Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Why Some Preferr 6.5 & 708 to/over 270 & Larger Cartridges

Well that's all mighty fine but doesn't change your stated perspective.



Apparantly you have no conscience pertaining to suffering and possible starvation BEFORE a predator can kill them.




Someone wounded this buck by a shot into the front of his right shoulder. It only separated the shoulder and became infected. He could hardly walk, lost all meat on that shoulder and the spine and hip bones were PROTRUDING.

I shot this deer in the re-growth cutover FOR a doe. It was STARVING to death.

I know what can happen beside predators.

This is a sincere suggestion. Get A Clue.

Jeff, your point is a good one - it gives some solace to those who experience Murphy's Law after one does all they can, as in nature, there is life, and death.

I don't think any of us on the fire wish any animal to suffer or go to waste, inc. you and reminding that the protein is not wasted, is a reality. I have in my career of hunting, lost a few animals that were hit, it pained me then but Jeff's points do put things more into perspective.

JW, I would have done the same thing, had I seen an animal that was in need of putting down, I would w/o hesitation. I would think Jeff/260 would also.

I would feel confident had that deer NOT been finished off by a hunter, coyotes and buzzards, etc. would have surely picked that deer clean. The suffering was surely not the intention of the hunter who shot it.

Jeff did say he strives for 1-shot kills and I am confident he is very competent in this regard given his experience, so if/when things go wrong, he is comfortable knowing he did his part, and that's all any ethical sportsman can do.

jwall,

In the wild normal course of nature, deer die all the time and in Nebraska, I'd bet that more deer die of disease, old age, and interaction with motor vehicles than by hunters' bullets, bolts, or arrows. If a deer dies a lingering death from any of those non-hunter related causes, do you feel the same degree of disgust? I don't. A deer is just an wild animal, not a human, not even a domestic animal whose owner has a moral obligation to care for it.

When it comes to my responsibilities toward animals, birds, and fish, I subscribe to the guidance given in Genesis 1:26. I try to live my life guided by GOD's words, so you see, I don't need a clue, as I�ve already been given the answer.

This is my sincere suggestion to you, if you're a Christian, you might consider the text on Matthew 7 as it pertains to the judgment of others.

Jeff

How old are you? Twenty-six going on ten?

I diden't read all theanswers .so I dont know it this was brought up about long range shooting, but you are wrong about the smaller bullets for long range. if you will take note the best long range cartridges are the 50 caliber that alone blows your therory all to hell.

Good Morning Hubert--

Actually I am closer to your point than you might think.

We have guys here that insist that the smaller cals do as well or better than the larger ones DUE to their superior b cs.

My position is I prefer the LARGER and FASTER cals.

Thanks for supporting my position. You are BOMBING their theory. However there is 'some' video support of the smaller cals doing quite well.

Mr. John Burns and the 6.5 Creedmore etc. have proof that they will work.

OTOH - THEY have no proof that the 'larger' ones don't do as well.

Thanks

Jerry

I didn't have to pass judgment on you..

You confessed your cavalier and 'blatant' disregard for suffering etc, etc ,and then justified your attitude with the excuse that other things or critters caused suffering & death. I could go on but I don't think or feel it would do any good.

BTW - I am NOT a tree hugger, a member of PETA or the Humane Society etc.
I am a gun toting, hunting, killing, animal eating American that is very upset by the attitude of MANY in Washing DC and spread across this great nation of ours.

P E T A = People Eating Tasty Animals

jwall,

You've got me all wrong.

I'm a very careful hunter and, because there are an overwhelming number of deer on the ground that I hunt, I can afford to pass on any shot that isn't highly makeable. I think that my "loss" rate is pretty low, considering that there are variables in the field that can't always be accounted for, such as the unseen twig or wire fence that deflects a shot, and the fact that some of the deer were only lost because of the legal nicety of property ownership rights.

Also, if I was "cavalier" in my approach, I probably wouldn't want tighter restrictions on hunters' access to tags, such as a Swedish-like shooting proficiency testing, and I wouldn't volunteer to teach Hunter Education 2 or 3 times per year.

Good luck with your hunting. I'll go on with my rifle building, shooting practice, and attempt to punch at least some of my 2 buck and 10 antlerless tags this year.

Jeff

I think far too often, my OPINION, is that often many folks get so caught up in debates on Ballistic Minutia (myself included) - that we forget there are real people on the keyboards, with real knowledge, experience, feelings, etc.

I also believe that we all share MORE in common - our love of the outdoors, hunting, shooting, fishing, etc. than we differ, or we would not be here.

Even though we may disagree w/a viewpoint or another's experience that did not mirror our own, we should out of professional courtesy respect all on the forum. If they are an .zz then we can ignore them.

I believe Jeff you are a stand up guy and would be glad to hunt along side you any day. Some folks are more sensitive and sharing info via a keyboard lacks an instant 2 way exchange like a live conversation and eye contact i.e. a face to face discussion so it's easy for others to misunderstand exactly our thoughts on matters.

I think JW really believed you don't care about the game you hunt, but I get what you are saying. You do as a sportsman should, all you can under your control, and if Murphy's law strikes, whether it's a slow or fast death, the meat is utilized and it's not a complete waste of an animal. I accept that and do not take that as being unsportsman like in any way.

It's simply putting things in perspective. I like most all here NEVER want an animal to suffer and want the animal to expire asap after I pull the trigger. I am sure you are no different.

I think JW simply needs to re-read your posts.

As to the poster above about 50 caliber being supreme...well there's ALWAYS 'who's the baddest on the block'...and that last all but today.

There are specialty rifle rounds that better the 50BMG.

That said, for most hunting thankfully nothing NEAR approaching a 50 is needed, even for longer shots.

If shot placement and bullet design is equal, then sure, no downside to a larger round.

YET, it's not to say that smaller bores using good bullets and shot placement are not EQUALLY effective. TOO much history of using smaller bores Prove them to be HIGHLY Lethal and Effective in the right hands, using the right bullets, and when shots are selected.

In the end, as many have said, All Rounds work. The difference among one to the next is more about Bullet choice and placement than what's between our ears riding on emotion of biased beliefs.

Paper ballistics/statistics are great for study, yet never killed a thing.

Good bullet. Shootem Good. Any questions, well grab a sharp knife and get to skinning and we will get to them

You guys all have a great day, and enjoy the firearms, optics, and ammo of your choosing, if it's working, smile and be happy. If inclined share you knowledge to those listening, it might help a fellow shooter/hunter.

Wisdom and Maturity.

Gunner

Jeff, I certainly hope so.

May I suggest that 'we' don't say we don't care about any lost game animal?

I regret every ONE of the few I've wounded and couldn't find.

One example was a very nice- W I D E - whitetail, from the blood on both of his sides, I'm certain he died. I searched, went and got a dog and the dog couldn't do anything with his trail.

That was about '75 or -76. I remember DETAILS like it was yesterday.

One thing I have picked up over the years is that I don't look at drop as this many inches at 400 yards. For me it is more along the lines of how much hold over/windage can I manage and still put the bullet where I want it. If you are comfortable with a .270/130gr at 400 yards, I doubt you would be giving up 25 yards with a 7mm-08/140gr. That 25 yards costs probably 25% more powder and recoil, and that's just too far into diminishing returns for me.

But my hunting rifle doesn't even have optics, so running a small case doesn't hamper my range at all =p.

I started out with a .30-06 and based my screen name on that choice. About as famous and successful as any round ever produced, my limited hunting experience has backed up that reputation on deer-size game. Finally going elk hunting for the first time this fall at 28 years old with it.

Thanks mainly to 24hr folks' opinions, I also picked up a .260 this year. No animals with it yet, but I drew Antelope Area 15 so hopefully that along with a deer. It is a lot easier to shoot than the '06 although I've shot good groups with that too. I still have my black bear tag from the spring, no bear yet but I had the .260 with the 120 barnes on a few bear hunts.

I doubt there would be much difference on most animals that I would be able to hunt.

I really liked this thread's title. Where I live there is this fixation with BC, unreasonably so I feel.

And the widely held view seems that because the 264 and 284 cals have a few more high BC bullets, they obviously crap all over anything in 277, 308 or 8mm.

When you make the statement that "I think that a good 270 handload probably has a good 7mm-08 handload covered"........OH THE INDIGNITY!

"Don't you know that the 150g 277 SST only has a BC of .0525?! The 7mm comes in VLD designs, you know!" From which point they start quoting retained energy figures for 600 yards!

I aint no expert, but some of this homage to and absolute fixation on BC borders on the "get a grip" status.

Personally for the style of hunting I do, any bullet with a BC of 0.40 is plenty sleek and flat shooting enough. When the rubber meets the road its all about the width and depth of the hole in the animal, and where the hole is.

Well Bobnob - I guess someof that swum the pond.

I don't know what the % is but I believe it is a VERY SMALL no of hunters that actually shoot & kill game past 400 yds.

REALITY is somewhere closer.

Had any shrimp on the barbie lately?

G'day mate!

Heheh no shrimp but I am partial to a wild pork sausage!

I agree, I just never shoot past 400. 400 is about as far as I can safely estimate range to within 20y or so. With a good 270 handload I also know that at worst, if I aim about 6 inches over the back of a boar, goat or deer, I am going to place that bullet throught the vitals. But if I begin to extend that range, well I make it too hard for myself.

With a little more discipline, and keeping my shots to under about 330y, well almost all the guesswork is taken out.

I reckon I could do the same with any good 6.5 or 7mm round. But I do get confused when the high BC brigade tell me that my 270, which sits right between the aforementioned metric marvels, can't possibly do it as well as theirs!

With all the discussion of deer calibers, one thing seldom discussed is how deer are acutally hunted...Killing a deer over bait is certainly a different set up than trying to take a deer on public land during a short season..This is something I think most folks forget...In some states you have seasons that last for months, bait is legal, if you have private land you have little competion,the terrain itself can dictate close range shots, all of this is important when selecting a rifle for deer..For years I hunted a private ranch in Wy..I could have killed a fair buck every year with a .22 Hornet, but it wasnt legal...BUT the huge bucks seldom made mistakes, and when they did you had better be ready to take advantage of it NOW...
I also have hunted public land lately, here if you spot a nice buck, you must be ready for any shot you feel capable of making..
On the east coast we hunted two states..one was loaded with deer and 5or 6 deer allowed perseason, and baiting was legal..at times I used a .223 or hot .22..there were hundreds of deer and along season..since I was retired, I hunted every day, no pressure...In the neighboring state no baiting was permited, the seasons were much shorter, there were no leases, but private land..even then the pressure was intense..if you saw a buck and wanted it, you best be ready to shoot now...if you had a long trailing job, you often found your buck in some one elses possession..As far as I see it deer are not difficult to kill if a good shot is presented, but the conditions that offer that shot vary widely...