Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles 35 whelen load, still coming up short

this morning i loaded up some 250gr hornady RN on top of 60gr of RL15. accuracy is just an inch. could probably be better but it was 88 degrees and i was sweatin my sack off and wasnt really shooting to my normal ability. my crony was in the shade, about 15 feet off the muzzle and i was reg. an average velocity of 2420fps from my 18.5" barrel. ive read enough from the guys on here who DO know that 2400fps w/ the whelen w/ a 250gr bullet is more then enough wallop. however i just cant get past wanting to achive the 2500/2550 mark w/ the 250's.

i was told that since i have a carbine length bbl that IMR3031 may yeild more velocity then r15 since its a slightly faster burning powder. does this seem right? also, i had some 250 horn. rn loaded w/ 54gr of IMR4064 that was reading around 2300fps and some 225gr nos. pt w/ 59.5gr of r15 at 2500fps.

also, would the extreme humidity and heat give false readings on my crono? thanks in advance for any input.

-Brandon

Brandon,
With the 18.5" barrel you are getting about what would expect with that load. I do get 2500-2550 with my 22" barreled whelen. Faster powders, IMO, will not get you there either. I have done a bunch of reloading for this cartridge and reloader 15 is the best I have found. With the shorter barrel you are losing at a minimum of 25 fps per inch and could be as high as 40fps per inch of barrel.

If you have the desire for flatter trajectories without losing any penetration, I can recommnd the Barnes 225 gr TSX. Use R15 with this bullet also and you will be over 2500fps.

Good shooting,
John

Long bearing surface on the 250gr RN makes it less than the best choice for high velocity as pressure is gonna be high, possibly dangerously high with spikes. The combo you are shooting may well be the primary reason Alliant reduceded their rec. max by over 10%.
The Hornady 250gr SP seems to be a little better behaved than the RN when you are pushing for max velocity.
It is worth considering BigBullets thoughts

I agree with both these gents and definitely do not agree with whomever pointed you towards faster powders for more speed in a short barrel, especially 3031.

I think Alliant has reduced their load for a number of reasons, but the burn rate of "plastic container" 15 is slightly quicker, and most sources bear this out.

Get past it or go to a lighter bullet.

I use 60gr of RL15 with a 225 gr TSX in my whelen, with around 2600 fps as average. RL15 has been the very accurate in my Whelen.

You have a short barrel, you give up velocity for compactness.

huh. now i read lastnight that the 250rn is one of the 'better' 250gr bullets to use as it doesnt create as high of pressures as most others. also, i am not seeing signs of pressure yet.

The 250 gr Hornady RN has a very short bearing "surface". That said I use the 225 gr TSX in my Whelen and recently used the 200 gr TTSX in my 358 Win with excellent results. I too would go lighter, no need for 250's.

Mine has a 22" barrel but I got my highest velocities with IMR 4320 and H 4895. I, personally, haven't tried RL 15. As mentioned above the 250 Hornady RN does have a pretty short bearing surface; rifling won't engrave very much forward of the cannelure. At least that's what I've seen on some fired bullets recovered from the backstop.

............Brandon,,,,,,,,,,

Why is there such a need for you to move a 250 grainer @ between 2500 and 2550 fps?? Your rifle is what it is. So if it cannot move a 250 that fast, then why not go down to a 225 where you will get 2500-2550 fps? Something in the field that a 250 will do that a 225 could not?

Secondly. Which ever powder or powders listed that offer the best speeds from a longer barreled 35 Whelen, will also give you the best speeds from your shorter barrel. This business that faster burning powders offer better speeds from the shorter barrels is an assumptive myth which somehow/somewhere got started.

But in terms of getting the better bullet speeds, you reload your 18.5" barreled carbine as though you owned a longer barrel.

The recommendation of the Barnes 225 gr. TSX is a good one. The 225 gr. Nosler partition or Accubond would also be darn good choices. I load 60.4 gr. of RL15 in my Whelen with the Barnes 225 gr. TSX and get a solid 2710 FPS. I tried 53.0 gr. of H335 with the 250 gr. Hornady RN and spire point as well as the 250 gr. Speer Hot Core. Accuracy was good in three different Whelen rifles but IIRC velocity was around 2450 to 2475 FPS. My Ruger M77 and Remington Classic .35's only have 22" barrels and my custom Mauser has a 23" barrel. Frankly, I'd tangle with anything in North America with any of those loads and probably a lot of African game as well. I'd be a lot happier with the 225 gr. TSX though, especially on the bigger stuff.
Paul B.

Sound advice here about your velocities, bullet and powder choices for your Whelen. You didn't mention your weapon though....I happen to have a Remmy 24" take off barrel chambered for the Whelen I'd let go of reasonably.
BD

I'd love to see a pic of your 35 Whelen and the copious notes you have to establish your claims of powder performance.....

well i apreciate the input guys. i guess the reason i was looking for the speed was to keep that 250 gr bullet in the sweet spot for honadys "recomended useful range".

i can live w/ what i have but not knowing i thought ide ask and see if i was missing the boat somewheres.

406SBC, ill get ya a pic. its just a simple 7600 carbine. i do actually take notes on all my loads. otherwise i couldnt tell ya day to day what did what. i ahve a bad memory. what kind of notes would you like sir?

I had a Remington 721 in .35 Whelen with a 26" barrel. It did around 2,500 fps with the Speer 250 spitzer and 54 grs. IMR4064, probably a max. load in that rifle, but was very accurate. The same load in a Ruger 77 .35 Whelen with a 22" barrel gave 2,390.

I have only used RL15 in my M700 CDL 35 Whelen 24" barrel. I read about the powder being the ONE for the Whelen right around the time I got the rifle and I have never been let down. My first load work up was just the same as Paul's, a 225 TSX with 60 grains of RL15. Had excellent accuracy and knocked off an Idaho back bear and small bull elk with it.

This is what I recovered from the bear (elk was a pass through).



After that, I just didn't think the TSX had the same effect as the lead cored bullets, so I started working with the 250 Speer Hor Cor. Awesome bullet in the Whelen. 59.5 grains of RL15 pushed that bullet just under 2600, about 2590 if I recall right. Accuracy was pretty good.

100 yards



200 yards



300 yards



Then, I got some 250 grain PT's. Well, I worked up to 60 grains of RL15, I was getting about 2640 over the chrono and accuracy was pretty good as I crept up closer to 60 grains.

59 grains RL15



60 grains RL15



I have gotten some excellent groups ever since with the 250 PT's. Easily an MOA load out to 400 or better.

[img]http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww233/beretzs/RELOADING%20TARGETS/DSC_2589.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww233/beretzs/RELOADING%20TARGETS/DSC_2738.jpg[/img]

Then, on a whim, I decided to try the 225 AB. I kept the seating die setting exactly the same as the 250 PT and loaded up some charges to see how they would do, speed and accuracy wise.

60.5 RL15

[img]http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww233/beretzs/RELOADING%20TARGETS/IMG_0908.jpg[/img]

60 RL15

[img]http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww233/beretzs/RELOADING%20TARGETS/IMG_0907.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww233/beretzs/RELOADING%20TARGETS/957BF520.jpg[/img]

I then took that rifle out to the longer range and dialed it up and shot a 4-6" group at 600 with it. I was really impressed with it. Really alot of power on tap from the old Whelen when it is loaded up well. Never saw another better powder than RL15 for it with 225 and 250's. At least nothing that has me running out to change.

Sorry for the long story, but with 18.5" of barrel, 2400 with a 250 grain bullet is AWESOME in my book. That is still a very flat shooting round and will smash anything pretty easily out to 300 yards without a whole lot of holdover if it is zeroed correctly. Sounds like you are getting excellent accuracy with it, I wouldn't sweat the speed, it really won't make too much difference unless you are really trying to push it far. Glad to see so many Whelen shooters here.

The powder giving the highest velocity in a cartridge will give the highest velocity regardless of barrel length. If R-15 out of a 22" barrel is faster than 4064, the same will hold true with a 18" barrel.

well thanks again guys. letr me ask one more question. and this is completley personal preferance but if it wereyou would you just keep the load ive been shooting which is a 225 PT @2500 or the 250 horn rn @2400. probably splitting hairs. although the hornady is much cheaper and looks way sexier

My rile is a custom built on an Oberndorf mauser. barrel is 23:, stock pure classic. The foreend tip and grip cap are made from elephant ivory. It has a 1 in 14" twist. I spotted it at a gun show as part of an estate sale and when I picked it up and threw it to my shoulder, I was hooked. I've never in over 54 years of hunting found a rifle that fit me so well. Accuracy is superb with the 225 gr. TSX, usually running .50 to .75".
I also have a Ruger M77RS and Remington Classic in the Whelen but they haven't been used very much. All three rifles will do 1.25" with the 250 gr. Hornady RN and SP and the 250 gr. Speer Hot Core with the H335 load I mentioned.
There's an awful lot of .35 Whelen talk going on over on the Nosler forum for those who are interested. You'd almost think the Whelen was one of the only cartridges worth owning. http://www.noslerreloading.com/phpBB2/index.php I posted the url for those who might want to take a looksee.
Paul B.