Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters My First Wildcat: Your Experienced Critique Requested.

I am finalising the design of my first wildcat, ".416 The Americas Stalker", and need the review and critique of someone with your cartridge design experience.
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<br>The .416 TAS is designed to be capable of taking any game in the Americas at shorter ranges, and yet be able to be used in the mini ( Sako size II & Mark X Mini Mauser ) bolt actions to allow the building of very compact carbines. The .416 TAS parent case is the .240Wby chosen for the belt to headspace on and correct .473" head size, which is cut to 1.87" and necked to .416". I succesfully tested fit and feeding in the Mini Mark X at the NRA convention.
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<br>The resulting case has a capacity with the bullet seated of 42.6 grains of water, and three interior ballistics programs essentially agree in predicting 1740-1820 fps with the 335 grain bullet. The velocity is low but the bullet is big and heavy, and analysis by both Taylor's KO value and Thornily's formula predict capable short range performance on game.
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<br>More information, case drawings, and a cartridge comparison table are at the address below. I apologise for pointing to a second site, but I have not been able to post images here.
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<br>http://beartoothbullets.com/cgi-bin/shoot/ikonboard.cgi?s=3cdd7d4d3f37ffff;act=ST;f=14;t=85
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<br>Fireplug

Fireplug,
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<br>On this board, you must spell out the complete word "image" surrounded by the "[]" brackets, and of course a "/" in the second command.
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<br>Sounds like your haveing a good time with this cartridge. I tried some of Marshalls (Beartooth) 335gr cast bullets in my 416 Taylor, and had poor results.
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<br>Talking with Marshall (who is a really great guy, selling a really great product) we came to the conclusion I needed to use a case mouth expanding die before seating his bullets. RCBS sells these in .416, but I've yet to buy one.
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<br>Think I'll wait to see how your rifle shoots them, before I try again.
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<br>Please keep us informed as to your progess.

BW,
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<br>Thanks for the tip on posting and the encouragement on the cartridge, and yes this is a fun new dimension to shooting and reloading.
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<br>Fireplug

Fireplug is that blown out or cut off??
<br>Mike

Don't know what I could possibly add, Fireplug. Looks to me like you've got a tight grip on it with both hands.

Ken Howell,
<br>Thank You, I am glad to here that. I did not want to leave some beginners blunder because I did not ask to have an experienced eye or two take a look
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<br>ready_on_the_right,
<br>The .416 TAS is mostly cut off since the Wby is 2.5" and I needed to be 1.87" maximum, but the case walls are blown out to a staighter taper.
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<br>Fireplug
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Cool I hope you let us know how it goes!
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<br>Mike

Fireplug, for comparison, take a look at this link:
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<br>http://www.teppojutsu.com/prod01.htm
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<br>HTH, Dutch.

Dutch,
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<br>The .458 SOCOM is an interesting round, but my first impressions are that it is too large in diameter for the mini bolt actions. The "www.teppojutsu.com" site and I gather the people around the project are so caught up in the para-millatary and police aspects that I could not garner any reasonable assessment of the round's value for an outdoorman. The two uses are not only different, but so are the points of reference. In their view the .223 and 9mm are the reference points for performance, but in our's the .44 Magnum and .30/06 or .45/70 are the baselines.
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<br>Thanks for the tip. I think I will email Cor-Bon and see what comparisons I can make.
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<br>Fireplug
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Fireplug, agreed. Just thought it might be a useful reference for you. The 458 SOCOM was designed as a special forces type thingy. Suppressable, but also a stopper. Still, 400 or so grains at near 2,000 fps, in a semi, that's got to be a pretty decent medium range large game weapon. The guys that fired these rounds in full auto AR's report that it does "have some recoil".
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<br>Too big for your actions, but the two wildcats parallel each other, that is, both are developed to produce the greatest wallop possible from your chosen actions. I thought it might be useful for you and Marty ten Weeme to compare notes. Tell him Dutch sent you.

Dutch,
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<br>I will e-mail him and see if we can make some comparisons and exchange some ideas.
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<br>I will certainly give them this, if I ever had to use a AR 15 or any of the other similar things normally chambered for .223 for any purpose sporting or otherwise I would hope that it was converted to their round.
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<br>My brother is a black gun & BDU kinda guy and insists on shooting things other than paper and tin cans with his toys. He left me to follow a very dangerous wounded animal in heavy cover once due to these inadequate tools. He placed his shot OK it seemed at resonable range, but the beast was on its' feet in an instant and into the willow thicket along the stream. I followed, while he stood there wondering why his "deadly military weapon" hadn't annihilated his target, and quickly caught up to it still very dangerous and ready for a fight. I finished it with my bigbore with one decisive shot, just as it launched its' vicious attack, but I can not describe my fear as I saw it so close in that heavy brush looming black with that telltale white stripe and menacing raised tail.
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<br>Ya, the story is about a skunk ( bears scare me less ) and only took place on the far side my pond; but it was a dramatic way to say that I have seen the poor results of the paltry .223. 7.62x39, and 9mm milataristic guns too many times on even small critters.
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<br>Sorry for that guys,
<br>Fireplug

One of the guys in our timber-cruising crew (BLM forester's office, Fairbanks, 1959) was "Big John" N, six-foot-ten, 295 pounds, with opinions to scale. Big John ridiculed both my .44 Magnum and especially my .35 Whelen -- claimed repeatedly that all anybody needed, for anything we could hunt or might face anywhere in Alaska, was his .243 Winchester.
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<br>He left the cabin with his .243 one evening, and we soon heard several shots in fast sequence up the mountain. We wondered what Big John had gotten himself into and were about to go see (and to help if needed) when he burst out of the brush, wide-eyed, and ran into the cabin.
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<br>"What've you got up there, John?" I asked as he ran out again, stuffing cartridges into his Winchester.
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<br>"Porcupine."

Hang in there Ken. Some of these ideas are getting to me too but what the heck.
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<br>What about filing cut off .240 Weatherby cartridges with lead and shooting them out of a .470 Capstick?

Don_Martin,
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<br>I am sorry that I have disapointed you with my tack with the little .416 TAS by bucking the two more typical courses for wildcats that you might feel more comfortable with: the ever larger cased smaller caliber 30" barreled 12 pound rifle desisigned for 600 yard shots, or the enormous big bore that is twice as much gun as needed for anything the owner will ever hunt. Never mind that most shooters can not shoot well enough to make use of the 600 yard special and it is unethical to treat game that way if they could. Never mind that the enormous cased big bore scares and hurts most shooters and ends up a seldom fired piece good only for bragging rights. Never mind that both are so heavy and bulky that their owners can not carry them on any tough hunt.
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<br>The .416 TAS on the other hand is being created from the recognition of a few simple facts: Most game is taken within 100 yards. Lighter more compact rifles are easier to carry and quicker handling. Smallish cased but relatively large bored cartridges are effective all out of proportion to their overall size and are moderate in recoil. Niether typical nor flashy, but practical and efficient I believe, right sized rather than "biggie sized".
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<br>I mean to be neither defensive nor preachy, but I think the ever bigger and ever faster cartridge race is detrimental to hunters ethics and causes more wounding of great game animals that deserve our best efforts and hard work to take them close and clean.
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<br>Fireplug
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fireplug,
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<br>Yes big bores perform very well at moderate ranges. I like the .358 Winchester for that reason.
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<br>Is your bullet going to expand at all at the low impact velcoities?
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<br>Back in the 19th century there were a lot of 40 caliber rifles. The 30/30 changed all that.
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<br>Are you going to use black powder or Pyrodex?