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Joined: Dec 2005
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Campfire Regular
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Actually, I never said 2800 was anything except perhaps possible, with some 200-grain bullets. It would depend on exactly the right powder as well, and perhaps even the lot of powder.
Lists 2688 fps for 200's in their manual with Reloder 22. This would be at the SAAMI maximum of 60,000 psi. If we up the pressure to 65,000 (SAAMI acceptable for certain cartridges in that class) the muzzle velocity would be somewhere in the 2750+ range.
Exactly how much velocity would increase isn't as easily computable with a double-based powder as it would be with a single-based powder, where velocity normally increases at the same rate as powder charge, with pressure increasing at twice the rate of velocity. With double-based powders everything isn't as predictable.
While the higher energy of double-based powders would probably be needed to get 2750+ at 65,000 from a 200-grain bullet in the .30-06, no double-based powder is quite as temperature resistant as the single-base Hodgdon Extremes. The Ramshot rifle powders are the most temp-resistant double-based powders I've worked with, but in with the exception of RL-15 the Reloder powders I've tested have been average. While it might be possible to get very close to 2800 with SOME 200-grain bullets in the .30-06 at 65,000 psi, my guess is that pressures would be a pretty touchy at warmer temperatures.
The other question, of course, is why bother? A .300 WSM or .338-06 will easily get 2800 out of 200-grain, without having to lean on it hard. John, with reputable brass, such as Lapua, what would be the long term effects of running an action/barrel at 70,000 psi? We know from loads posted, and "pressure signs", that many seem to be doing this, and over a prolonged period of time. Just wanting your opinion on what the consequences would be, if any. I mention the brass as a factor, only because certain brands seem to take more pressure to develop the signs that most look for. Thanks! R.
You can run, but you'll just die tired.
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312 |
When RL17 is "right", it's good stuff. While it's not a w�nder-powder, it's turned out to be "right" in a couple cartridges for me. I'm a fan. 
The CENTER will hold.
Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two
FÜCK PUTIN!
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I load RL17 under moly'd 208 AMax in a 308 Win.
I've noted my velocities run around 2620 fps at 70F, and drop to around 2580 fps at 30F.
Rule of thumb, about 1 fps per degree of temp change. Shane, What length barrel are you running and are you seatng at 2.80" or longer?
It ain't what you don't know that makes you an idiot...it's what you know for certain, that just ain't so...
Most people don't want to believe the truth~they want the truth to be what they believe.
Stupidity has no average...
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,933
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,933 |
When RL17 is "right", it's good stuff. While it's not a w�nder-powder, it's turned out to be "right" in a couple cartridges for me. I'm a fan. You, shouldn't even be looking at a backlit screen of any kind, even if you're wearing sunglasses. If you want a lifetime of crippling migraines and light sensitivity, keep it up. Ask me how I know! R.
You can run, but you'll just die tired.
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Joined: Dec 2007
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Ed
A person who asks a question is a fool for 5 minutes the person who never asks is a fool forever.
The worst slaves are those that put the chains on themselves.
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,067
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
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I load RL17 under moly'd 208 AMax in a 308 Win.
I've noted my velocities run around 2620 fps at 70F, and drop to around 2580 fps at 30F.
Rule of thumb, about 1 fps per degree of temp change. Shane, What length barrel are you running and are you seatng at 2.80" or longer? 20.5" Rem varmint bbl. 3.00" OAL, Win brass. Barrel has several thousand rounds through it, so the throat has some wear. I'm also shooting a new-ish 26" 308 (Rem varmint) it gets to 2675 fps with one grain less powder than the 20.5" uses. I pushed it to 2725 fps but started to get a little ejector smear and backed off a grain to 2675 fps. RL17 seems to be a great combo in the 308 with 200+ gr bullets.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2004
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I'm lucky enough to have two friends who pressure check different calibers and was kinda surprised at RL-17 with 300 and 350 grain bullets in the 375 H&H since I just acquired one a while back. The bottom line is,it appears to be cartridge/bullet specific.Sometimes it is the best of the best and others it's like a sex rock..Just another [bleep] powder!  To bad there isn't more actual pressure checked data out there for RL-17 so we all can see if it fits our needs. Jayco
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,877
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,877 |
I like H4831SC and usually shoots very well. It gets plenty of velocity, and doesn't lose that velocity in cold weather. Some people swear by R22 but H4831sc was the powder for 200's. It's gonna be a case full of slighty compressed powder but it should fit and (within reason)made about 2900fps/24". R17 is H3450 plus about 50fps. I shot 180's at about 2950 with H4350, 3000 or so now with R17. Same accuracy and from 10-90F I would't be worried about temp sensitivity from either. Colder than that and maybe H4350 would be better. Only reason I switched was because powder was hard to find a couple years ago but local store had a bunch of same lot# '17 on the shelf. Like Brad said, Alliant data was too hot for my rifles, about 2 grains over what worked.
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,611
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2005
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Ol Sam the Mule deer slayer.I still have the picture of that buck you sniped earlier in the year burned in my mind.I bet I've gone back and looked at it a dozen times. Pulled the trigger on any more Bro Sam! powdr
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,877
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,877 |
Powdr, just one buck up here per year unless you're an Indian.
Yeah, real sniper at 130 yards....grin
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,065
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Got an extra 75fps or so out of my 25-06 with RL-17. That being said, RL-22 gave me almost 150fps. This was using 100gr NBT's. I still prefer H4831sc though. It's more consistent as far as velocities and group sizes.
With RL17 and 22, one day it may print a .50 in group, next day it opens to 1.25 in. I don't have this problem with H4831. It always group's .75 or better, unless I screw something up.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379 |
Back to RL 17, I've run it in 3 cartridges - 7mm and .300 SAUM, and the .260 Rem.. I saw very modest gains in velocity in all, but accuracy wasn't as good as H4350 and H4831. And it seemed to run kinda hot in my SAUM's..
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,119
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,119 |
Sam,
I shot my buck (whitetail) this year at 30 yards. Had to crank in some serious elevation on that one!
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 28,277
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 28,277 |
Yeah, I have to do some negative turret turning in the timber on my elk a week or so ago as well...  But man I was ready, 300 WSM, 155 Scenars and a M1 and I practiced all summer to range with it. Even I could of made the shot I did with a 303 Brit.. Dober
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,119
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,119 |
HA!
I was using a 6.5x55 with the 140 Partition (BC .496) at 2700 fps. The scope was a 2-7x Leupold. When sighted-in 2" high at 100 yards and set on 7x, it puts the bullet right at the tip of the bottom post at 400. Old-fashioned, but effective...
Oh, and I had the scope cranked up all the way up 7x, and was still able to see the deer! That's because the field of view is about 5-1/2 feet wide at 30 yards....
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 14,370
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Back to RL 17, I've run it in 3 cartridges - 7mm and .300 SAUM, and the .260 Rem.. I saw very modest gains in velocity in all, but accuracy wasn't as good as H4350 and H4831. And it seemed to run kinda hot in my SAUM's.. I no longer have my notes on the Re17...I tried loading a Roberts with the 80 gr. TTSX & the 100 gr. TSX...during the same range trip I'd also loaded some 80 & 85 gr. Barnes for a .243 & the results for both were the same...wild variations in velocity & sticky feeling bolts before I got anywhere near what should have been max loads. The stuff scared me bad enough that I won't use it. It may have been a bad batch of powder, I don't know...for those interested in the white blocks at the bottom of the bottle, the left side says CE0519 & on the right it has... Aug 2 2009 Shift Z Lot 02709 Mostly full bottle that won't get used again. I just found some of the recorded data I had on the .243 mixed in with some misc. notes... 43 gr. with the 85 gr. TSX resulted in the following velocities 3177, 3462, 3363. The 3462 reading resulted in a bolt that was stiffer than it should have been & was put in the notes...
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,173
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,173 |
"I shot my buck (whitetail) this year at 30 yards. Had to crank in some serious elevation on that one!"
Dang. I am a long range hunter! Took mine at about 75 yards this year... With a .308 Win that's very accurate at 600 yards. Sheesh...
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 973
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 973 |
My experience with RE17 has been good and kinda bad, shot this nice group @300yds with 53.5grs under 180SBTs then .5grs more the group was 4" left and 3" higher, whats up with that? Tried some with my 6mm Rem and 105AMAXs, accuracy so bad I didnt save the targets. Ill be testing some with 154SSTS in my 708 in the spring, fingers crossed. 162 AMAXs didnt care for the powder so much, either. ![[Linked Image]](http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k513/JGorski80/Picture.jpg)
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 973
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 973 |
And the 54grain group was much larger, too, grrrrrr
Last edited by gorskij; 12/04/11.
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 189
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 189 |
Just found this thread so sorry to bring up old wounds. Anyways, I think I have found another cartridge that RL-17 seems works very well in. It's a 338-06AI. Now I'm not claiming to get 150-200 fps gains over other "established" powders but there are definitely gains to be had. 65-90 fps with great accuracy is what I experinced using 210 and 225 gr bullets. If the accuracy hadn't come along with this gain in velocity I would not be writing this. Now, if a person checks a ballistic table, gains like these for most real world hunting situations make very little difference but when you can sneak that much more out of your cartridge and still have outstanding accuracy, who wouldn't take it and run. Cheers.
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