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Joined: Jan 2006
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,406 Likes: 5 |
I bought a used one recently. This weekend I finally got a chance to take it to the hills for a trial run in the rough stuff. If you're contemplating buying a diesel with a manual, you might find my experience useful.
Diesels are famous for their low end torque. They far exceed gas engines for power at low speeds. If you're used to gas or an a/t, you might find it a bit different. When you come up to a rock pile or washed out place in the road, it won't slow down. The engine normally idles about 8 to 900 rpm. At that speed it has a lot more power than you might expect. If you try to brake down, you'll likely kill the engine. If you need to crawl over the rocks, you're going to have to shift down, unlike an a/t where the truck can come to a stop and the tranny will handle the idle speed for you. The engine will pull you over some pretty steep stuff while idling and with the manual, that means you're going over that pretty steep stuff at whatever ground speed the gearing dictates. If you don't shift down,you'd better have the seat belt tight because you're going to get a ride.
This isn't to say this is bad. It's actually good, but just different and you need to learn to drive the equipment properly.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 649
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 649 |
Good advise, I drove my buddy's Cummins with the 6 speed in the mountains and know exactly what you are talking about. You can feather the brakes a little and work the clutch to slow down but man those deisels have some torque, eh?
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Joined: Mar 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 18,881 |
Yes. No torque converter or driving with the brake on with a stick out in the rough.
I bought a six speed stick for my 06 Dodge because I didn't want the heat dump or extra servicing charges that go with a heavily used auto trans.
With a diesel you also don't get much compression braking either. But I'll still take a stick over an auto trans for heavy towing, which is why I bought the thing in the first place.
Now, for off roading, I like the ease of using an auto trans equipped rig. E
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Joined: Dec 2003
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,253 Likes: 25 |
Does your truck have 4 wheel low?
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,406 Likes: 5
Campfire Kahuna
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OP
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,406 Likes: 5 |
4 wheel low? I would say so. It's a Dodge with a 6 speed to start with. Put it in 1st low and at 2000 rpm, you're speeding along at 2 mph.
As for compression braking, starting in '07 or so, Dodge's come with a Jake brake.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,293
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,293 |
Now, for off roading, I like the ease of using an auto trans equipped rig. E I dunno, man. My buddy has a Ford with a non-turbo 7.3 five-speed. For the kind of off-roading I would think prudent to do with an extended cab long bed, I find that just putting it in gear and letting it crawl over whatever obstacle I am up against works pretty well.
This is a shooting forum, there is no place here for logic.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 481
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Apr 2005
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You can get in some interesting circumstances with an auto if you use tow/haul in 4 low. I did this one by accident, the brakes couldn't stop the truck.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,862 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,862 Likes: 5 |
You can get in some interesting circumstances with an auto if you use tow/haul in 4 low. I did this one by accident, the brakes couldn't stop the truck. That gets even more interesting when you are backing up down hill....... !!!!!!!!!!!
Sic Semper Tyrannis
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,390
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,390 |
4 wheel low? I would say so. It's a Dodge with a 6 speed to start with. Put it in 1st low and at 2000 rpm, you're speeding along at 2 mph.
As for compression braking, starting in '07 or so, Dodge's come with a Jake brake. The Cummins have an exhaust brake, no compression brake.
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,390
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,390 |
I bought a used one recently. This weekend I finally got a chance to take it to the hills for a trial run in the rough stuff. If you're contemplating buying a diesel with a manual, you might find my experience useful.
Diesels are famous for their low end torque. They far exceed gas engines for power at low speeds. If you're used to gas or an a/t, you might find it a bit different. When you come up to a rock pile or washed out place in the road, it won't slow down. The engine normally idles about 8 to 900 rpm. At that speed it has a lot more power than you might expect. If you try to brake down, you'll likely kill the engine. If you need to crawl over the rocks, you're going to have to shift down, unlike an a/t where the truck can come to a stop and the tranny will handle the idle speed for you. The engine will pull you over some pretty steep stuff while idling and with the manual, that means you're going over that pretty steep stuff at whatever ground speed the gearing dictates. If you don't shift down,you'd better have the seat belt tight because you're going to get a ride.
This isn't to say this is bad. It's actually good, but just different and you need to learn to drive the equipment properly. The reason your Cummins is like that is because they come with a feature called zero throttle launch. All you need to do is the the clutch out and the engine will be fueled by the ECM. Makes it very nice with a big load behind you if you're starting on a hill. No need to try and jump off the brake and on the the throttle while you roll backwards. Like you've discovered with the ZTL,in low speed situations the ECM is fueling the truck not your foot.
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,406 Likes: 5 |
That's a new one on me, although I'm quite new to diesel pickups. I have an '08 and the owners manual says nothing about it. I'll take it out and give it a try...when I'm not tailgating at a red light.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,910
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,910 |
Three footing is your friend on the rough stuff.
All motors will compression brake. And exhaust brake is even nicer, especially with a load.
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Joined: Apr 2001
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 12,895 |
With a diesel you also don't get much compression braking either. Compared to what? Diesels are generally preferred for off-roading over here simply because they do offer good compression braking and that's been my experience with them also. I hate auto transmissions, especially for off-roading as I much prefer to be in charge of the gear box and hate that hunting sound as the autobox chases down the correct gear.. That said i am quite old fashioned when it comes to 4x4's and also dislike all the computer controlled drive-by-wire in modern 4x4's; much prefer simple,reliable and rugged. A friend was telling me about the fancy computer controlled throttle in his Discovery..I had a manual hand throttle in my old Isuzu Trooper that achieved much the same thing sans an electrics or computers..
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,406 Likes: 5
Campfire Kahuna
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OP
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,406 Likes: 5 |
You could fix the old ones yourself. Now they get to charge you to fix them. They're slowly working toward where no one without an engineering degree can do anything more than change a tire...if that.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 12,895
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 12,895 |
You could fix the old ones yourself. Now they get to charge you to fix them. They're slowly working toward where no one without an engineering degree can do anything more than change a tire...if that. In some respects its being driven by the need to comply with emission controls and assorted other Government regulations, plus the quest for more MPG. Additionally, Joe Public seems to want the latest computerized "whiz bang" in all their consumer products regardless of whether it offers anything tangible... I am not sure how big a market there is for basic bomb proof 4x4's, but I am surprised nobody has started a business "re manufacturing"/renovating old models into as near new condition..I am not talking about expensive one off hand builds, but using a small production line to keep costs down.. by starting with a used vehicle, I assume many of the current regulations would not be applicable?
Last edited by Pete E; 08/29/12.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,862 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,862 Likes: 5 |
PeteE, there is already a cottage industry popping up doing just that for semi trucks.
There's very few people really interested in using their trucks for the heavy duty off road stuff -- they just go to the end of the gravel and unload the quads.
Sic Semper Tyrannis
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,293
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,293 |
Pete, there's a place in Texas that rebuilds Jeeps, and I think there's a place in the Pugetopolis area of Washington (Olympia or Tacoma, I think) that does (or did) the same for Toyota FJs, along with converting to diesel.
This is a shooting forum, there is no place here for logic.
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