Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Accurize the AK

I know I know- loose tolerances increase reliability...

BUT- reliability and accuracy are just engineering problems. I mean what ARE all these MIT dudes doing all day?

The AK magazines are as rugged and as reliable as a cast iron frying pan. They are such an asset that building a whole new rifle around just those mags would be wise. I guess the Jews did that with the Galil,

Is anybody out there trying to retain the basic AK and just make em shoot straighter? Am I out of the loop on recent developements? I make no claims to being an AK expert.

Dixie,

Reference the South African R4.

It's been done.
And well done I might add!

Still sloppy by M16 standards, but MUCH better!

Too bad we can't get one here.
E4E

Why? They are such a piece of offal........

Ak's are no different than AR's... there are good ones and bad ones.... some shoot good, some shoot like crap... There probably isn't a whole lot that can be done to accurize the AK... Aftermarket trigger and better sights... but there are models that are more accurate than others...

I'd shoot my Bulgarian made Arsenal Milled receiver in 7.62 shooting Wolf 154 gr soft points against ANY non bullbarrel AR made.....
I will also shoot my Russian Made VEPR in 308 against ANY overpriced AR10...or M14 ...

EASY pickings for a fatman and his commie guns..... I have owned AR's.. Colt and Bushy... a few buddies have their M14's and AR10'S/ 15'S... Some shoot as good... but NONE will shoot better....

To each there own...


<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hey Foundryrat

lets get together and shoot. I've got 2 light barrel Ars(one a 16inch) that will shoot awful good at 100. And I've 2 M14s that have won many a medal and reset range records.

I won't argue you have accurate versions-- Just that I've seen a bunch of light barrel ARs hold MOA easily. And a bunch of M14s that will do it too. And have yet to see an AK that will, though some SKS will come close.

Bet mine will rewrite your none.

Wink, Jeff

I thought the R4 was a FNFAL clone??? I am all mixed up.

Never won any medals nor set any range records... I just shoot for fun.. don't claim to be an expert but shooting at 100 yards with a well made milled receiver AK.. shoots as good as any AR... PERIOD.. Mine will hold 1 in with Wolf Ammo.... and a 1x3 power cheap assed scope... Now as we all know I could do better with handloads etc... but why bother... So maybe there are AR's that shoot better... I will never know... I do know it shoots better than my previous AR's and my buddies Armalites, DPMS and Bushies.... not to mention the two pieces of crap i carried in the Army in the late 80's... all at a fraction of the price... it goes bang EVERYTIME.... more than said AR's all in all AK wins hands down... of course that is my opinion <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Like I said OFFAL .... hardly... AK is the finest weapon ever made... needs nothing...

Dixie,

The R4 is an AK/Valmet/Galil based hybrid.

The FAL uses the tilt bolt locking mech.

Gas systems are similar but with small but important differences.

Op-Rod VS. piston driven VS direct impingement.

Tilt bolt Vs.rotary bolt.

The R4 in my opinion, is the current high point of refinement of Mr.Kalishnikovs efforts.

But then I am a bit biased.

Hope this helps.
E4E

FR, I could go you the AK is reliable and MOH(human) to decent yardage. But its a stretch to say its more accurate than most ARs. The barrel weight has nothing to do with accuracy. I've shot many groups with many Ars hovering around half inch at 100 and thats with iron sights because I don't use a scope in competition.

I've got a fairly accurate and damn reliable AK too. It wont' hold a candle to my Ars in accuracy. Though I shoot matches at times with it for grins.

As far as reliable, I've never had trouble with either. But I haven't shot worn out 80s M16s much. Other than SAFS at Perry and they've always been 100%. But thats not combat.

Jeff

Never said all AK's are more accurate... Said my AK was .. and is... the gun flat out shoots.. maybe its a fluke......

I do realize most AKs are not as accurate a platform as the AR... but a lot of AK's are built from demilled parts piles... Demill a bunch of wore out M16's, slap the parts together and see what you get....

you have never seen an AR fail to function and all your AR's shoot ... has not been my experience.. nor that of thousands of its former users.... Have a good one... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

FR

I've had fail to fire, IE primers don't go off, or the idiot loading the ammo(me) forgot the powder. But never a failure due to the gun. I've had the guns fail to lock open on the empty mag and then swapped rings real quick.

I probably maintain my match guns better than your average shooter does. It could literally waste thousands of bucks of shooting if one would go down in a major match like the nationals.

I realize lots of folks were unhappy with the AR. And I have never used one in anger. But nowdays even the cheap models and barrels are capable of MOA or better for the most part. Might take reloading, but very capable. I'd wager the money on the AR every time.

I have an Chinese Milled NEW parts AK. Everything tight and brand new. Pre ban. Its worth about 2-4moa depending on ammo. I've also seen the demilled AKS literally have parts fall out after some firing.

Don't get rid of your AK. Its a shooter. If you ever want to sell, offer to me. Ive always wanted a really accurate one. Kinda like finding a mini 14 that shoots well.

Tis a bunch easier to find an accurate AR platform than an AK platform. Dare I mention one Krieger barreled AR that would shoot 5 shot groups at 600 yards of 2 inches give or take on a regular basis in calm conditions. Kinda hard to get that out of any AK I've ever seen.

Enjoy the banter on this subject. Its informative and relaxing. And we now know there is a truly accurate AK out there. Most of my Army and Marine team buddies would be amazed to know that too.

Jeff

Foundyrat: I think it is incredible to suggest a Russian anything will outshoot an AR or M14. While you have esperience shooting your favorite Russian rifle, I do not see ANY data to prove they will outshoot the run of the mill AR or standard M1A. Have you any prood? I own an AR Ultramatch and a Springfield Supermatch M1A and both are capable groups the size of my fist at 600 yards. I don't see any VESP or whatever on the firing line at the National Matches. Regards

E4e-

Thanks for the splainin! It was the R-1 that was the fnfal clone! argggg

found this:

http://www.ak-47.us/gear/Gear_Review_Detail.php?id=281

If someone in the USA was smart they would buy the design and make it here.

Dixie,

The R1 was, and is a refinement of a dadgum good design, and made better.

Just like the R4.

This whole thread is about accuracy vs reliability.

Funny thing is that no one yet has mentioned the variable of the troopie and his training/discipline.

It's my opinion that accuracy comes with discipline, and not the platform.

Reliability comes from sound mechanical standards, and discipline from the end user.

That whole old and worn out Ying/Yang thing.

Given an army of shaved apes, I'd glady issue them the AK.

The thing works.
E4E