Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Mule Deer - Heavy Bullet 7-08 Loads?

MD

To date I've been going back and forth between the 120 TTSX and 140 BT for deer, but I want to work up a load for a 7mm-08 for Canada moose and cow elk.

I was thinking along the lines of 160-ish grains as per your writings regarding the 7x57. I already have a full box of 160 Partitions, but my local sports store does have one box of 156 Oryx's in stock as well - do you see any benefit of one over the other on game this size? What would you recommend as far as powders and starting loads with either of these bullets?

Any help you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

I have taken large bull elk with the 154 Hornady and 150 Partitions. Both performed about the same; excellent results. Thy only bullets heavier than that I have used are 168 Sierra match kings and they would be about my last choice for what you are planning.

I would imagine that a big bull elk is similar in tenacity to a bull moose but never having shot a moose, I can only speculate!

Not a moose or cow elk walking the earth that could stop a TTSX, if your gun shoots 'em no need to go lookin for anything else.

I beg your pardon!


A puny little caribou stopped this 120 TSX cold at medium distance, launched with a 7mm-08.



And this 235 TSX hit the far side of a moose's hide and bounced back inside about 4". (.375-350 Rem Mag)



140 A-Frame from 270 after punching off-side scapula, bull moose, and stopping in the shoulder.



These are all moose recovery bullets. L-R: 340 Wtby, 250 Grand Slam, 225 XFB, 30-30 WCF, 170 Core-Lokt, 7mm-08, 160 FailSafe, 340, 200 NBT.


Don't kid yourself, moose are very capable bullet stoppers including whatever copper you want to throw at them.

All that said, if I were using my 7mm-08 again (but it's about time for the Ruger #1 7 Mauser to play), I'd happily go after old alces with a 140 TTSX, 150 or 160 Partition and have no qualms about bringing home meat.

jaycee,

I would happily go hunting either moose or elk with the 160 Partition or 156 Oryx. The Partition normally penetrates a littel deeper, due to a narrower mushroom.

Moose normally aren't as "tenacious" as elk, but they're also normally bigger, so penetration helps. I have seen them stop several different bullets that would zip right through a typical elk--though the bullets always killed the moose.

Any of the powders in the 4350-4831 burning rate range would work fine. I'm kind of partial to H4350, H4831SC and Ramshot Hunter in that performance slot these days, because they're temp-resistant (especially to cold) and all fit well in smaller cases, due to being short-cut or ball powders.

I have heard that about moose but figured that the additional bulk would offset this difference!

I found that Varget was a good powder for my 7-08 for bullets from 110 grains through 168s. I quit loading for it long before the Ramshot powders came out so never tried them in it!

Go kills some moose and let us know how it does!

jaycee: I havent shot any moose, but Ive killed a pile-o-stuff thats elk sized with heavy bullets in a 7x57
160 TSX is now the bullet of choice ( JBs fault...) Prior it was a 175 NPT....

Norma 204 was the best powder for my 7-08, and it's right between 4350 and 4831. It's hard to find but great stuff.

DF

Norma 204 is also VERY similar to Reloder 19, which works as a fine substitute when you can't find 204. RL-19 is also usually cheaper.

Thanks Mule Deer. What should we be looking at for a reasonable velocity, 2600 to 2650-ish? Or would that be a trifle high considering the difference in case volume vs. the 7x57? (Sorry, I'm still trying to wrap my head around 'The Rules')

John,

RL-19 is reportedly less temp resistant than the three you listed. Is that also the case for N-204? There were reports of RL-19 and N-204 being the same powder with the Norma version a bit more consistent, lot to lot, due to higher quality control standards. I was wondering if those higher standards affected temp sensitivity or just lot to lot consistency.

DF

In my experience neither the Norma or Reloder powders are particularly temperature resistant. This doesn't mean they're exceptionally temp-sensistive; instead they're pretty much average.

They were dead weren't they?

I assume you're assuming I don't follow ravens around looking for critters which have wandered off to die? Lotsa folks underestimate moose though, while they overestimate solid coppers (among other things).

How has the expansion been at 7x57 velocities? Or maybe the question should be were you able to recover any of the 160 TSX's?

Just wondering - I've been using Barnes X's in one form or another since they first came out (gosh, gotta be 20+ years now? Time flies), and always found, like a lot of others, that they liked velocity.

The only X I've ever recovered from a lot of animals was a .375 270-grain TSX from a big-bodied (all four quarters on the processor's meat hooks = 515 lbs) 6x6 bull elk this past October. That bullet did punch through both shoulder blades at 217 yards however, and was found right under the hide on the off side. Recovered bullet weighed 269.3 grains on my digital reloading scale for those who may be interested.

But anyways, back to the original subject - I've considered 160 TSX's as well, but am a little leery of their performance at 7-08 velocities?

jaycee- I've only shot a couple of moose with my 7mm-08. One with a 140 XFB which sailed through the air bags and beyond at close range. Another took two 160 FailSafes at a pretty good distance. One sailed through the fluffy stuff (again); the other - pictured above angled a bit through shoulder muscle and collided with the spine - without doing much visible harm, though perhaps delivering the final "knock-out punch". I could never get those 160s to move as fast as I hoped they would in my 20" barreled M7, but they still expanded out yonder as was evidenced even in the exit in the offside hide. I never did collect a 140 XFB out of a good number of caribou I killed with them. Expansion, before they later "improved" them anyway, always seemed evident, and they never failed to quickly anchor animals.

These photos just prove how ineffective the 120 gr. 7mm bullets are. They just killed the moose and did not penetrate it thoroughly to leave a blood trail, as described by Elmer Keith. You need at least a 375 H&H Magnum with 275 gr bullets for moose.

Actually, that one hasn't killed a moose.... yet. I reckon I might be able to hammer the tip closed again, however, and shoot it again. The fact that it was stopped by a caribou was simply an example of why an animal several times larger is obviously going to be an obstacle even for hard bullets. Moose are great targets to use if you're into recycling metal.

I'm finding this thread and the one on elk hunting with the 7x57 very interesting as I woiuld very much like to use my 7x57 this year on a cow elk hunt. What has me worried more than anything else is these elk are very spooky and will run at the drop of a hat. Bullets I an considering are the 150 gr. Nossler partition, 160 gr. Speer grand Slam, the older version with the double core and maybe the 175 gr. Nosler partition. I do have some 140 gr barnes TSX bullets but would they be sufficient? The last elk I shot in that area was taken with a .35 Whelen and the 225 gr. TSX bullet. I know they'll work, but in the 7x57 and that light weight?
Paul B.

My friend's wife dropped the hammer on a 3x3 elk several years a go. One 154gr Hornady spire point from her 7mm-08 did the job.