Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles .17 Remington or .17 Remington Fireball "?'s"

looking for thoughts, comments, experiences with either or both.
The good the bad the ugly as well as preferences.

Looking to use it for close up song dogs, Rock Chucks and Gophers.

I have owned and loaded for two 700's and two T/C barrels in .17 Rem.

I do not see any advantage to the Fireball as all the Rem's I've shot, shot very well at reduced speeds.

Once you spend some time with one in the field, it's hard to be without one.


Travis

Agree with Travis.

My main calling rig is a Sako 75 Hunter in .17 Rem. I absolutely love the 17 Rem and never really saw the need for the FB. The FB is dying out somewhat from what I've read.

The new .17 Hornet has piqued my interest though.

Travis,

Still own the 700's?

typically does the stock remmy .17's have a tendency for accuracy?

Any particular pills the prefer? Load data just so I can get a feel for it?

I'm headed this direction cause more often than not working around the ranch there's a 200 yardish opportunity on a varmint... seems a waste to be hammering them with the 6.5-06 or the 260 rem.

I have a close friend that shoots a 17 Fireball in a 700 Remington. The gun is very accurate using 25 gr. Vmax at 3700 fps. I watched him shoot 37 chucks with it early this week, most in the 200 yard range. I was very impressed with the gun.

I saw a 700BDL in 17 Rem for sale yesterday, first one I had
seen in a very long time. Didnt check the price though.

I need a .17 Fireball. I think it's a much better choice than a .17 Hornet. Hornet is very thin brass and takes more care when reloading to keep from crushing. The .17 Fireball can be loaded down to .17 Hornet speeds and loaded up to within a few feet of a .17 Rem. Much more efficiant cartridge than the .17 Rem. Just my personal thoughts and 2 cents worth.

I'm starting to wonder if the .204 Ruger might be a better choice?

Cocadori

The one thing about the 17 fireball, is the lack of quality in the brass. My good friend has culled at least 20% of the Remington brass for the 17 Fireball. There were vertical cracks in the necks along with horizontal cracks on new unfired brass. In fact one of the cases did not have a flash hole. I am not sure the Hornet brass will be able to handle high pressure.

My go to varmint gun is a 204 with the 32 Vmax bullet. I usually limit distances on chucks to 300 yards.

FredWillis,

How recently did he buy his brass? I've had a .17 Fireball for a few years now and have purchased two lots of brass with no problems.

Cocadori,

I have quite a few varmint rifles, including a .17 Fireball and .17 Remington, but if limited to one chambering would probably pick the .204. It has noticeably more zap than either .17, and I can still see the bullet hit through the scope even in a sporter. The .17 Remington seems to jump a little more, even with 20-grain bullets, but that may be due to stock design. The .17 is an original 700 BDL and the .204 a newer 700 with a straight-combed synthetic stock.

I like the .17 Fireball a LOT for gophers and prairie dogs, as the recoil is almost non-existent and yet it still shoots laser-flat to 250-300 yards.

He bought it within the past year. He sent the culls in to Remington and they sent him a check for $60. He purchased 200 rounds and 40 were deficient.

I also have a .204 and I really like it. Good cartridge. But, I don't have a .17 and I "need" one. I think if I'd have got a bunch of brass that bad I'd have taken it back.

I should have explained further.The problems were all with the necks. It looked to me like the copper/zinc mixture might have been screwed up. Part of the cases had crackles (cracks) in the necks. It looked like laminations. Many of the cases split the necks on the first firing and as I reported earlier, some were already split. He bought the initial 200 rounds thru an old Sportsmans Warehouse, now called Discount Sports. In fact, he did take the cases back and they told him to send them to Remington. After Remington received them, they called my friend and said those cases should never have been past thru inspection.

I have owned and loaded for various varmint cartridges.
I have alot of rimfires from all the normal to hm2 and 5mm.

If I had to pick 1 it would be a 17hm2 in rimfire and a 17 Fireball for center fire.
Now, if I was coyote killing alot, like 'flave probably is, I would go 204.

In your question though, sticking to small varmints, I say fireball for
NO recoil, very low noise, does not heat the barrel, 17 Rem. speed, reasonable to reload,
(almost HMR per round price, if you get good brass life) great flying squirrel aerobics, dead flat shooting, most efficient 17 and GREAT brass in all I've bought and reloaded.

My Fireball is the 1st rifle I load in the truck for sage rats.

I'm a big fan of the 17 fireball for p-dogs and smaller varmints. When the primary quarry are coyotes, a 223 AI comes along for the ride.

I've owned a M700 in .17 Rem since high school. It is my absolute go-to coyote rifle. I must caution though, do NOT use the 20 grain V max on coyote. For smaller critters it is fine but it just won't hold together good enough for coyotes, especially at calling ranges.

The 25 grain Hornady HP however, is a coyote splattn' SOB. I've killed coyotes from litterally shooting off the hip range to 500+ yards with that rifle and bullet. Zero problems with chest shots.

FredWillis,

Thanks for the clarification on the .17 Fireball brass.

Just because your friend got a batch that "shouldn't have passed inspection," however, is no reason to condemn the .17 Fireball. As I stated earlier, I've obtained two different batches of new brass since getting my rifle maybe 3-4 years ago, and have also used about 200 rounds of factory ammo. Have had zero brass problems. A friend who has a .17 Fireball has had the same experience, so it appears your friend's batch was indeed an aberration.

I've also had a couple people tell me how terrible .221 Fireball brass is. Same deal. I've purchased 3 different batches over the past few years with zero problems, while they purchased one batch and did.

I sold the BDL, but I still have the LVSF. They both shoot lights out.

The load I just cannot get away from is 25gr Bergers, IMR 4320, and the ol' Remington 7 1/2. Those Bergers shoot great, expand well on on PD's and gophers, and they are great dog killers.


Travis

Travis,

What sort of velocity are you getting from the 25 Bergers?

I've been playing with them and Ramshot Big Game, partly because that powder appears to match the case capacity very well, and partly because it's a temp-stable ball powder that meters oh-so-nicely through the little neck. So far the results are very promising, but haven't finalized a load yet. Probably one more range session will do it.

I'm with DH on those Hornady's. And if I had to choose another pill besides Bergers, it would be the Hornady HP.


Travis

I am a fan of both Berger and Hornady 25gr HP's. The Bergers are generally a little more accurate for me.

Cocadori: I have killed Coyotes, Rock Chucks, Ground Squirrels, Prairie Dogs, Badgers, Jack Rabbits and many other Varmints with my 17 Remington Fireball, as well as with my custom 17 MachIV (the 17 Fireballs twin).
The 17 Remington Fireball is an EXCELLENT all around Varminting cartridge.
I use the wonderful Berger 25 gr. MEF bullets in both my 17 Remington Fireball and my 17 MachIV.
I have as yet to be disappointed with the 17 Remington Fireball - its accurate, lethal and no recoil to obscure your bullets impact points.
I go way back with the 17 MachIV and have 3 Varmint weight Rifles in 17 Remington as well.
The 17 Remington is also a very impressive Varminting round - it will warm your barrel a tad faster than the 17 Fireball - so your contemplation of using it for Gophers gives me reason to lean toward the super efficient 17 Remington Fireball for your useage.
I have a Nikon 6.5x20 variable scope on my Remington 700 VSF in caliber 17 Remington Fireball and it is just sublime on a Ground Squirrel or Prairie Dog Hunt.
It's hard for me to choose one cartridge over the other but for your uses and somewhat longer barrel life I would recommend you go with the 17 Fireball.
Best of luck with whichever you choose and be sure to try the Berger 25 gr. MEF (Varmint) bullets when you get to handloading.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

It's official. I'm going to rebarrel my Model 7 to .17Rem when the 223 tube is toasted. Thanks a lot Travis, you [bleep].

Have had only 1 .17 Rem. and 1 17 HMR...both shot very well, but cleaning those little bores was a hassel for me..I like my rifles clean after a shooting session..this 17 Fireball sounds like somehting I need to investigate..haven't bought a new varmit rifle in several years...but in our area, varmits are declining compared to days gone by..but keeping the mind busy planning and doing is the key to enjoying life...

I've [bleep] more than few.

Let me help fuel your fire:



God bless,
Travis

Same here. That's why I don't clean them.


Travis

Nice looking dog there, for a hairlip.

And flying goph.

We see more fox than yote up by Chester. Is that normal? Or am I to blitzed to tell the difference?

HFFD to ya.

Travis, how many rounds do you run though your .17 Rem. before you DO find it worth cleaning???????

Top of the morning to you buddy! Happy Father's Day and GFY!

I have found where the good fox hunting is, I have a hard time finding dogs and vice versa. Not that I'm complaining...

Same rifle:


What kind of M2 do you have? This one was chambered for that, but the ammo kept exploding. I was scared I'd end up more uglier.



PS-NOT FOR SALE. So don't bother begging.


GFY,
Travis

Word, my friend.
Same story, prettier rifle. ( mine, that is)
When it drew blood out in the field one evening, it was gone.
Was a dandy slaughter machine, but not worth the chance.
Glad I had glasses on. It became a 22lr again.
So I use the salvage and 5 clips.

Re-P.S. nice fire wood for a tipi trip.

I can't count that high...

If I run it on gophers all day, I soak it with Wipe Out and push two patches through. But for regular dog shooting and hunting, it doesn't get cleaned.

I have found that with this rifle and the BDL, their being "dirty" usually made them 1" or 1 1/4" guns as opposed to 1/2" guns. For me, that's just not really relevant. Plus, I'm a lazy SOB.


Travis

I have contemplated one in a bolt gun. But man, this rifle is a killin' sumbitch. Have you tried those Bitteroot Valley 22's? They smack gophers hard.


Travis

No, haven't heard of those, but not surprising. I'm a loser.

I didn't see this question earlier.

I get around 4,000fps, but I believe when I clocked them in the shorter LVSF tube, they averaged 3,900fps. Are you getting good accuracy with the Big Game loads?

Biggest mistake I've ever made with a .17 Rem in the field is holding off hair...


Travis

I'm pretty partial to CCI since alot of friends work there and at times some good volume deals come my way. Mini-mag HP are my preference, as they fly true and do the job.
Stingers hit hard, but aren't that accurate. Not 10/22 fodder either.
HMR deals too.

Must be nice...

Give me some next time you are in my AOR. Thanks chicken [bleep].


Travis

Travis,

Yeah, I'm getting good accuracy with Big Game. It's flirting around 1/2" to 3/4" for 5 shots at 100, but I've only pushed velocity to around 3850 so far, since there isn't any tested data for Big Game. Am going to step on the accelerator a little for the next range session.

By the way, I cleaned the rifle after acquiring it, and since then haven't cleaned it for well over 100 rounds. Shoots in the sub-3/4" range with the initial load I worked up, 43.5 Benchmark and the 20-grain V-Max or Varmageddon. Is this due to the immediate, horrible fouling common to .17 Remingtons?

That sounds pretty promising! 3850 could wreck plenty of schit. Are you planning to work up data for the 30gr pills?

You are obviously doing something wrong. It should be a .14 cal by this point. You should read more, sir.


Travis

deflave,

Since I'm one of the founders of the do-nothing girls... I was wondering where a fellow girlfriend can find a 17 Rem much like the one you've picture above..(previous page possibly) that would be just about what I think I need to accessories with my variety of purses I carry with me when I'm do nothing or fueling my imagination of doing nothing.

All I seem to be able to find is the VLS...blued.

I'm not sure what all that means exactly...

But are you saying you want an LVSF? They can be sort of hard to find lately and Remington is not making them currently.

The one in those pics is wearing a McMillan Compact. It is getting re-tubed soon. I offered up the barrel to ingwe, but if he doesn't need it I can send it to you. I'm sure it has plenty of life left.

Do the VLS's have 26" tubes? It would be interesting to see what kind of speeds you could rob from one of those. Buy.


Travis

Travis, what does that barrel in the Compact mic at the muzzle? Standard sporter?

They used a magnum contour on those. .640ish at the muzzle and they are 21" tubes.

The heavy muzzle end is nice to a degree, but I'm going to make it a #1. But I could see lots of dog hunters being very happy with them as is.


Travis

Oh right on... Interesting. Seems with that small of a hole in the tube they'd go with a thinner tube. Crazy [bleep].

They used the same pattern on all the LVSF's. They made them in .204, .221 Fireball, .223, 22-250, 7-08, .308. Some is lighter than others depending on cartridge choice.


Travis

Mule Deer

Buying Remington products is like buying Tasco scopes. You never know what you are going to get!!! If you do not mind sending product back to the factory, eventually you will get product that works. Just like their composite stocks. Most, except for the high dollar stocks are so flexible that one can not rely on them to shoot out of the box.

There is absolutely no reason that brass as defective as what my friend bought, should ever get past quality control. Seems like it is cheaper for companies like Remington to let the public do the quality control.

SONSABITCHES!!!



Travis

Is that the correct powder charge???


Your thoughts on Benchmark versus Big Game in the 17 Rem?

23.5 grains!

Both are excellent powders, cleaning-burning and temp-resistant. But if I can get Big Game to shoot as well as Benchmark (and that looks like it will happen), then Big Game has the edge due to flowing easier into the little neck. Benchmark has small enough granules to work OK, but once in a while it bridges when dumping charges through a measure.
That's one of the main reasons I use TAC in the .17 Fireball.

Damn. I was just thinking 'That JB is one ballsy SOB!'



Travis

A highly compressed load, for sure!

We need data for 30 grainers and Big Game sir. If you could expend your money on that instead of mine, it would be greatly appreciated.


Travis

Oh, I plan to test the 30's too!

Awesome. Look forward to it.


Travis

Kindler Golds?

A friend is sending me some Kindlers, but I already have some Bergers.

Tried any Nagels yet? I've heard rave reviews of them for accuracy, and he offers three different levels of hollow-point nose closure (handy for saving fur at different velocities).

DD,

Have you used any of the 30's past 300?


Travis

The Kindler 30gr Gold Bullet is a hell of a good bullet in the .17 Rem and the .17-204 wildcat, there is nothing around here that would not shoot with this bullet, big game included.

No, I have not tried them. Going on the reports I've heard from others concerning fur. But the BC looks incredible for long range.

As it is, I'm just getting going with my first 17--I picked up a Rem700 Classic barely used.

I was looking at that. I will have to try them when I get mine retubed. I'm curious to see how they do in a little wind.

The 25's have always done a lot better than the paper ballistics indicate.


Travis

Ive heard from a reliable source that .17 Rem sux and the fireball is skookum...

.204 trumps both.......

ingwe,

I appreciate your thoughts sir, but we are referencing cartridges NOT endorsed by the gay community.

God bless,
Travis

Finally.
A voice of reason.
Thanks, Poobah.

You traitorous son of a bitch.


Travis

The truth will set you free.............

2nd chapter of something.
See you Sunday AM.

Damn, thats gotta suck when the good guys turn against you.......

BTW..nice use of a 'big' word.....

It hurt.

Not really.

I pm'd him a GFY and a promise to send some Natty Ice and he came around.

It's Exodus you dumb schit.


Travis

You consider anything over 2 1/2" "big" .

Just to keep things in context.


Travis

???????? Is that another big word for running out the backdoor when the husband gets home?

P.S. I got a .17 Remington a couple weeks ago in a trade involving a sweet 39a and 1914 pump Salvage.
It's a custom job. Awesome.
H&R handi. No schit. It's gonna go away.

He hasnt taken the bait yet....wait....wait....

He can't pass up something as sweet as a Handi-rifle...

Got him by the boys now............

I got a handi under a bar in San Diego. Cougar had skin like that old lady in Something About Mary.

I pretended to hit the schitter and never went back. Love is tough sometimes.




Travis

How much $?

The Fireball is very tempting too, as a little calling rifle.

I cannot seem to locate a Model Seven CDL in 17 Fireball.

No, no, no, no.

.17 Rem's only.


Travis

You sicken me.



Travis

As usual...this thread has taken a disturbing turn...

DakotaDeer,

What you REALLY need is the .17 Fireball AI. By far the most magical .17 ever, good for everything from white-footed field mice to grizzlies, and you don't even need those silly-ass premium bullets. The magic kills them with a hit anywhere between the nostrils and bunghole.

You skipped without paying?
I should have known better.

P.S. Happy Friday BGG.

Gospel, right there.
Just wish you would have addressed flava 'flave too, as he will believe you.
AI, I'm on it.

I actually got as far as calling Dave Kiff about a 17 fireball AI reamer....but couldn't bring myself to fork over the dough. At some point in the last year or so I turned all pragmatic. Lame.....

But I haven't caught the gay and bought a 204, so it's all good.

Good man.


Travis

OK...you are now the #1 Turd on my Schitt Parade...

Travis...step aside....

Billy,

Nice restraint! (Though you might actually like the .204.)

Still owe you some .41 Magnum data....

Oh, shure...


Buddy up to him now.....

I knew "Draggingdeadspeedgoatinthewaterguy" was cool.



Travis

Wow, that's quite the accolade!

I'm glad you recognize it as such!


And BTW: The Gay of a .204 is easily overcome with a zebra striped stock. It is the antithesis of gay.... ( Which explains why Deflave doesn't have one.......just sayin'.......)