YOU BET...I am not as brave as you (or ..?)
...hmmm, maybe that charging bear is not going to kill me...hmmm maybe he is just passing thru on the way to a fish or berry patch behind me...???
Wow... see MD and many other here have a thing called situational awareness. Many outdoors-man do. I'm confident that MD has it. Based on your typed words...well.... GOOD MORNING MONTANA...greetings to you Billings Buwanas & Great WHITEfish hunters...IT'S A NEW DAY...and Nat Geo just released another Bear DVD for your "cut-n-paste" adventures... Hey...I got your S.A. swinging. yeah...I left my S.A. in 'NAM...try yur' campfire SA in the Mekong Delta... I don't give a rats a$$ what the bears true intentions are...if it is coming at me in ANY way it will be SHOT... ...no "warm & fuzzy" wildlife sensitivity like from you KUMBAYAHOO types...
Last edited by bullets4yogi; 04/23/12.
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bulletsforyogi
Morons like you have NO FRIKKIN BUSINESS in the outdoors- You are too ignorant to learn from people that know more than you do, you have no respect for the animals, and you have no inkling of your own pathetic limitations. Then you come on a public forum laced with people that have more experience, intelligence, maturity and common sense than you and attempt to impress them and others with your obnoxious behavior.
You need to stay in your own safe bac k yard and fiddle with your dibble.
Fred Royce It's arrogant dibbles like you that give outdoorsmen a scat-like scent.
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