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Hah! I thought I recognized you! I think I stood next to you at the chicken sacrifices. Vigilguy and I are cult-buddies.
I'm even including photos to prove my cult membership (since we can't do the handshake over the internet):







And I'm also in the K-cult...

Yes, I am defintely in the Hille-cult and even have "hugs" sent to me from Petra via Vigilguy. I am certainly in the McHale cult and have been for years,ever since a demo. by a young staffer at the old FF store in Seattle almost 20 years ago.

Gad, "who knows where the time goes",eh......

This coming winter, my final pack, a CBII, "Full Spectra", side pockets,detachable, large zipped and flapped rear pocket, about 7500 cu. in plus extension, nice deep, dark green and two belts, one for summer and one for wearing deep cold clothing.

The price means NO more rifles for a long time, but, WTH, we only live once, eh!

Vek, you ever hunted the rifle season in Colorado? Key word on the fleece panels is "reversible." It can get crowded on public land and you never know who's back there. Even if we weren't required to wear a blaze orange upper body covering, I'd wear one. The pack covers it up. The panels let you have an orange pack when you need it, and a plain pack when you don't. You want me to draw a picture? Talk about childish comments.


As far as myself an Kutenay go, no, I don't ask for photos and I don't "hate him with a passion."

Jedi5150,

What exactly is the tan-coloured Hille. in your photo, I asked Hille. USA about this twice in the past couple of years and one of the staff told me that only one specific model came in that colour, the "Unna", IIRC.

I have more than enough tents as it is and want to sell 2-3 as I am "old" and will never use all of them, but, I really like that colour for a summer tent as my dark green ones get so bloody hot and I hate hot weather.

I would sell my red Soulo and buy a 1-2 person light Hille if I could get it in that colour.

I like the color as well. They call it "sand" and my understanding is it is only offered in the heavier Kerlon 1800 fabric. They normally don't list it on their website, although a few models will show it in the color "drop down" box.

As of a couple weeks ago Hilleberg's Washington site had sand colored tents in stock in the following models; Nammatj 2, Staika, Saitaris, Keron 3GT and Keron 4GT. The Keron and Saitaris are massive tents, and I'd love to have one, I just can't think of a scenario that would justify them for me. The tent in the photos is the Nammatj 2. At 6lbs, 6oz packed weight, it is the lightest tent in Hilleberg's "extra strength" lineup.

I have a review of it on page two of this thread over on backpackinglight (about 1/2 way down page 2):
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi...tml?forum_thread_id=63979&startat=20


Here's another shot of it while camping a couple days ago near June Lake Loop, eastern Sierras:

Well Smoke, you asked for it.

Rocky Mountain Gucci managed to sell to you, for a great sum of money, a pack in a color that is third only to white and bright royal blue on my personal list of "do not wear while hunting ungulates" colors (and hey, even white has its place). Then, to help dupe those ungulates that are so very keyed into movement and contrast, Gucci managed to sell to you, for even more money, fleece panels to cover up the black. Plus, being reversible, they weigh twice as much as needed. Genius 3x.

So, Gucci clues in after 10+ years of Ford Model T and offers foliage, coyote, and various camo options. Congrats to them, and bummer for all the true believers who bought black early.

I dunno and I really wondered about that whole "black" issue, when I bought my K-packs in 2005. I disliked the fleece panels and removed them and I tended to feel that the black packs on my elderly carcass, wearing my usual greenish hues, would look much like a fire-blackened stump to any game animals foolish enough to be anywhere in my vicinity.

I doubt that colour, per se, makes much difference to wildlife in most situations, I think that the causative factors in triggering alarm instincts are largely the bipedal-fronteyed human form and movement different from that which a "cervid" employs.

I have alarmed elk in very remote northern BC burns, while wearing full camo by a sudden movement, injured leg slipped and I stumbled and the large 6x6 KNEW I was not kosher at an easy 400 yds. So, I think that even a black pack is not bad in typical BC hunting, much of which involves old burns, cutblocks and slide runouts.

I may, finally, get to the Yukon in about six-seven weeks, been held at home due to my wife's severe medical issues and I should test this with different colours of clothing on the local moose up there. This kind of thing is really interesting to me as I am more interested in field ecology studies than in just shooting animals and always have been, which is why I left "ranger staff" in the Forest Service and a good career path to work as a "Lookoutman" so I could be in the bush as much as possible.

Anyone else have an opinion on this?

Actually Vek...Kifaru originally made the black packs so they wouldn't look too much like a 'military' or 'hunting' pack when being used out of hunting season, in and out of airports etc etc etc. Pure utilitarian reasoning from the late 80's early 90's.

Ranger Green, OD or Foliage may have been a better WTG, but it is what it is at this point...Hell..were those colors an option then??..??...sounds kinda foolish, but maybe they were not available? Anyways, I wouldn't, and didn't, get too hung up on it and have had alot of good service out of the black packs with fleece panels since buying my first one in 2002.

Might even upgrade to one of the new fangled Rocky Mountain Gucci packs. They are that good.

I've seen a lot of Elk in the last few weeks, sometimes as close as 40 yards, sometimes at 400. I have not been doing anything to conceal myself, just strolling along, even with dogs by my side, wearing black packs, or foliage packs and whatever for clothing.

Every time it was movement and noise. Once, my camera at 100 yards where I had watched them for 5 minutes. I took a photo, and they were on alert and in to the trees. The other times it was always movement. Once at 40 yards, with my dogs they didn't move until I did. Once I moved, they were gone.

Speaking of Elk, I almost saw a near Elk suicide yesterday. I had no idea how I would explain it to DOW. Basically a lone Elk saw me and my dogs, and decided to scale up the mountain to where it was cliffed out. Above it were cornices. My buddy and I watched, and said, if that Elk doesn't make the cornice, it's either going to fall off the cliff or come running down in front of us. It's final attempt it lunged up and was able to clear a cornice and was gone. The meat eater in me, was thinking how do I explain this to the DOW if the Elk looses it on the cliff. Anyone else ever see something like this ?

Color doesn't matter much to me. I like earth tones because I like earth tones, and I think I look cooler

"Little bit"!?

vek, you really need to get a clue before you go spouting off.

All you're doing is showing your ignorance. And your obvious hard-on for Kifaru. You keep talking about $$, but personally, being able to afford top-quality gear has never been a problem for me. Their gear is pricey, but they're still in business so they must have it priced about right, what with supply and demand and all that.

And the fleece comes with the pack, you don't pay extra. And I've killed a bunch of game with that pack on my back, including an elk at 15 yards last year and 30 yards the year before, both outside the general firearms season so without the panels. Neither animal spooked at the pack, and both were in herds with others nearby. Call it a hunch, but I'm guessing it was because the pack was on my back, and they couldn't see it. Maybe if I backed in on 'em they'd spook.

The fleece does make the pack quieter, especially the top panel when you duck under brush. As far as quiet fabric, it's about as quiet as it gets. And it weighs a few ounces, which I'm willing to carry on a 20-lb. pack.

The fleece also makes the pack more versatile. I carry it without the panels all the time during the off-season when I wouldn't want an orange pack. And during the general firearms season when I wouldn't be without one.

I'll bet you shy away from blue tape on your muzzle too, don't you.

Black instead of foliage (or rust red, or a brighter sagey green, or a dull grey/blue) so that folks wouldn't mistake it for "military"? I'm not buying it. I'd wager that black material was cheap to source.

As for the hunting lessons on minimizing movement, many thanks to all for that. Doggone it - you move and the animal sees you. Whouda thunk. I'd posit that it's substantially easier for an ungulate or human to detect movement of black against earth tone than earth tone against earth tone. But, hey, I'm not a deer, just a guy trying to figure out what possessed Gucci to make their packs in Ford Model T for such a long time.

Okay, so the remedial fleece cost is built into the pack cost. Gotcha. That makes a giant difference in my analysis.

I reckon you're the guy with the fanatical bent here. Consider rereading the first line of your signature. I'm just pointing out things that make no sense to me (and still don't, despite your efforts).

And, to repeat an earlier post of mine, the combined total cost of my four dana packs (two externals and two internals) is less than a new Gucci. Any of the four danas could go and have gone hunting for everything from deer to AK moose. This may have no import to you, but to a newb who's strapped for cash and faced with the prospect of a pack purchase, it's (IMO) vital info.

Note that I've not said one word, anywhere, in any post, about Gucci's other virtues of function and construction. That's because I don't own one and have not used one. To make any such comment or comparison would be foolish. If someone were to offer a suitably sized longhunter for sale for a great price (comparable to a used pristine Dana), then you know what? I'd buy it and give 'er a go. If it carried nice, then off we go to the spray paint aisle. But, I've not seen one go for the ~$100 average unit cost of my four danas. Why would I bother with a used pack that does the same thing for three times the price?

BTW, I have a roll of blue electrical tape set aside specifically for muzzle tape (in honor of Jeff O.) but have yet to implement it. I plan to next time my barrel wrap stash needs a refill.

This isn't theoretical. This is fact. From one of my sale listings where two users complained that I mentioned Mystery Ranch in a Dana Design backpack sale, I wrote:
"Not everyone is aware of the association between Dana Design and Mystery Ranch, and in not knowing, they don't realize they have an option to buy a similar quality backpack for 25-50% less. It isn't uncommon to receive PMs that ask for further information about Danas because the user thought their options were more limited and spending that kind of money on a Mystery Ranch was a difficult trigger to pull. I'm not trying to BS you, either. I put it in the subject header so people notice the listing, but I've also learned that it acts as a key piece of information for some." (now that I'm re-reading this, I realize I should've said 50-75% less)
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...s/6466021/FS_DANA_DESIGN_green_Terraplan

For the sake of clarification, my posts had nothing to do with manufacturer bias or favoritism.

And, more importantly, I have no hate for Kutenay. Nor am I aware of anyone else that hates him.

Heck, like many here, even I've been invited up to B.C. for burgers and beer! And, on more than one occasion I've invited him down to attend rondy's that have been held but a few short hours from where he lives. Unfortunately, there was always a lame excuse that prevented him from joining the real campfire. When challenged to post a pic or two that might serve to back up some of his claims, he's always dodged the issue. That, and the documented frequency and timing of his posts (which at the time basically made it all but impossible for him to ever be on a backpacking trip, much less an extended hunt) merely added to my growing level of skepticism.

Actually, I used to get annoyed with his endless resume regurgitation and uber-authoritative statements regarding all aspects of backcountry gear and guns � especially when amply offered up with no pictorial evidence of actual use, but now they are more of an ongoing source of comic relief than anything.

However, there is an aspect of his lack of evidence that does trouble me. I'm concerned for new backcountry hunters who might be on a budget taking his opinionated gear advice seriously, as if it were actually born of a lot of first-hand experience with said gear in the field...when there is scant little evidence of him ever having done so. Shouldering a heavy load of meat is a bad time to figure out that your pack is painfully uncomfortable, or much more so than it otherwise should be.

I'll give it to him that he sounds like he knows what he's talking about. But, nearly anyone could come across that way if they had enough time, access to a search engine and a modicum of discernment so that their advice rings true to most folks. Sadly, his advice rings hollow for a LOT of people that have frequented this and other forums over the past decade or so and have born witness to no pictorial evidence of him ever owning or ever using what must be a mountain of high-dollar gear and an armory of fine rifles. What's more, as mentioned by others here, no one has ever heard or seen evidence of a single successful hunt!

You�d think a guy with an ego as large as his would want to rectify the situation with some easily documented proof. And yet he doesn�t. Or worse, can�t.

And this is the guy that people look to for advice??? Taking advice from Kutenay is akin to getting sheep hunting gear advice from a slovenly fat bastard car camper wearing a green "guide" jacket at REI. Not asking for evidence and having blind faith in what someone says is why we got stuck with Obama.

This is a guy that people defend??? So what if he bought something from you. Anyone with a credit card can do that. Not that there is ever any bias when defending a repeat customer that widely encourages others to buy their high margin stuff. Yeah, right. Give me a break!

Personally, I think there's infinitely more sense in relying on a whole host of others that take to the field and regularly document their use and reviews of all things backcountry...and then validate them myself.

I think Kute has a lot more to offer as far as advise and experiance than you do Bushcraft. That really does not mean anything or is it a insult but since you are hating on him its something I must say. Maybe he is not "GO HARD" or a badass crossfit critter slayer but that does not mean he is an idiot. Its sad how this has turned into a personal attack. As for posting up pictures? Why, like he said he has nothing to prove. Its amazing a old guy like Kute can even use a computer, let alone post pictures(sorry,hehe). You dont me see me posting about every animal I get or putting up trophy pictures. Some guys do not feel the need to I guess, others do for whatever reasons.

You would loose your bet. This topic was discussed at lenght a looooong time ago on Kifaru's forum. Black was chosen as the do it all color.

Believe what you want though. I do find it interesting how you poo poo everyone for being duped into buying the black packs though....as if they were somehow faulty...its good humour...

Thats the truth right there, have a Dana K2 external myself. If you have a tight budget old Dana's are the way to go. BTW, you are not missing much with the Kifaru's. I do not think you would be impressed when compared to the price difference.

Also, does anyone have a Dana Bomb pack they want to sell? How about you Zeno?

I do not. I'm down to a Terraframe (search the classifieds), and I'm selling that for someone else. I do, however, have an Osprey Kestrel Pro that was entirely made in Dolores, CO around 1998 made of Hardline Spectra grid (500d Cordura with 430 Spectra grid). All black except for the white Spectra grid. 2400c/39L volume. Size Large. It's basically Osprey's equivalent to the Bomb Pack and every bit as durable and hardy. Similar size and has their Vector panel that acts a lot like the Beavertail. The pack looks like new. I bought it for a day pack, and I never use it. The only thing wrong with it is the waterproofing is mostly gone. They never could get the proofing to adhere to the Spectra or Dyneema fibers (they couldn't get that material to take dyes, either. that's why it is white). I think they now have the technology to get a special film to stick to Dyneema, but in 1998, it didn't work very well. $105 (includes shipping and fees).

I'm not going mining on the Gucci site for this info. Enlighten us. Was it a consensus decision? Was it a d. none of the above thing? I have a rough time believing that such an enlightened group (about this I'm mostly not joking) would consciously choose black for a hunting pack color over something closer to earthy and equally politically correct.

I think the original color selection and subsequent selling/offering of remedial window dressing and calling it beneficial is stupid all the way around. I'd go so far as to think the same of the folks who fanatically defend the black coloring and fleece panels.

Note again how I've not criticized the functionality of the pack, nor have I judged the persons who tout the pack as such, as I've not used it. At this time, I can only comment on what I see on the pack, and fleece panels are ridiculous.

I know there are other products that will work for the same hunting tasks for substantially less money. They might even work as well or better, but I can't comment on that. I know they work just fine for me.