Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa .416 Weatherby

think alot of the discourse you hear about Weatherby rifles and Africa stems back from the early days of Weatherby when the bullets werent as good as they are today....with good bullets the higher velocity is fine, with cup and core commonly loaded in days past, not so much.....

The PH I hunted with in 1972, had a 460Wby for his back up gun, on DG. Used a 300H&H on other stuff.

Muzzle break, velocity, weatherby. Heck, who cares? Shoot 'em. I have no problem with any suitable caliber for the job at hand. My worry is with: 1. can the hunter shoot his rifle accurately at an animal (the shooting range never impresses me) and 2. the quality of the ammunition.

I have my fingers and toes crossed that my puny 416 Rem will work for me on buffalo in a few years. Ya' think?

NOW, you're just making stuff up!

I personally would not hunt DG with a PH who employed a .378 Weatherby as his back up rifle. Nor any other Weatherby magazine rifle, for that matter.

It will work just fine if you hit him in the right spot. if you shoot him badly, nothing will work and you will have an interesting afternoon.

Why??? You seem to be quick to throw out little blurbs, but don't elaborate as to why or how you arrive at your conclusions.

I'm sure the PH is NOT losing any sleep that you're not hunting with him. But I've been wrong many times in the past.

and why is that?

Well, that goes pretty much for all magazine rifles, not just Weatherbys. A good question.

A PH has a professional obligation to make sure you go home in the same condition you arrived in. That is, intact. He should never have to fire his rifle except to prevent someone from being hurt or killed, or to prevent a wounded, dangerous animal from escaping.

That's why I want the PH to carry a double. Two quick, sure, heavy caliber shots in case they are needed. Bolt actions are more likely to malfunction than a double. Even best quality bolt actions. A double is much less likely to malfunction. Also, two shots are quicker with a double, though three are likely quicker with a bolt action. A double in my PH's hands is a little bit of life insurance, IMO.

If you are not in DG country, it doesn't matter. But if you are in DG country, I think you are better off with a double in your PH's hands.

As to Weatherbys, IMO they are too much of a good thing. Someone once said that the trouble with the male child is they believe if a little bit of whisky is good, a whole lot of whisky has got to be a whole lot better. Ditto for velocity. Unless you are hunting somewhere where the shots will be very long, most places in Africa require shots under 200 (and many under 100) yards. This does not require a flat shooting, high velocity rifle. The longest shot I've ever taken was at a gold medal springbok. One shot kill with a .30/06 at 315 yards. That is the exception, not the rule.

Another problem with ultra high velocity in a heavy caliber rifle (.375 and up) is that we really don't have bullets that, when fired from a heavy, high velocity rifle will stabilize quickly and penetrate without coming apart. Maybe someday we will, but not at the moment. Even the best monometal bullets will bend at high impact velocities.

No less an authority than Doctari Robertson says that in his experience, a 300 grain .375 bullet at 2,400 fps is a better killer on large animals than the same bullet at 2,600 fps. His books "The Perfect Shot" and "Africa's Most Dangerous both have excellent sections on rifles and ammunition. I highly recommend them. they are available from Safari Press.

Once again, please provide your personal experience with Weatherby rifles and cartridges.

Kevin Robertson is a good guy and experienced PH, and writes pretty well, but he isn't the only PH in the world, much less God. And quoting him is no different than me quoting the experience of a vastly more experienced PH, Kevin Thomas--whom I've actually hunted with. Have you hunted with Doctari?

I just took you off "ignore," just so I can keep asking about your "personal experience."

for whatever its worth i do know in Terry Wieland's Dangerous Game Rifles book he states the main fault he sees with the Weatherby rifles is if yah ever have to take the bolt apart for cleaning in the field there are a couple small parts like a ball bearing that your very prone to lose.....and such a part lost means no more operational rifle.....course the same can be said for alot of bolt action designs other than the basic military mauser and those that follow it closely....

Once again, would love to hear Terry's personal, actual experience with the failure of Weatherby bolts--rather than the theoretical disadvantages.

and i presented it as a theoretical and followed up that others have the same problem.....course most the discussions on here fall under theoretical and not actual

to me its a nice fact to know, does it matter to the average hunter going over there? no prolly not.....will it matter to a PH packing the rifle every day for a 9 month season? maybe.....

in his book he just stated it as a fact, if you take the bolt apart for cleaning there are a couple tiny parts....no doubt he shows a distinct preference for original mausers in his book but i didnt take it to mean he was ragging on the Weatherby any more than some of the other rifles....

mule deer:

I have shot Weatherby rifles on the range and simply did not like the rifle. I didn't like the way the rifle fit me, the way the action felt or that it was a push feed. Therefore, I do not own (and never will own) a Weatherby rifle. Why bring a rifle on safari that you don't feel comfortable with? Especially a DG safari.

I have not hunted with Kevin, but have spoken with him at length on several occasions and hold a great deal of respect for him. He is both a veterinarian and licensed Zim PH. It takes four years of intensive training, bush experience, written, practical and oral exams to earn a Zim PH license. He has incorporated his experience as a veterinarian and PH into his writings and has taken multiple DG species personally and many more guiding clients. I do not agree with every word Kevin has written, but I respect his opinions because he has been there and done it personally. He does not base his opinions on what he has been told by someone else, as you apparently do. I do not respect your opinions on DG, mule deer, because you have not done it personally, yourself. When you have legitimately personally hunted and killed the Big Five, including several elephant and cape buff, my opinion of your writings in this area may change. But until then, I give them no credence whatsoever. Kevin bases his writings on what he has done, not on what he has been told by someone else.

If you would limit your opinions and writings to what you have personally done, your credibility would increase. I respectfully suggest you limit your writings to North American game ( which seems to be where your real experience lies) and whatever plains game species you have personally hunted on a fair chase, free range basis. That means no culls, no genetically engineered animals and no fences. When you opine about hunting dangerous African game, your credibility falls apart, since apparently, you have never personally done it.

I have never taken a Marco Polo in it's natural habitat, but am fascinated by the prospect. If you have hunted one in it's natural habitat (which is far, far from the USA), please direct me to the article you wrote about it. I would enjoy reading about your experiences, as that is something I have never done. if you have, I would respect your opinion about hunting that species since obviously, you would have personal experience in doing so, which I do not have.

With the numbers of hunters and shooters continually on the decline in our times, it's ludicrous to me that some who choose to still participate in these activities criticize and denigrate others who also choose to still participate in these activities...over what? Their choice of rifle and/or caliber! Damn!
...just sayin'.

Forgive me sir but if personal experience is weighted so heavily in your forming of opinions then wouldn't you be, by your own definition, terribly unqualified to discuss the use of Weatherby rifles in Africa?

So you're happy with the 2nd hand (though undoubtedly experienced) opinion of Kevin Robertson. How would that differ from anyone else citing another experienced PH like MD did with Kevin Thomas?

If we're talking personal experience, mine, on DG, is limited to two each elephant, buffalo, and hippo plus 1 each lion and croc.

With this very limited experience, I've noticed no difference between a .458 and a .375 H&H. Shoot into the heart-lung-shoulder-CNS and you're going to kill the animal. You have to remember that anything big enough to require such calibers has a very large vital organs and is seldom shot at more than 75 yards away. Doctari Robertson with his .375 at 2400 fps (or the 9.3x62 he writes about) and Kevin Thomas with his .378 will probably have no trouble killing such game.

What does this have to do with a .416 Weatherby? Not much. It's simply that I don't think there's any need for one. Or any value. But there is a greater possibliity of flinching. (Full disclosure: I've personally never fired a .416.)

As for the Weatherby action, I have killed most of my plains game with a .300 Weatherby MkV. I don't understand the circumstances that would cause one to disassemble the bolt. I suspect that anyone who knew how to do this would know about the ball bearing. As for PF vs. CRF, I am one who thinks there is no difference in reliability, having fired thousands of center-fire rounds through each, both in hunting but mostly in rapid-fire NRA High Power competition.