Home Forums Hunting & Shooting BPCR Wads

Well I warned you earlier that there would be rookie questions from me
Since I am just starting out in BPCR I am trying to keep cost down. It seems at this time purchasing wads would be more cost efective than purchasing a wad cutter.
For a limited number of wads, is there any reason I cannot use an empty case to cut wads?

Hair,

Well you could do that, might work a couple of times but I think what you will end up doing is ruining a case or two. Wad punches are actually cheap, a couple of suppliers have them for 15.00 or 20.00 dollars or so. And at your local hardwhare store they have Arbhor punches that you can modify with a file to cut a punch any size you want. Then it's just a matter of finding matereal to punch from. If Veggioe wads are what you are after the local auto parts have gasket matereal that is a veggie wad source. Poly wads are pretty easy to come by as well. This is one instance where you will much better off cutting your own. Get a punch and hammer away.

Gunny

I'll go with GUNNY on that... my guess is that a case is good for about maybe...2 whacks!

OMG! I have sinned...and it was good. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I musta used a magic case for mine...keeping costs down and expedience etc... I KNOW there is a better way, indootably like Gunny described... I put the chamfer to the case mouth, turned it until the bevel reached the outside diameter of the case, then did a light spin on the outside. Notepad backing from the nearest unattended note pad, a piece of plywood for backing, and a really SOLID whack with a hammer. Only thing that slows me down is getting the wads out of the case...turn 'em sideways and pluck 'em out with needle nose plyers or something... I've done over 200 with one case and without resharpening. It is a .44 mag case, and that's short in comparison to more conventional BPCR cases, column stiffness and all that engineering mumbo jumbo...maybe that's why it worked for me? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Watch your thumb and fingers BTW. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> It helps if you tell your wife what you're doing too...first...

Notice, I did say "my guess" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I would 'guess' that if you got 200 notepad 'thumps' outta it, you were doing something rite... only luck I ever had with an empty casing was making 'cake cutters' for getting bullets out of the grease patty <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

While preferring to be lucky to good, I shall upon my next case, use properly sized pipe, a grinder and a dremel, then a good hardening job on the edge afore I beginst to whacketh thine note pad, or whatever. It will also have a piece missing on the side so the little beggars will pop out the side like they're 'sposed to.

Guys,
FWIW, I have made my wad punches from some scrap 1/2" OD aircraft tubing. I chuck the punch into a drill press & cut out wads from the poly lids from coffee cans- very fast & consistent- works fine for newspapper wads also- no banging!
I admit to spending $17 every once & awhile for 1000 pre-cut ones from Dave Gullo <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> ..Dennis
PS. Dan you might tell the good Doc. that I'll give him a season pass for Golf at the Yellow Pine Country Club if he would want to wander a bit north of Cascade next summer!

I have plenty of 10mm and 41mag cases I can use to cut wads also.
Will I notice any difference in a .40 wad versus a .41 ??

Dennis, I'll see if I can lure him over this way...compared to me you fellas are already neighbors, Doc is a sociable type anyway, maybe you could email/pm...he'll chat wit cha...

And how far north of the Cascades? How far north of Yankeetown is that? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

What, you guys have all that extra time on your hands? picking wads out of case, punch, tubing. Wouldn't you think it cheaper in the long run just to buy a wad punch from Cornell,(about 49.95 plus shipping) and have that punch made to fit groove diameter. Just think of all the possibilities and to think no more banging on the work bench, it's endless and only your imagination will limit the possibilities.

Kelley O.

Ya gotta have some evidence to justify shop power tools to the wife...all that bangin' helps.

Kelley,
It must be pretty boring over there to draw you into a discussion on WADS! But, it does help the new guys out a bit- I know I sure appreciated it when I was starting. How did the Pala Buffalo Match go? Ours got weathered out- wished I'd had one of those Star Trek "Transporters"!
Dan,
Yellow Pine is a small (pop. 80), very rural old gold mining town way back in the forrest about 100 miles North of Bosie- I built a small cabin there for less than $20K there in '98- per capita, there are probably more Sharps & Winchesters than anywhere on the planet. As far as I know, it was the last town in the lower 48 to get telephones (5 yrs. ago)- NO CELL PHONEs Thank God! Any way, we built a free 18 hole- par 3 course out in the forrest (sand greens & UN-Fairways). Have a couple of tournaments a year- beer delivered on 4-wheelers or horse back- great fun! Elk wandr through town- moose hang on the out skirts mostly near the river ( EF of the SF of the Salmon- 42" Salmon, Dolly Vardens, Rainbow & Cutthroats).
Of course last week, the power was out for 2 days and it was 9 degrees!
Even though the big old clunky side hammer (derived from percussion), slow action is certainly not as technically modern as other BPCR actions, it is the only action that I can get my most accurate ammunition into- I like them <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />... Dennis

Oh Jeez.....Dennis, I'm jealous! Yankeetown has a population of 640 more or less, nuclear power too. 'Cept when hurricane come by. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Your place sounds like it should be classified Top Secret! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> And I will have a Sharps one of these days, come hell or storm surges. Fallin' blocks are neat, trapdoors... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />, rollin' blocks are kinda...so so on my G.a.S index. Well, back to saving nickles and dimes. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

John Walters keeps his punch dies in pretty fine condition, I've given up on trying to figure out which is the "up" side, or the "Down side" on his veg fiber wads.........they're VERY good, and repeatable............in terms of crisp, and sharp edges.

With a dull, and variable........"whack" factor (inherant in any hammer blow punching operation), you will get discrete variations in toleancing. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Hell, guys, we're regularly discussing obturation, launch cycle presure curves, and brisance <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> (SP?)...primer uniformity, and " scrapyness",in sizing, has got as much , or perhaps more , or at least as much, or maybe is the real secret , or maybe, just maybe...................................$hit, I gotta go get my tinfoil hat, and Wal-Mart meat tenderizing hammer. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

John's idea about an "oversize " (.470" versus .463") wad, for .45 cal, depending on heavily compressed, versus 0 compression, was one of the more articulate itterations of ballistic work I've seen...............in BPCR, from anybody, anywhen.............the oversize wads really wake up this Swiss powder bit, and the standard sizes are perfect for our home grown powder. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

John Walters ?.........He's one hell of a fine character, and a shooter, to boot. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Yes, this is another unabashed "plug".

Support those who support the sport. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

work safe, GTC <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Wads,Wads, wads, were to begin. I believe it's best to cut your own wads using a press mounted wad cutter. Let's say you loading and reach up to the wad drawer and no wads, C.R.S. had set in and you forgot to order wads. With your own handy wad press mounted wad punch not to worry. Want to try a different wad material, wa-la, cut your own. The press mounted wad punch cuts wad very cleanly, no torn edges and that sort of thing. No more hammer elbow from all that banging out wads.

Wads can be dangerous. Oversized wads will grab the case wall causing a seperated case, bad news during a match and worse news to that match grade barrel. Wads is supposed to be the #1 cause of rang chamber.

Payhfinder,

I shot my average at the annual buffalo shoot. Cranial recti set in on Friday and to an extent on Sunday.

Phil Blais won with a 100 out of 120 shot match with 54 centers. Al Sledge was second with a 99, he muffed a shot or would have tied and won, he had more centers of 56.

Friday was almost blue bird conditions. Saturday was almost the same, just had a little more mirage and wind sworling. Sunday was winding, really windy. No rain. Fun match and you should attend sometime. It can be a challenge and will definely try your wind and condition reading skills.

Kelley O.

Now there ya go...see what I don't know? It would have never occurred to me that wad size/uniformity was that critical. I've not noticed any irregularities in shape or quality of cut, but then I haven't magnified them either. Shall have to examine that. I'm pondering the thought of case separation caused by oversized wads Kelly, never heard of that either. Any idea on the mechanics of such an event? I'm stuck in a rock/scissors/paper rut on this one...

Ditto's on care in selecting sizing...............Been running the .470 Walters for a coupla years, with no stretch, or seperation of cases.............But will attribute that to the use of proper ceramic media, and sqeaky clean innards.

As well, I'm flying "low, and slow", in the 1140 fps range, and would not be surprised to see this seperation and stretching bit rear its pointed little head, with hot loads.

Good point Kelley.

Picking up your expended wads, and studying 'em a bit is not a too awful bad srategy, either.

Helps one become even more confused about how these things work.

GTC <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

For a bullet to release from the case there needs to be a couple thousandts of room in the neck area of a chamber for the brass to expand for the bullet to release from the case. If a chamber is tight then bullet release will be limited. That's were an over sized wad comes into play. Under pressure the wad will expand grabbing the case wall and the chamber wall at the same time, so, something has to give and that's the brass case mouth.

An example. I was testing a grooveless bullet in my wifes 40-65 and using a dip lube process. When I chambered a round the lube would be forced down around the case neck area causing a tight chamber. When I fired that round the case neck wouldn't expand causing two things, no bullet release and no room for the wad to expand, thus the case went down range with the bullet. I had fired a couple more rounds, then thought it best to quit. I also tried a wad,grease cookie and wad with that grooveless bullet and had the same problem with case seperation. I did one more test with a paper wad, grease cookie and wad and that worked with success.

Reading old Schutzen magazines I found that those guys said were wads were problamatic with ringing chambers and case seperation with fixed ammo.

Hope the above came out right.

Kelley O.

Kelley,
Just out of curiosity,( I've also been contemplating grooveless bullets), did you ever try firing that bullet with no lube at all using a 10:1 soluable oil wipe at the start & between shots? The reason is that I have used that very shallow GG Lead Zeppelin in a 104 deg.-30 rd. match, just wiping & never fouled out, which brought me to thinking that maybe the lube in the wipe may be enough??
That 3 day Pala match sounds like fun- just north of San Diego isn't it? Got an uncle there that I ought to visit sometime.
Looks like we should get over 40 tomorrow, so maybe I can get out & do some shooting- if I remember how! ..Dennis

Pathfinder,

No I didn't. Al did at the 1000 yard long range in Sacramento just before Raton and he had problems with leading and the bullet shot al over the place.

I tried the water/oil method with no succuss. Using water worked better for me. I used a lube bullet and water at that same match mentioned above, the mono groove bullet. That mono groove bullet is interesting in the fact that if it's not supported well in the case it won't shoot as well as when it's supported. By supported I mean the front driving band has to be in the case. If that bullet is seat were the grease groove is showing the bullet has a tendence to cock in the case.

Kelley O.