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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132 |
Ha!
It's just an internet thing. I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Terry
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,831
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2011
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So the FBI and DEA buy hobbie guns?  Sure. You really think that just because it's a Federal agency it's going to pick the best tool for the job??? Could it be that they bought from the supplier that could provide the number of rifles in the quickest time at the lowest bid?? Heck, my agency bought "hobby guns" as well. And had to replace them enough that they got smart and switched. Learning occurred, but at a cost. Luckily, it was only money.
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,831
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Ha!
It's just an internet thing. I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Terry Trying to say that Bushies or Stags are "just as good as" is the real "internet thing."
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132 |
The military doesn't seem to agree with your last statement.
;^)
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,310 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,310 Likes: 1 |
I owned a RRA gun for a few years. The carrier key was not staked, the upper was heavier than a similar Colt 6920 upper, I was less than impressed so finally I sold it. Remember the Chevy Vega and the Ford Pinto? Yes the old aluminum block Vega's or the even better Ford Pinto would get you to work for 100,000 miles or so but that was about it. God forbid you got rear ended in a Pinto. The Vega went on to become voted worlds worst car for quality and engine problems, but at first it was awarded motor trend magazines highest awards. I am sure that if the internet was around back in the day, FanBoy's would be saying all the good things, but then some mechanic or engineer would tear into the thing and see it was a total POS. This guy is not going to make it on the "most popular" list when the accolades are flowing. You guys go ahead and laugh at me because I am a dyed in the wool pessimist  . I want my equipment to work in "the worst of times", and "the all of times", and "the longest of times". It is a stone cold fact that you will never know when you will need your gun to work. On the other hand, its your money so buy the damn bushmaster and be happy!
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132 |
I own guns on the "fighting" list and guns on the "hobby" list. They all work and work well. The biggest P.O.S. AR-15 I've ever owned would go on most peoples "fighting" list and had most of the desirable things on the famed commando chart. What it lacked was customer support.
Most of the cops in my town use weapons that would be on the "hobby" list and seem to be comfortable with them. Of course they've used the weapons enough to know they're trustworthy and trust that more than what name is stamped on the side.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,169
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,169 |
The DEA guns were spec'd and RR along with Colt won contracts. RR used that as their advertising campaign but they failed to mention that Colt supplied the first batches till RR could get it right...
Building a good gun isn't rocket science or voo doo, the problem is in the mindset that civies don't need nothing but a hobby gun so let's use commercial receiver extensions and loose fitting stocks, half way stake the gas keys (since they were called on not staking them at all), who needs to HPT and MPT bolts and barrels, red loctite is easier than staking the castle nut, a 1/9 twist is good enough everyone shoots 55gr bullets anyway, dremmelled m4 feed ramps after anodizing, etc. etc.
But hey they do have a good warranty, some models shoot well and their biggest claim to fame, the receivers fit tightly together, it doesn't matter if you need a punch to get them apart...
I bought 2 lowers and 2 uppers, a buddy did the same. I had to swap one of his uppers cause I had one that was so tight, I couldn't get them together. RR's advice? Just grind some material off the rear lug. I also at that time used Tango Down grips but RR drilled the grip holes on all 4 lowers at the wrong angle and they wouldn't fit without leaving a gap. RR's advice? Use a different grip.
I do like their 2 stage triggers but I had one that was worse than any stock trigger I've ever had. I now refer to them as Rocky Road cause that was my experience with them.
But hey, keep singing their praises.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,696 Likes: 16
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,696 Likes: 16 |
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,169
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Posts: 10,169 |
And as for LE guns, ever look at the police trade ins? Most were carried alot and used little...
And I've yet to see a police dept that didn't swing for low bid.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Posts: 7,132 |
Our guys buy their own. " Carried a lot and used little " should sum up about any police or civilian AR used for defensive purposes.
Terry
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,310 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,310 Likes: 1 |
The smith and western Sport rifle would be my 650 dollar choice instead of the bushmaster
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,485
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,485 |
The DEA guns were spec'd and RR along with Colt won contracts. RR used that as their advertising campaign but they failed to mention that Colt supplied the first batches till RR could get it right...
Building a good gun isn't rocket science or voo doo, the problem is in the mindset that civies don't need nothing but a hobby gun so let's use commercial receiver extensions and loose fitting stocks, half way stake the gas keys (since they were called on not staking them at all), who needs to HPT and MPT bolts and barrels, red loctite is easier than staking the castle nut, a 1/9 twist is good enough everyone shoots 55gr bullets anyway, dremmelled m4 feed ramps after anodizing, etc. etc.
But hey they do have a good warranty, some models shoot well and their biggest claim to fame, the receivers fit tightly together, it doesn't matter if you need a punch to get them apart...
I bought 2 lowers and 2 uppers, a buddy did the same. I had to swap one of his uppers cause I had one that was so tight, I couldn't get them together. RR's advice? Just grind some material off the rear lug. I also at that time used Tango Down grips but RR drilled the grip holes on all 4 lowers at the wrong angle and they wouldn't fit without leaving a gap. RR's advice? Use a different grip.
I do like their 2 stage triggers but I had one that was worse than any stock trigger I've ever had. I now refer to them as Rocky Road cause that was my experience with them.
But hey, keep singing their praises. Ain't many companies out there that don't have bumps in the road until you get to paying really high dollar for stuff. I have an aversion to that as my labor is cheaper than companies and then regardless of Colt or RRA etc.. I know its done the way I need that particular weapon done. That being said the one weapon I've never seen an issue with on the line other than a firing pin, has been Colt. I"ve owned exactly 2 of those and for competition they weren't even close to being worth what you paid for them. For always running regardless... that they did stand out in.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,169
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,169 |
I know RR ain't a terrible choice and they can be brought up to specs. I was mainly busting DMS's balls cause he's been such a fanboy and misquoted me. It's all in fun though that really has been my experience with RR.
That said, even Colt when they were bankrupt or nearly bankrupt and got bought out by the state of Conneticut, produced some gawdawful crap right down the line. New owners, management and a new direction changed that.
I still stick my own together cause I can't really get everything I want in one package, some get close but close doesn't count when we're after the next best AR out there.
Whatever that may be...
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 26
Campfire Greenhorn
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OP
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 26 |
After days worth of reading & listening to other ar owners opinions, pros & cons , & preferences. I think I'm gonna be buying a ruger mini 14. Probably a tactical version I seen at a local gun shop. Thanks to all that advised me
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,831
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,831 |
The military doesn't seem to agree with your last statement.
;^) I honestly don't know what you're getting at. If you're refering to the Remmy contract, remmeber one thing. They didn't give Remmy a contract based on any weapon Remmy currently has. They got the contract based on their production capabilities. They have now been given the TDP for that weapon. So in essence, Remmy will be producing an entirely new weapon that MUST be built to the TDP which none of their current AR types are. And quality must meet the current standards or Remmy will be buying them back. And don't think for a minute that just cuz Big Army has something that it's the best thing for the job. Some things are great, others complete failures. Some of those failures stick around too. The AR has had better than 40 years of incremental improvements to the TDP as well. On a side note, Remmy's new contract could turn out to be a good thing for us. In time, Remmy may begin to build all their AR types to the TDP instead of just being re-branded Bushies. Then we'll have one more top tier weapon to choose from.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132 |
You seem to know exactly what I was getting at and I'm glad. The simple point of my comment if the rifle does it's job it makes little to no difference who's name is stamped on the receiver. Hobby lists and charts be damned.
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860 |
After days worth of reading & listening to other ar owners opinions, pros & cons , & preferences. I think I'm gonna be buying a ruger mini 14. Probably a tactical version I seen at a local gun shop. Thanks to all that advised me
"I feel like I'm playin' cards with my brother's kids".
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,072
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,072 |
I've been happy with my Bushy 16" Dissipator upper/Oly Arms lower. Had it for 10 years now. It's a 1/9, 16", HBar profile, chrome-lined barrel.
Last time out, Wifey and I were shooting 60gr VMax over W748. She shot a 2" 5-shot group at 200 yards with a Weaver K4 scope, and a Harris bipod.
I also have a Colt AR15A2. I like it too.
The AR15 platform is so modular, I just have realistic expectations, and am pleased when they are exceeded.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132 |
I have a Colt with a different barrel and trigger and it's a fine rifle. I have a S&W that's as reliable as any rifle I've ever owned. I have a few "Frankenstein" rifles that have also served me well. Sabre Defence and RRA are a couple of others I've owned in the past that were great rifles. There's a lot of good stuff out there to pick from.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,169
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,169 |
You seem to know exactly what I was getting at and I'm glad. The simple point of my comment if the rifle does it's job it makes little to no difference who's name is stamped on the receiver. Hobby lists and charts be damned. Names mean nothing, how it's built does.
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