Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Winchester M70 vs Kimber classic

Am contemplating a .300WSM. in either the M70 or Kimber.
The only rifle to look at in town is the Winchester M70.
Never had an opportunity to examine a Kimber in the same caliber. I can order one in though.
Has anyone an informed opinion about the quality difference between the two rifles?
Am I buying a lot more rifle in the Kimber?
May be a better smoother more reliable action and more chance for better accuracy?
May be better quality control at Kimber?
What kind of composite stock do the Kimbers use?
Is it injection molded plastic or wrapped foam core?
Thanks for the input.

hey, I will be the first one to say I loooooove the win mod 70!
I have had 3 of them 300Wm 338Wm & 270. But I now own a Kimber 84m 7mm-08 which is now the best and most effective hunting rifle I have owned to date. Its light - quick to target - very light recoil - very well balance - and extremely high quality for the $$$$. I guess I'm saying that if you like the the Mod 70 you will loooove the kimber. Though I can't speak for the 8400 which id the magnum version. My next gun will be the 84M in .308 so i can hurl 165's at Elk. Though the 7mm-08 would prolly do the job just fine. These rifles seem to really love the Hornady LT magnum round which will give you performance similar to a 300 WM in .308. Just food for thought

I own 2 Kimber 84M's and a M70 FWT push feed. The M70 is smooth, strong, and the stock is probably the best looking factory handle ever created. Not the most accurate rifle I've ever owned but I'm not done with it yet. Both the Kimbers have gorgeous wood, the .308 a bit more figure than the .260. Some of the Kimbers I handled at gunshows had what amounted to plywood on them. I'd be careful buying one sight unseen. The .260 went back to the factory twice due to inletting problems. (when I pay $775.00 for a rifle I want it right!) They fixed it, actually replacing the stock with an equally nice piece of wood. The .308's ejector is too long and won't kick out a live round seated to 2.8" without shearing off the tip of a spire point. I may fix that one myself, hate to let this one out of my hands. It shoots 150's and 165's MOA.
SO.....I guess what I'm saying is be careful of what you order (Kimber), you might not be totally satisfied with what you get. One more thing. The Kimber is SO much lighter and it's a joy to carry and shoot.

I've owned both-out of the box the Kimbers are somewhat better, while the Winchesters have potential if you get some work done on them. IMO the stock on the Kimber Montana is by far the best composite stock on a factory rifle (although I do like McMillens better than the Montana).

Can't pick a loser between either... You'll be happy with whichever you choose.

I had both, I still own the Winchester. The Winchester is more accurate while the Kimber had to be returned and have a new barrel fitted. Kimber customer service was very poor for me. So the Kimber went down the road and I won't buy another.

I have heard similar stories regarding kimber - mainly -actually only on this site. I must have been lucky - or just to ignorant to know any better. But I bought mine off the shelf and was able to inspect it. I have not had even a hint of a problem with it right out of the box. I have the Kimber 84M Classic. The wood on mine is beaaaaautifull. Love the dark and non-glossy finish. It has never failed me in the field or the range mechanically. It has also been an easy cleaner and holds accuracy for many rounds (after the first)

Shrike,

There are quite a bit of differences between the Kimber and Winchester rifles in 300 WSM and in particular in the composite versions.

In general Kimber cares about customer service and Winchester does not but being in Canada you don't want to have to use customer service but to get it right the first time. I have bought three new Kimber Montanas since they first came out less than two years ago. The first is a 243 84M and that rifle is perfect out of the box. It's one of my most prized and used rifles. The second is a 8400 in 270 WSM and that rifle is good in every way but it took a long time to finish load development. In the mean time I hunted with it! It's a far handier and better gun than my newish M70 SS in 7mm WSM. The M70 sits in the "work on it or sell it department today" It's a sloppy rifle as compared to the Kimber and the stocks that Winchester shipped with them were a joke. I shot a new Super Shadow WSM a month ago. If you like rubber checkering then get one!!

On the other hand the stocks on the 8400 Montanas have no checkering and that rifle may jump out of your hands. Read what Allen Day wrote about his Kimber Montana 300 WSM.

My lastest "Montana" is 308. That rifle stands apart from all others. It's special. If your not shooting over 300 yds consider the 84M Montana instead of the magnum.

I have a 8400 in 270 WSM, this rifle has a beautiful wood stock and is well put together. Accuracy is excellent with both factory Win. PP ammo and very impressive with handloaded 140gr Accubonds. I love M70's but have to give the nod to Kimber for overall fit and finish, my M70's are alot sloppier nut I never noticed until I used the Kimber how sloppy they were. I would buy another Kimber in a pinch and it would be a Montana in 308, my hunting partner just bought one and it is a peach of a rifle to carry and hunt with.
bigbull

Shrike, to answer your question regaurding the Montana's stock. The stock is built out of overlaid Kevlar. By far one of the strongest and lightest materials you can get. If I were you, if you wanted a Composite stocked rifle, I would buy the Kimber Montana. If I were to buy a walnut stock rifle I would get a Winchester Featherweight and put a nice peice of European glass on it. The featherweight will be a little less then the Kimber, but with a good scope it should be a great shooter.

Kimber 84 and 8400 have straight stocks with no drop.
They are light, gorgeous wood, really nice matte finish.
The action is like a Model 70, but everthing is slimmer and lighter - perfect for a 7mm-08 in the M84, but maybe too light in a .300 WSM in the 8400.

Win M-70 FWT is gloss blue, more drop to the stock, very tight straight grain wood.

180gr. Partition--75gr. Rl22
Done Deal

Sorry Wrong thread--Not enough java

I shot a montana in .300wsm, man it kicked like hell..

After owning both I'd get the Win. mod. 70...

I have a Kimber 8400 Classic in .300WSM, and I really like it. The wood is very nice (I haven't heard any stories of Kimber "plywood" models; sounds like counterfeit Kimbers to me) and the action is good. The recoil is very manageable with the factory pad.

I'm sure the Winchester Mod. 70 would also be outstanding. So I would imagine it'd come down to personal preference and budget for your decision.

I've been through more than a dozen M-70's and at least a half a dozen Kimbers. In my mind they are two pretty different rifles.
The Kimber is a true lightweight rifle and the Model 70 even in "Featherweight" configurations is a medium weight rifle at best.
Kimber has excellent customer service (Wiktors comments aside), winchester I don't think will be anywere close to as good in customer service.
Kimber Montana's have a superb glass bedded composite stock, Sythetic Winchesters stocks are rubber junk that needs to be replaced immmediately.
Kimber's cost more but by the time you replace the stock on a Winchester and do the other things needed to make it shoot right you may have as much in it as a Kimber.
Light rifles like the Kimber are more difficult to shoot really well, they are capable of suberb accuracy but not every shooter will get all of the performance out of them as is possible. An accurate winchester is easier to shoot accurately.
Both have good triggers but I like the Winchester's better.
So if you want to save money and don't mind doing a little rifle work yourself and prefer a medium weight rifle buy the Winchester. Otherwise buy a Kimber, it is a better made, lighter, nicer rifle off the shelf.................DJ

Thank you everyone for all the helpfull comments regarding both rifles. It is clear to me now where the difference lies.

I hate to discourage you from the 3 wsm but if it were me I would go for either the Kimber 84m classic - or the kimber 84m Montana - both in .308. My justification is that for almost all applications the .308 will perform excellent. I recently read a great article comparing the 300WM to the .308. And while the 300WM is stronger ballistically, it was amazing how little "real world" difference there is between them for most applications. And, in a light mountain type rifle like the M70 fthr wt. or Kimber, recoil will be considerable in 300WSM. I own the kimber 84m classic because I love wood rifles. My next rifle will be the 84m in .308 - I own the 7mm-08 which I absolutley love. But the .308 is calling. I will feel better about using the .308 for Elk. Having shot magnums of all sorts 300WM, 338Wm 7mm RM and 270WSM - I will never go back. My marksmanship has improved substantially as a result. Compare ballistics of the 300WM-180gr. and the .308 shooting Hornady light Magnums in 165 gr. The differnce will probably not be felt by the critter - but will be felt in your shoulder. Case in point - and similar comparison: My brother shoots a mod 70 in 270 wsm (as i did last year) we took our guns out and set a target at 300 yds (pie plate). I was shooting the Hornady Lt Mag 139's(3,000 FPS) and he was shooting Federal vitalshok 130 Gr. noslers. My gun is sighted in at 3" high at 100yds - his is 2.5 high at 100yds. we both held the exact same point of aim (top third of plate) my gun kicks less even though it weighs under 6LBS - his is a mod 70 supershadow. We both hit the target no problem and had it been a deer they wouldnt have known the difference. The 270wsm hits with about 300fps more retained energy with the 130gr. accubond than the 139 gr. SP 7mm-08. Conversely, with regard to the 300Wm vs. the .308 consider this;

1. With the .308 ammo is cheaper and more available
2. with Hornady .308 light Mags 165 grain at 300 yards you get 2,272 FPS with 1890 pounds of retained energy - with the 300WM with a 180 Grain bullet at 300 yards you get 2328 FPS with 2165 pounds of retained energy-thats only 275 pounds more retained energy than the .308. Both animals are dead - you get to carry a lighter rifle that kicks less (prolly making you a better shooter). And, in the case of the Kimber 84m classic (wood) it is so well balanced that I am shooting it more accuratley than any rifle I have ever owned before - go figure. Though it is generally true that heavier rifles are easier to shoot accuratley - there are other variables to consider when hunting vs. target shooting. My shots this year were 1. Standing off-hand at 130-150 yards 2. sitting on a steep hillside with elbows on knees shooting downhill at 275 yards. In both cases rifle balance was much more critical for this shooter than weight. That is where the kimber shines. The rifle flat out comes up and gets on target quickly-and holds. My last gun was weatherby Mark V europa in 7mm weatherby mag - it was very heavy. It was also very long. When you just tromped uphill for an hour and are winded (and excited) it took everything I had to hold that rifle still because of both length and weight - i wouldnt trade the Kimber for that rifle for the world -plus the 7mm-08 just seems inherintly accurate-as is its father the .308.
My point is; In real world hunting scenarios nine times out of ten you will curse the magnum as I have for more than 20 years (dangerous game not withstanding). though many a grizzly has been shot with the .308. You will also curse it at the range or when target practicing. I can shoot a .308 or 7mm-08 all day. This makes you want to practice -practice makes you a better marksman -practice familiarizes you with how your gun performs at all ranges-in all conditions -beautifull stuff. The Kimber also comes standard with a pachmeyer recoil pad that works well. I love the Win model 70 featherweights looks and tradition. But the Kimber is everything good about the mod 70 without the bad. To me, it really isnt a fair comparison -they arent even in the same league. The straight stock, balance, recoil pad, match grade barrel and overall design make the Kimber superior in every way, including value. oh, one other thing: the barrel will last longer in a non-magnum rifle usually. You never said what you will be hunting with the gun - but that is VERY important. The right tool for the job is something that is becoming a lost art in the world of magnumitis. The 7mm08 has served as my cure for magnumitis as will the .308 next year. Good luck!

With reagrd to quiwaumick's post above:
also, though I am a believer in good quality scopes, you can have the best scope in the world and still have a bad shootting rifle. Case in point - the weatherby markV europa I had. What a lemon. I had swarovski on it (costly) and that rifle couldnt shoot better than 3" groups (on a good day). Fliers were frequent and you never knew when it would happen. Finally had the barrel free-floated as one desperate attempt to get it to group - never did. finally, just to stop the bleeding i traded it in for the kimber. I got shafted on the deal too. The Weatherby looked brand new (late 80's model) I paid $750.00 whcih was a darn decent price. the only other thing I could have done was to send it back to weatherby under their guarantee program -but it was too close to hunting season. i needed a shooter now. i traded in a win mod 70 270 WSM supershadow for it -they gave me $300 bucks in trade value so out of pocket on the 7MM Wm was 450. get this: when i took it back to the dealer to trade it in for the kimber - they offered me $300 buck for it. And they were the ones that did all the gunsmithing i had done on it too. I think they knew that gun was a dud when i bought it. Oh well- a lesson learned -some guns need more work than I'm willing to pay for. I will never buy a used gun again, though I have bought some good ones too over the years. You just never really know what your getting - and I'm not a gunsmith, nor do i have the time. sorry to get so off topic but the scope don't make the rifle in every case. I have an inexpensive Leupold VX-1 3x9x40mm on my 7mm-08 and its working great. The swarovski didnt fit so i sold it to my buddy for his 7mm RM. My next scope will be leupold FS series ffixed power - as I pretty much always leave my scope on 4 or 6. $$$ savings by going that way -good glass for the $$