Home Forums Hunting & Shooting BPCR black powder for 30-30, 32 special or 35 remington

Whatever kid.

A HONDA CIVIC!!!!!! HOLY CHIT!!!!! That would like hitting an elk!!!!

Now you know why I have him on ignore. I never want to get that grumpy as an old man. What a jerk.

Thank you, John!

The source I found with the most info on loading the .32 Special with BP on is the Feb 2007 edition of Handloader (#247) where Gil Sengal referenced an original Winchester catalog.
That catalog spoke to the .32 Special being more forgiving with BP and the article mentioned that Winchester offered load data and tools for loading the .32 Special with BP as most handloaders did not understand the difference between volume measuring and weight measuring and would attempt to volume load the new, relatively unknown, smokeless powders the same as with BP and subsequently damage the firearms and/or cause injury.

As to your experiment with the .32 Special and BP, was the report of the shot more of a "boom" than a "crack"?
Did using BP instead of smokeless change the amount (if any) of bullet fouling? Curiosity raises it's head once again.

Ed

Along the same lines ED, I see on different BP forums that people are weighting each load on a scale esecially if they have an electronic scale, yet the BP manuals say by volume only. What gives with that?

When you find a scale that reads out in volumes let me know I'ld like to purchase one.
Even back in 1878 the Sharps catalog stressed the importance of weighing charges and gave conversion tables to convert appothycaries to grains.
The great fake shxt pyrodex confused the dogcrap out of folks, as it was intended to be used on a volume for weight of grains of black powder. IE if you set a powder measure to weigh 70 grs of 2f blackpowder to make the switch to pyrodex you simply used the same measure setting. In the early days of pyrodex Hogdons did include charts to show what grains weight of blackpowder would weigh in pyrodex.
Pre lawyer days at the Lyman/Ideal corporation they made great effort to be sure and tell the owner of the Lyman 55 powder measure that the graduations on the slides was regulated for grains weight of blackpowder...
So in the interm there became alsort of gunwriter experts that didn't know their ass from a hole in the ground but got paid for writing articles plumb full of flat ass wrong info such as measuring bp by volume.....And everybody knows gunwriters are never wrong....

It sure is confusing.

Weight vs volume for BP isn't all that confusing. Find a volume load the gun runs with and weigh it. Do it a couple three or four times and note the variation in weight. At that point you have a reference point for weighed loads as one searches for the Holy Grail with that particular gun AND powder granulation AND brand. Different brands of BP have different levels of energy. As example, it is said that Swiss powder generates about 10% more energy per volume than say, Goex. I don't know that's true or not but guess it is more energetic to some degree than Goex. My guns think so anyway. A 60 grain charge of Swiss 1-1/2 FG by volume weighs in around the mid 60 grain range as I recall. 65 grains by volume puts you over the 70 weighed grain threshold.

Weighing is something that competitors shooting long range routinely do.

OTOH, BP converts only about half of it's volume to energy. That's where all the smoke and fouling come from. Since the relative energy production is low per volume, small variations in charge mass are not as critical as with smokeless powder because pressure variations are not so pronounced.

Don't let your gun smell like Rosie O'Donnell.

Dan if you pour 2f swiss into a little pile on a sheet of paper and then pour a pile of Goex 3f right beside it... You'll notice the two are almost identicle in powder kernel size, same with 1.5 swiss and Goex 2.... That's where all this stuff about swiss being more energetic came from, but when you start comparing equal sized powder the table gets leveled a tad...

So that's only necessary for competition. From what I've read using a volume measure is all one needs if competition isn't on the menu. For my needs I don't intend to weight each and every load. I don't care if the group isn't the tightest on record. Or am I missing something here.

Thanks Ranch. I don't have all the different grades and brands to compare, but what you say rings true. Use Swiss 1.5 in the big bore target iron and Goex 3f in the .45 flint....weighed and volume in that order.

Dude, the flintlock is for hunting mostly but will run about 2" or slightly larger 5 shot groups at 50 yds; offhand. 45 gr by volume works dandy with that application.

If you have a good measure and powder horn you can pour some extremely consitant powder charges. It sort of sets folks back when they weight what their volume measure pours out into a scale.

It took me a little bit to figure out that those European powders were sized "metric" Once I got to treating the 2f like goex 3f things came around pretty good, but I don't like that hard red clay crap fouling Swiss leaves behind. Dang stuff is way over priced and over rated. I like Schuetzen more than Swiss, but KIK has the whole dang bunch beat.

By your own declaration, you are too old, and it's too late to think about growing your own food.

"Grumpy old man" ?

Post a picture of yourself,...you mouthy dickhead.

Double dog DARE ya'

GTC

Marcus Antonius:

And Caesar's spirit, raging for revenge,
With Ate by his side come hot from hell,
Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice
Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war,
That this foul deed shall smell above the earth
With carrion men, groaning for burial.

Julius Caesar Act 3, scene 1, 270�275

KIK, that's the one the Capital Sports has right now. I spelled the workd wrong. The big man at Capital Sports says he's been using that for some time and really likes it.

Well KIK is one I've not tried and when I work my way thru the supply of Swiss I'll give it a run. Never heard anything but good about KIK. The red fouling you refer to with Swiss is a puzzle to me. I've heard the complaint a number of times but have yet to experience such malfeasance. Might be the loads I run are fairly mild? Dunno about that. All my comparative experience is Swiss, Goex and Elephant from some time ago. Swiss wins the race for me in the target guns, hands down. I don't see anything particularly queer about Goex but it does foul a little more than Swiss.

On the consistency of volume charges, they can be consistent, I agree with that. A string of 60 gr.(vol.) charges I threw awhile back had a weight spread of about 1.7 grains for 10 charges. Probably that could be narrowed down a bit with practice, but the method works lacking other alternatives. It was good enough for 3d in the Polecat Porter match last year. I got beat by the Harsh Brothers and that ain't no sin. 20 shots, time rules, 200 yards w/ wind running about 8 o'clock @ a puffy 10-20 mph.

Dan the thing about the red hard fouling in Swiss, I think has to do with our dry climate here. Those that shoot the stuff in the more arid climates use a pretty agressive fouling control to keep the gun running. Those of you that seldom see humidity below 30% get along with the stuff just fine without special hoops to jump thru as far as fouling control.

Humidity is never in short supply down here.

That begs the question of using more lube to help soften the fouling or to help keep it soft. A softer lube in grease-groove bullets or a lube disc (cookie) under a paper-patched bullet perhaps?

I've been trying to pay attention...

This spring, we have no shortage of humidity in East Texas, so I don't think I'll have the issue of hard fouling.

Ed