Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles AR Gold vs Geissele HS National Match triggers

I'd appreciate input on the feel of both triggers from those who have used them. I'm not so much looking for opinions about preference, but more descriptions of how each one feels during the firing process. I've read the descriptions from each manufacturer and they seem quite similar. My only real-world experience is squeezing a Geissele SSA a few times, if that helps form a basis of comparison.

The SSA and Hi-Speed National Match are two completely different animals. I like the SSA but it doesn't have the refined feel that a properly tuned Hi-Speed has plus the Hi-Speed has a 40% faster lock time, hence the "Hi-Speed" name.

When I bought mine it came with three different springs labled "service rifle, DMR and National Match. I started with the N/M spring but decided it was just too light for my needs and replaced it with the DMR. The N/M setup is sweet, but for me it would be for bench work only. Trying to find that second stage stop at only a few ounces with cold fingers wouldn't work for me. Now, I do have the sear engagement set at an absolute bare minimum for a true "glass rod" break. If I were to dial in a little more engagement I could probably get by the the N/M setup.

Mine is setup now with the DMR spring and minimum sear engagement. The 1st stage is @ 2.5lbs and the 2nd stage is just under a pound. I can ease the 1st stage and feel the 2nd stage stop, then all I have to think is "shoot" and it's happened. It very much reminds me of a Remington 700 Jewel trigger on the 2nd stage.

IMO it's an excellent option if precision shooting is what you have in mind.

Terry

Thanks, Terry. This will be used to shoot paper and prairie dogs from a bench, so precision is the name of the game.

I have the Geiselle trigger that SOCOM uses in my work gun. 4.5# nice, feels a lot like my RR NM.

My AR Gold is a totally different experience. 3.5# out of the package, feels a pound lighter, think Bianchi Cup 1911 trigger. You will probably have to fit the safety to it, directions accompany. Absolutely no comparison between these two triggers.

The N/M may be just the ticket then. My only complaint with N/M is that you really have pay close attention to the 1st stage pull or you'll go right through the 2nd stage. I personally like to pull the 1st stage then settle down on target in the 2nd stage before I shoot. With the N/M spring you really have to concentrate on making that happen. With the DMR spring I can feel the stop without setting off a round. The 2nd stage on the DMR goes down to IIRC 8 ounces. IMO, that's pretty light. At slightly less than one pound it's still extremely light but very controlled for me.

Best of luck,
Terry

Great shooting can be done with a RR NM, no doubt. The Gold gives an speed advantage to a comp rifle, so if that isn't part of your plan, it may just be extra money for nothing, IMO. They are NICE though!

I've heard a lot people say the AR Gold is the absolute best 3 gun trigger on the market. Something about the way it works makes follow up shots easier. I'm probably going to get one someday.

I also agree that a good group can be shot with lesser triggers. I have a couple of the RRA MN triggers and think they are an excellent value.

Terry

I have a fair amount of experience with the RR NM and don't love it.

T_a_k: Can you describe the feel of the AR Gold? I have no experience with a Bianchi Cup 1911, so I'm not able to relate to that example.

I probably should been clearer in the post below. It was in reference to the Geissele National Match Hi-Speed, not the RRA N/M.


That said, not long ago I could buy a complete RRA NM parts kit for $113. They may not be on the same level as the triggers being described here but they are definaitely an improvement over stock for a target shooter and IMO a good value.

Terry

RRA need work to be good. Sometimes more than others. You can adjust the stages as needed/wanted up to a point and hone the rest in such that you'll never know the difference between them and most other top triggers.

The issues with Gieselle are most personal preference issues and I suspect its the same with the AR Gold.

Bottom line in the end, folks that shoot a LOT tend to be REALLY picky about their triggers. Those that just shoot quite a bit, are not so much picky often.

If I was still involved, i'd have tried the AR Gold by now but being that I"m not shooting any longer and that all the triggers we have in our guns work just fine to win matches I can't help y'all on that. Other than the fact the Geiselles we'd tried... would have had a bunch of them by now I"m sure as we got other lowers.

What I can say, is that the AR trigger by Jewel sucks IMHO.

Feels like 1911 trigger properly tuned by the hundred or so people on planet earth who are masters at doing so. That is the best I can give you. It is technically a two-stage but barely so.

The Gold will take you about one minute to install.

The Gieselle will take a gunsmith 3 hours.

Why is this, setting the adjustment screws?

A Jewell is about as complicated a trigger as I've seen but still takes less than 15 minutes not counting adjusting the screws.

It shouldn't take anymore than about 1/2hr to install and adjust it. The nice part is you might learn something about it in the process.

Here is wonderful video Bill did on the install of a Hi-Speed National Match trigger. He reminds me of my 7th grade shop teacher.


Terry

if it takes a gunsmith 3 hours to install you must deal with Fulton Armory.

A trained monkey can put in and tune a Geiselle in 30-45 minutes depending on how picky you are. Not enough time to raise a sweat IMHO.

I have tried Jewell, RR, JP and Geiselle. For me the best for the money was Jewell. Very smooth and easy to adjust and it goes down lower in weight than all the others. Geiselle are nice but not worth the money. Buy a Jewell and save $80. Jewell has a smoother first stage.

I bought a Geissele National Match 2-stage for my lower to complement the upper Mike Millie built for me. Not bad installing it. Actually pretty easy considering the exhaustive instructions that take into account nearly everything when it comes to the installation and how the trigger works.

From the factory the first stage came to a stop at 1 pound 15 ounces exactly according to my digital trigger-pull gage. The second breaks at 2 pounds 13 ounces and this with me not even doing much adjusting at all! I just followed the instructions for the sear engagement and shazaam! And the second stage break is clean.

Only thing I don't like right now is when the hammer is cocked, the trigger has some drag on it. I think it may be the pins are so precisely ground to size they need to be polished. When the hammer is not cocked the trigger feels like it is rotating on an oiled glass rod.

FWIW, and this doesn't matter if you are happy with a Jewel. They do not (unless they've fixed a big problem) have the same pull weight shot to shot. Its not much of a variance but I can dang sure feel it. They changed something from prototype that I shot quite a bit, to production and once I bought a production one I shot it a few months and sold it as quick as I could because it just flat bothered me.

Also they have a slow lock time. Very slow in reality compared to a Geiselle. That affects accuracy to a great degree.

Now remember I"m picky, used to be a competitor and demand the best. Jewel was not that. Not nearly. My favorites are still our Milazzo's. And I'd take a well tuned RRA every day over a Jewel( unless as noted they fixed their problems since).

As such noted the above, the Jewel seems to work fine for many folks.

As such noted the above, the Jewel seems to work fine for many folks.

But most folks don't have anything else to compare them to except stock which always sucks but always works, not so with the Jewell. Yet people get hyped over shooting off the bench when everything is static. Get out in the field and even the stock trigger is useable, at least it'll go bang.

I too prefer the one millazzo I've tried to everything else.

They don't even make that trigger anymore, do they?