Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Canada A registry anyway

I just had an interesting experience and wonder how widespread this practice may be in our nation.

I called a retail gun dealer on the advice of a distributor as I am considering buying a new ultralight rifle offered in .25-06. I asked just how I could pay for and receive the rifle if it ever arrives from the USA, where it is made. I expected that a simple verbal recital of my P.A.L. is all that is needed and my credit card info. of course.

I was shocked to be told, in no uncertain terms that WE WILL REQUIRE a fax of your P.A.L. AND we KEEP it on file as the RCMP come to check our record books which we have from the time the store opened...........

So, it would seem that our national police force and some gun dealers are deliberately defying the specific orders of the ELECTED government of Canada, and continuing a de facto registry........

I will NEVER buy so much as a cleaning patch from this dealer or any other who behaves like this and I think that it is time that the Harper government put a section into Canadas Constitution to protect our RIGHT to keep and bear arms and other private property, as well.

Listening,Steve, if you want my vote, ALL other considerations aside, GET this done and protect we Canadian gun owners, now!

Add another section, stripping the power that beaurocratic police chiefs are abusing. The RCMP (and every other police force) is meant to enforce laws, not to create or interpret them.

They are enforcing the laws, how else are they supposed to track whether or not the shops are making sure they are selling to customers with the proper paperwork? (PAL)

The dealer was obviously into CYA (cover your ass).

C'mon, Jim, you are smarter than that! The current C.F.O.s are almost all R.C.M.P. and they all live the "Mountie culture", i.e.. WE control Canada and WE control the people.

They do NOT have to ...track... ANYTHING, except maybe the leftist terrorists who encourage the radical, terrorists of the pampered and non-productive group in Canada, who deny their "Canadianess" as they are "nations" and yet whine for special "rights"..........

See, provocative comments that do not contribute to saving our rights concerning firearms are easy to make, from various perspectives, not only the one you choose to take.

Unless I'm badly misinformed all that is required is for the seller to see a valid PAL in order to legally make the sale. It is not our job to make things easy for the police.

If the mounties hadn't been so hell bent on making their own laws maybe they would get more public support.

Jim

Yes we were all a little pre-mature in our celebration of the disappearing registry, apparently nothing has disappeared. Harper is becoming less appealing by the minute.

I have said,from the very start, that this is what would happen and while Harper's abolishing the techical LGR IS a move in the RIGHT direction, much more needs to be done.

Harper, is NOT my kind of "conservative", but, when you consider the vile N.D.P., who sold out B.C. citizens by introducing the "Treaty Commission" among other examples and who advocate a flood of foreigners coming into BC/Canada, well, who else can one vote for?

My M.P., Don Davies, N.D.P. has had his heavily-accented office staff LIE to me on the phone and he strongly supports even tighter "gun control" as well as openly calling people like me "immigrants"....he is a little, smarmy, UNION LAWYER and the scum of the Earth....hey, he is a "Dipper" so, what else would he be, eh!

That said. we gunowners. need to FIGHT BACK and if it takes another Harper administration to be victorious, well, even that is better than the alternative!

This is the perpetual problem in Canada who do you vote for? I am quickly following danny williams lead out of Newfoundland, ABC, anybody but the conservatives< Harpers latest attack on the environment through his completey anti-democratic omnibus "budget" bill is just too much. No discussion, no debate just ram it through and don't tolerate anyone who disagrees. As firearms owners we bought into vote for Harper only he will do away with the gun registry. His mild adjustment to the ridiculous gun registry has changed nothing, except I can now buy that little Browning .22 pump off my buddy without registering it, that minor change is not worth the rest of it.

He hires Scottish employees?

The Government is at the moment writing new regulations which will bring the rogue CFOs into line.This was an unexpected development,Toews had every reason to believe that the CFOs would enforce C19 as written and passed not interpet it in their own interests.The CFOs have defied the head of the RCMP and the Minister,Harper has never struck me as the kind of guy that you would want angry with you,and he's angry now.He will not suffer this kind of bureaucratic rebellion.This will be resolved but it won't be a quick fix,it may require a rewrite of part of the Firearms Act.As far as the stores go they are caught in the middle,the CFOs can impose conditions on their business licences,and if they do not maintain the books they can be closed down.If you want to buy a gun without giving up your info buy it in New Brunswick.Their CFO is not requiring that stores keep a record he is following the Governments directive. So far he is the only one. Monashee

Monashee;
I trust that you are doing OK these days?

The coffee is still on for you folks should you ever slide past our way, by the way.

As the issue stands now, I'm in full agreement with you that the CFO's appear to be seeing how far they can push the envelope, but what their motivations might be escapes me at present.

To kutanay's point, there is I suppose a bit of a de facto registry of sorts, but as the in store purchaser can immediately sell the firearm in the parking lot and it can change hands several times that day, it isn't of any real use to anyone in LEO.

Not that the previous system was of any use to any LEO that I spoke to about it either, but then we all knew that didn't we?

While I have my suspicions as to why the CFO's are exerting their power over the gun shops caught in the middle, they are only that really in that I can't prove them.

In another thread here there was a bit of a discussion about how many long guns have been changing hands since the death of the registry and if anything I can say it's gaining momentum down here. Some of us appear to have had way too much pent up "guntraderitis" or something similar?

Well at least politics aren't boring here in Canada as of late anyway, eh?

All the best to you and yours Monashee and again do feel free to drop by if you have time.

Dwayne

Thanks for the information, I bought a Marlin .35 Remington out of a store in New Brusnwick a couple of years ago, may have to have another look at their inventory.

The CFOs are forcing stores to record information as part of a condition of their business license. Stores can't risk being shut down even if they disagree with the rule.

I suspect as Monashee does- That Harper is going to take a personal interest in screwing the CFO's that are defying his government. Should be interesting to see this play out.

Last I heard 2200 federal employees are being released ....

Taxpayers always pay, so if a store is shut down and it ends up in court -guess who pays the store owner for lost revenue? I can't see them actually following through and expecting a good result in the courtroom. I really think it's just saber ratling at a time when the laws are still not well known or studied carefully.

The direction the gun culture would have gone with any other gov't is not where I want to live!
Consider how much you would enjoy rubber band guns before you defect!!

You seem to be missing the point of my thread,which is NOT about partisan political attitudes, it is about the questionable behaviour of both retail gunstores and the various provincial C.F.O.s, who are R.C.M.P. I am concerned with the arbitrary behaviour of senior police officers and do not want this thread encumbered with a lot of bloody nonsense such as your reference to ...defect.... as, we are not discussing Buda-Pest, circa 1956.

The problem here, as some further inquiries with major Vancouver gunshops, has shown me, is the fact that a R.C.M.P. bureaucrat, can decide what the terms of a business licence for a retail store will be and thus impose the fundamentally fascist attitudes of that utterly discredited organization on we Canucks. They do so in direct contravention of the expressed decisions of Parliament and I, for one, am both disgusted and outraged by such actions.

The R.C.M.P. is an organization FAR past it's "stale date" and an embarrassment to Canada and should be disbanded....should have been decades ago. The propaganda spread for decades by this essentially totalitarian group within and outside of "the Dominion", i.e. "Sgt. Preston" and "The Mounties always get their man"....yeah, like Pickton, does not hide what goons like that drunken killer, Corporal Monty Robinson, do to decent citizens.

Like many Canadians, I USED to tend to be proud of and support Canadian police forces, however, this situation, to me, is the "last straw" and we need to "stand tall" and demand our rights!!!!

kutenay;
Hopefully this finds you and yours well this morning and that you folks are seeing the sun for change as we finally are here.

While I agree wholeheartedly with many of your thoughts, at this stage I'd like to stop short of a total disbandment of the RCMP as I'm not sure the all of the provinces and territories are prepared or equipped to set up regional policing bodies as yet.

The retired RCMP folks that I call friends are cautiously optimistic that the new commissioner Bob Paulson will make some much needed change, but everyone seems to agree it will be an uphill battle for him to do so.

Anyway, all that being said I was more than a little disappointed that we here in BC renewed the RCMP contract and didn't make the choice to resurrect some form of our BC Provincial Police.

I believe we could have been one province that does have the wherewithal to set up and run a functional provincial law enforcement body. Alas, the proverbial powers that be didn't agree with my thoughts on the subject.

All the best to you and yours in the upcoming week kutenay and hopefully we'll all get to see the sun a bit more as well.

Regards,
Dwayne

Hey Dwayne:

Couldn't agree more, we lost a real opportunity here to have a provincial police force that met our needs. The RCMP has become a shadow of its former self and needs to be replaced in British Columbia. That might have given them the shake up they need to be disbanded and reforemd nationally.

Nic

Prior to the establishment of the registry, it was a requirement for the retailer to see the document (the FAC at that time) and to record it and the make model and serial number of the firearm and to retain this for one year.
It was not a requirement for gunsmithing shops to do the same for their customer's guns but some local firearms officers tried to make it a requirement. I always refused to record my customer's info for gun repairs etc and while the officers pouted a bit, they did nothing in the end because the law did not support them.
I'm not sure a police force based in the lower mainland would be any better than one based in Ottawa but it might be worth a try. GD