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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,761 Likes: 7
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,761 Likes: 7 |
In this section of the board, we have people that hunt deer in very different environments. From the prairies (plains) to heavy woods. Some guys use different cartridges because of the distance to the target.
Keeping deer in mind, what bullet do you use? Do you feel that there is there a valid technical reason to use any premium bullet - Partition, bonded core or copper bullet?
I have never taken a deer past 150 yd. (estimated) except for when I was visiting friends in Saskatchewan. I had the loan of a 30-06 and used a Hornady 165 gr. Interlock bullet. The deer was approx. 250-300 yd. away.
In Ontario, the most powerful cartridge I've used on deer was a 308 Win. Usually, I take a 303 or 30-30. I've always used a cup and core bullet. I didn't feel it was worth it to use a premium bullet.
How about you?
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
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Campfire Member
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 496
Campfire Member
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I have used quite a few. Mostly Barnes X, TTSX and Accubonds. Some Fusions, and a few Partitions as well. I am a believer in the cup and cores, and if I had a dedicated deer rifle that had an MV of 2800 I would likely use a Hornady Interlock. Most of my rifles share double duty for moose and elk as well as deer and I am a firmer believer in penetration so premiums it is. I also like the difference that the premiums make in meat damage when it comes to the 3000fps+ rounds. I have shot most of my deer between 200-300yds away on the prairies and in the foothills.
AF Let your work be shown to your servants, and your glorious power to their children.
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,307 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,307 Likes: 2 |
I use a premium in the small bores ( .22 centerfires) to assure myself of good bullet performance.Never been dissappointed. From the .257 Bob on up its pretty much conventional bullets for deer. Premiums not needed.Though I havent used anything bigger than a cf .22 for years...
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,761 Likes: 7
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,761 Likes: 7 |
I use a premium in the small bores (.22 centerfires) to assure myself of good bullet performance.Never been disappointed. From the .257 Bob on up its pretty much conventional bullets for deer. Premiums not needed.Though I haven't used anything bigger than a cf .22 for years... I concur. For some reason, some people don't understand that the farther a bullet travels from the muzzle, the less punch it has. A 300 WM for example, has about the same energy at 300 yd as a 308 Win has at 100 yd. So what? At three hundred yards, a 300 WM is a 308 Winchester. Hopefully, the shooter is using the right bullet. I know that premium bullet maker try to design their bullets to function at a wider range of velocities, but again, who cares? You're after deer. Given their anatomy, I continue to wonder why people pay the extra for a bullet that offers no advantage. Perhaps I should start making 303 bullets again and tell people that they are capable of taking polar bears, browns and water buffaloes.
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 142
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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I use the Nosler Bal-Tip in my m77 Ruger in 280 Rem. and Hornady spire point in my old 6.5 X 55 . Reason for both is the same , that's what is accurate in them. I guess that I don't have to use the latest and the greatest just because it is the latest and the greatest. The old style bullets still do what I need. On the other hand , I do buy and try some of the premium bullets just for curiosities sake and to see if I'm missing out. Whatever turns your crank.
Everything I say to you is a lie , and that is the truth.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,586
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,586 |
I tend to work up a hunting load with one great bullet and use it for everything, deer included. Then there is the little fact that the farm I hunted deer on the last couple years has a LARGE grizzly sow and her cubs running around. Last year they were almost as large as her. The TSX makes more sense in that situation.
Anybody who seriously concerns themselves with the adequacy of a Big 7mm for anything we hunt here short of brown bear, is a dufus. They are mostly making shidt up. Crunch! Nite-nite!
Stolen from an erudite CF member.
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,576
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2007
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I use a premium in the small bores (.22 centerfires) to assure myself of good bullet performance.Never been disappointed. From the .257 Bob on up its pretty much conventional bullets for deer. Premiums not needed.Though I haven't used anything bigger than a cf .22 for years... I concur. For some reason, some people don't understand that the farther a bullet travels from the muzzle, the less punch it has. A 300 WM for example, has about the same energy at 300 yd as a 308 Win has at 100 yd. So what? At three hundred yards, a 300 WM is a 308 Winchester. Hopefully, the shooter is using the right bullet. I know that premium bullet maker try to design their bullets to function at a wider range of velocities, but again, who cares? You're after deer. Given their anatomy, I continue to wonder why people pay the extra for a bullet that offers no advantage. Perhaps I should start making 303 bullets again and tell people that they are capable of taking polar bears, browns and water buffaloes. Yes you should! Your 200gr are an amazing bullet. I have never collected one from game. Randy
Praise the Lord for full Salvation Christ Still lives upon the throne And I know the blood still cleansess Deeper than the sin has gone Lester Roloff
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
I tend to work up a hunting load with one great bullet and use it for everything, deer included. The TSX makes more sense in that situation. This is what I do.I don't know what a hunting season holds for me.I've used the same rifle for whitetails, mule deer,elk,antelope and sometimes black bear...sometimes in the same season....and once in awhile had a moose tag that popped up as well. Like Rick I have done some of this hunting in the bush country of Canada,and it was known to hold grizzlies....not that I worried about it but they were there. Point being that,after using C&C bullets on deer sized game, I know they will kill them;and I also know that a premium(if you want to call a simple bullet like a Partition a "premium")is not "required". But said another way there is absolutely no disadvantage to using them either....and I have never observed that any C&C kills materially "better" than the premiums I use.One thing that is for certain is that I can count on the premium to behave a certain way, predictably,about every time...and since I tend to use high velocity cartridges(even in the brush and woods)this is important. It is a lot simpler for me to grab a rifle and load that I know is zeroed, ready to go,and capable of managing more or less whatever I run into,and that I am familiar with,than get into a game of "deer bullet", "elk bullet","bear bullet", "brush bullet"....etc.If the elk shows up a few days after the deer,no problem.And if he never shows up, the deer is just as dead as if I'd saved a few cents on the C&C. One load....go kill stuff.JMHO.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,387 Likes: 45
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,387 Likes: 45 |
In this section of the board, we have people that hunt deer in very different environments. From the prairies (plains) to heavy woods. Some guys use different cartridges because of the distance to the target.
Keeping deer in mind, what bullet do you use? Do you feel that there is there a valid technical reason to use any premium bullet - Partition, bonded core or copper bullet?
I have never taken a deer past 150 yd. (estimated) except for when I was visiting friends in Saskatchewan. I had the loan of a 30-06 and used a Hornady 165 gr. Interlock bullet. The deer was approx. 250-300 yd. away.
In Ontario, the most powerful cartridge I've used on deer was a 308 Win. Usually, I take a 303 or 30-30. I've always used a cup and core bullet. I didn't feel it was worth it to use a premium bullet.
How about you? Doesn't get much better for a good ol deer bullet/cartridge combo.....
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,896
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,896 |
Never...
You better be afraid of a ghost!!
"Woody you were baptized in prop wash"..crossfireoops
Woody
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 873
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 873 |
I tend to use what shoots best in that particular rifle, and if a good old Hornady roundnose shoots best, I start drooling!
The bullet companies would have us to believe that nothing will pass to the hunting grounds in the sky if it isn't bonded or have a plastic tip, which is pure nonsense.
Likewise, most of my shots here in Michigan are close, oftimes in dense cedar swamp. The accuracy factor comes into play here, as often I have to thread that bullet into a hole that contains the vitals. One small twig can spell disaster...so it's best if she puts them where you're pointing.
The roundnose for me is strictly an aesthetic thing...somehow reminding me of red plaid wool jackets and the tag worn on the back. When game that was harvested was pulled out by hand, not an ATV. Plus, I just suspect with more frontal area those big soft bullets just peel open like a banana.
Kudos to those who go Old School!
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,552
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,552 |
I use core lokt round noses a lot
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,111
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,111 |
Haven't shot a mulie or whitetail with anything but a 140 7mm Accubond for a number of years.Accurate and gets the job done. Monashee
Support the BC Wildlife Federation
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,630
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,630 |
I use the same loads for deer as my moose hunting ammo.So guess most deer were shot with a premium.
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,173
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,173 |
Have had the pleasure of taking deer with many different bullets over the years:
.50 cal, 385 gr soft-swaged Hornady Great Plains, from a traditional muzzle loader
.458" 405 gr Rem FNSP from a .45/70 Marlin
Couple of different .44 mag JHP/JSP loads from a revolver
230 gr JHP bullets from a .45 ACP 1911
Quite a few different smaller bullets, 6mm - .30 cal, some "premium" some not. I'd say the Nosler Ballistic Tip is real favorite for both accuracy and lethality, even in the little 95 gr version. Have to say that I'm a real fan of the milder cartridges, 6mm - .30 cal, particularly the 6mm Rem, .25-06 and the .308 Win. No muss, no fuss, just pleasant to shoot, tag-filling rifles.
Shot a few with a 55 gr .223 as well.
Can't think of any that got away or even ran very far. I think it's a lot more about hitting them right, than what they're hit with.
Guy
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 20,494
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 20,494 |
I use premiums because I can afford to and they shoot well in my rifles. TSX 150 TSX in my wife's 30-06 and 168 TAX in mine. Ammo is the cheapest part of the hunt, and no, I don't think I need them, they just work so well, why not?
"Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life." (Prov 4:23) Brother Keith
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 519
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 519 |
I have shot a lot of game animals from moose down, all with, for the most part Rem Corloc's or Horn Interlocks. But all my huntin guns range in velocities from 2,000-3,000fps, & cailbers from the little 250s to 308s to the big bore 38-55 I figure for the price of one box of premiums I can buy two boxes of reg bullets & shoot twice as much. I just can't figure how all those old guys killed all the game animals they did back in the days before premium bullets.
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 190
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 190 |
Nope. Cup and core for this cowboy. I shoot a 270 and load 140gr Hornady BTSP. Have used this combo for yrs and never had a bullet failure or lost an animal. Deer do not require a premium bullet to kill. They are fine boned. Up here in the great white north we have mature bucks that go 350 lbs, which are the ones I target for the better part of 3 weeks every fall, and have never had a problem with penetration.
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,761 Likes: 7
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,761 Likes: 7 |
So, let's see what we've got so far.
Premium bullets are better designed these days. Most are made with a specific job in mind and are robustly constructed to handle dangerous game. With the exception of hunting deer in areas where there is a threat of being attacked by a large, testy carnivore, there still doesn't seem to be any technical reason for using them that I've read so far.
Their special construction - partitioned, bonded or homogenous - adds to the cost. If deer are your target, I'm still at a loss to understand any technical reason to use them.
WRT accuracy, I think it's far to say that premiums are running neck and neck with cup and core bullets. I know that one brand may prove to be "the bee's knees" in your rifle, but overall, they offer nothing extra that way.
I suspect that some people simply like their look - in the same way that consumers find one brand of automobile more visually appealing. Or (gasp!) is it snob appeal?
Is the fact that they are more expensive, guarantee success in your mind? Do you believe that hitting a whitetail at 100 yards with a Partition versus a Core Lokt increases the odds?
Perhaps using a premium bullet inspires your confidence.
This last possibility is often overlooked. Mental conditioning is just as important as your rifle/ammunition. Some would argue what you think about your equipment is more important. The power of positive thinking, IOW.
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
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