Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Black bear

Last week after taking 2 blacks in Alberta, I moved up to Ft. Smith NWT, visiting a friend of mine who guides there for an outfitter for black bear, just south of the border in Alberta. They only do the bait barrel set up.
<br>Interesting observations on the visiting hunters choice of firearms.
<br>The bulk of rifles brought up were the bigger guns.
<br>.300 Ultra-mag, .375 H&H, .338, .300 Win Mag, 7 mm Mag. Just the odd 30-06 or similar class.
<br>Almost invariably the rifles had 26 inch tubes, and strangest of all, the scopes.
<br>The smallest scope in camp was the 3x9!!
<br>And..............................what is that obsession with the duplex with fine cross hairs????
<br>One frustrated hunter could not tell for the longest time what part of the bear he was looking at through his 4x lowest setting @ 2230 PM ( legal time), in the spruce, where it is a lot darker then on the cut line . His fine duplex crosshairs against the black fur in the dark spruce disolved itself.
<br>I do not know how many of you would fall in the same trap, but here is how I see it guys.
<br>First of all, good adult black bears go around 150-200 lbs. The real big ones and they are not abundant, go up to 300 lbs, with the odd monster up to 400+ lbs.
<br>Well, You do not need a big rifle to kill a blackie @ the long distance of 30 or less meters. Specially not when the blackie is lying down besides the trough trying to lick grain out of the 15/16 inch holes, and you are in a treestand above him. You get the drift right? Also the superfast calibers tend to make monstrous exit holes in the relative small boned black bears. You shoot them for the fur right??
<br>No, your run of the mill .308, 30-06, .270,7x57, 6.5x55,
<br>7-08, is all you need, even a scoped 30/30 or .35 rem is just fine. I say scoped, becase at dusk in the spruce it gets rather dark. My eyes need a scope.
<br>What scope?? Looooooowwwww power. Like in 1-4 .
<br>With 4x being the absolute max. Thick duplex hairs, so you can see them in the dark. Low settings in your variable enhance brightness and field of view, what you need in that situation.
<br>With rifles think carbine rather then long tubes. Sight your rifle in @ 50 yards for this type of hunting.
<br>Once in the treestand, remove all gadgets and paraphenelia such as rifle slings with those squeeky swivels, and those cute scope caps that go pop when you flip the lever and make the bear bolt, for the last I make an exeption if it is pouring rain, and then try to remember to gently lift the caps @ moment of truth.
<br>All hunters had good fleece clothing, but many with gortex raingear. Gortex is noisy and @ 30 yards can easily spook a bear. I prefer the Helly Hansen ultra light absulute weather proof in driving rain and not as noisy.
<br>Anyway, my native pall there with 100+ bears, 100+ moose, around 200 Buffalo, and close to 2000 caribou to his name prefers the 30-06 with 180 grain nosler partitions for all, exept caribou for which he likes the .270 and 130 grain soft points.
<br>My 2 cents worth.
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I thought that stand hunting generally was successfull at last or first light when it is very dificult to see.
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<br>A better choice for your scope is a large front objective, say 50mm, 8-10 power mag, and an illuminated retical. Magnification effectively moves you closer to you target so you can see it better. A 50 mm objective maxs the useful light collection with 8-10 power. Illuminated retical lets you see the retical in low light conditions.

Dang it man stop making sense!! You're costing our American gun and scope manufacturers money with logic like that
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<br>did you get another bear at the second place? Get any pictures to share with those of us less fortunates?
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<br>Mike

Guess as long as it makes you grin and hopefully doesn't COST you a bear, what the heck.
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<br>I'm guilty of taking two bears w/ a .300Wby mag though low light/not seeing crosshairs/etc. were NO problem for my situations. The two i've taken w/ a 30-06 hopefully will redeem me??? I mean, for crying out loud, an 06 is only one step from a pointy stick!
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<br>BTW, I've shot most of my game w/ partitions and they tend to make a caliber sized exit hole. NEVER had one leave a gaping hole -- even with the Wby.
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<br>Something to stew on -- a big exit wound has its merits in certain situations... bears give you a lot of playing room compared to many animals when it comes time to stitch them up -- courtesy of their nice long coat.

Its a Freudian problem, I am sure. Blackies really do vary in size depending on the region. If they are like the deer in TX, they shouldnt be too big. While standard calibers will do, there is nothing like hunting bears with a smoothbore 12ga smoothbore and a 20" tube Besides that, a 45/70 and a 44mag levergun come to mind as "fun". Which is probably why people are using a 375 on a bear that doesnt weigh any more than the local IN Whitetails. There is no rifle hunting here, but if there was, you better bet people would be using full power 375 and 416's on deer. Lots of poeple are willing to pay lots of money to blow the heck out of something. Besides, how ever are they gonna pull off the 500yd. shot across the canyon on a record busting Blackie?

Conrad,
<br>you missed my point I think.
<br>You take your cue from the European Hochsitz shooters,
<br>with your scope choice. The illuminated reticle is a nice option. For our shooting at blackies from a treestand @ 20-40 meters, a 8-10x is way, way too high. You be wondering like the man from Arkansas which part of the black bear you are looking at. I have hunted from hochsitzes in Germany and always marvelled at the highly specialized old fashioned big belled scopes with the humongous crosshairs, good only for that type of hunting. Many now are switching to the 3x9, or 1,75x6 class scopes with illuminated cross hairs. In the hochsitzes I attended, most shooting is done @ 75-100 meter, not 30 meters.
<br>In a treestand handiness and maneuvrability of your gun is important. Treestands are nothing compared to the bed, schnaps and chair equiped hochsitzes in Europe I experienced. In a treestand you are exposed to temperatures of 28-70 degrees F, mosquitos wind and rain. Varying between excruciating and very comfy.
<br>You do get stiff after a number of hours. Getting smoothly and silently in action becomes difficult when you are cold and stiff. The last you need is technology throwing you a curve.
<br>For shooting blackies with a .300 Weatherby with 180 NP bullets that make bullet size exit holes, yes indeed that works if you hit him nice behind the shoulder through the ribs, make sure you do not hit bone though,
<br>you be crying @ the results. High velocity does agravate pelt damage. And again if you like big guns and big bores sure shoot your blackie with it. Why not, it is all about what each individual enjoys.
<br>All I am trying to say is that many seem to believe extra powerfull guns are required to do a clean job on blackies, and that is definitely false. Your .257 to 30-06 range( as will the .44mag, 38-55, 45-70 etc) does a yeomans job for your executioner type 30-40 meter shot on a blackiewith his head in a feeding trough, and much beyond that.

I have found that the reticle does go first. The smaller/finer the crosswires, the faster it goes.
<br> JJ has been extrolling the virtues of the german style 4a reticle from Premier Reticles. I must say mine is not so coarse as to completely blot out an aimiming square @ 100 yds. If it did, I would nest it in the crotch of the crosswire when group shooting. I haven't done much night testing with mine yet. I shall report when I do. E

Shrike, not entirely disagreeing with you, but I'm in a crappy mood and feel the need to hammer on a couple points:
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<br>1) I broke shoulders on two bears with the .300Wby -- one a 180 partition and the other a 220 partition. Both slightly quartering, so through ribs on the on side and smashing shoulders on the off side. 180 didn't exit, though it smashed the off shoulder nicely and interestingly resulted in very little meat damage. The 220 blew through the ball in the shoulder joint and gave a .30 cal exit hole with minimal meat loss and NO GAPING hole in the hide. Yes, this is ONLY two bears w/ the combo, but I've also shot many deer and elk with the Wby at close and far without major exit holes. Quite on the contrary, you simply don't tend to get big exits w/ partitions. I'm sure there are occasional exceptions, but I have a good deal of experience with this combo and frankly you're wrong about it. Other bullets maybe, but not partitions. I put 3 165 gr partitions through my latest bear with no bullets recovered and .30 exits (no heavy bones though). Sorry, off the soapbox.
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<br>2) Not everyone has a vault full of rifles for every occasion. I certainly don't, so LIGHTEN UP! Some of us simply have to use what we've got. Bears (especially 1st timers) tend to be an afterthought, so we grab what works for elk or deer and deal with the limitations. You're providing good information, just lose the attitude. Ok, so now I'm off the soapbox.
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<br>Bears are no longer an afterthought for me and I'm quite hooked on them, soooooo..... it's time for stories of your two bear hunt and some pictures ! Remember, we like details (grin).

Shrike. I guess I could just use my Darton Maverick with a 400 gr arrow at 292 fps and I would be ok. Plus I do have a fiber optic sight too.
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<br>But I would love to use my handgun on a blacky but can't take hanguns into canada if I am remembering correctly.
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<br>I might be all washed up but is a mature blacky only 150 to 200 pounds. I better not go because I wouldn't shoot a blacky that small. What would he be maybe 2 years old. I probable would not even take a shot if that is what the average bear is. I probably don't have a realistic expectation of what a good bear is. I always wanted to go and was thinking going next year but I just better be ready to not shoot because I couldn't kill a bear that small. I thought that a good blacky would push 275 to 300 lbs. that is what I thought would be acceptable to me.
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<br>but anyways my wife says I don't live in reality either LOL. So I guess I will just go and have a good time and not expect to harvest a bear then maybe the Gods will shine on me on one of my bear hunts and grant me a 300+ lb bruin that I will be happy with.
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<br>I would use my 270 wby mag do to my only other rounds I have are a 7 mag and 338 win mag. But I would most likely use my Darton Maverick instead but you never know. That 270 wby might just get picked too.
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<br>Brian

445, I don't think 300 pounds is an unreasonable expectation. Of course, you may go home empty handed (grin). But, that is hunting. Do your homework with outfitters and find one that caters to bow hunters -- some just don't like 'em. You might talk to Big Sky when he gets back at the end of the month. He's been to Canada with several outfitters and can likely give you a good reference.

445 Supermag
<br>Yes, the bulk of blackies here in Alberta are between 150-200 lbs, even for adults.
<br>Now this is how it works. In areas where outfitters operate in a regular basis, such as for 5 years or more and cycling 40-60 hunters/year, along their bait barrels, then the average bear size is becoming pretty small.
<br>It is simple, the dominant large blacks, like the 200 pound spring bear(almost 275lbs in fall) and up get shot away in the first couple years of operation. Those are the pictures you see on the brochures. Not to say that no other big ones move sometimes in and get shot. The vacuum created by removing the dominant bears is frequently occupied by yearlings and other youngsters looking for a territory of their own. However it all depends on the length and intensity of operation, and of course on the quality of the bear habitat. Now there are outfitters and outfitters. Some take pride in their work really manage their territories well, and are in it for the long haul, Those guys may not let you shoot a second bear. Others are their for the bucks only, milk it for all they can, by cycling large numbers of hunters through the bait barrels, allow customers to shoot little yearlings, then pull out when the area gets exhausted, and repeat customers do not show up anymore.
<br>So, word of mouth is an important mechanisme for checking quality of hunts.
<br>Also, areas with lots of public pressure deliver fewer large bears.
<br>So, your dream of a real big bear like a 250- 300 pounder is not entirely unrealistic.
<br>Check outfitter references real well, and make sure they are recent. Ask for 2-3 that did not get a bear.
<br>Some places in Northern Alberta, Yukon and I hear more and more about Vancouver Island have still a fine supply of big bears. Also do point out right from the begining to your outfitter that it is going to be 300 pounds or nothing. How confident is he about the probability of showing one to you? Do not mutter that less will be acceptable because then you will be quickly slotted in the small bear requirement. Remember you pay big big bucks for your experience so make your requirements clear. Ask for guidance regarding clothing and equipment.
<br>Yes, a handgun would be a fabulous way to hunt blackies over bait barrels. However handgun hunting is forbidden in the Socialist peoples republic of Canuck land, as you already know. Your bow set up should be great for blackies over bait barrels too, A very sporting and popular way to hunt blackies over bait.
<br>Your .270 Weatherby or 7mm Mag. with premium bullets be fine for spot and stalk on Vancouver Island in the clearcuts, where sometimes a long shot comes in. I say premium bullets, as their controlled expansion does less fur damage, and @ longer range they have lost some of the initial high velocity. Do not over scope!!!!!! Make sure that you have a low setting such as 2 or no more then 3x. At short distance, a quick target acquisition is all important. Make sure you can shoot the gun offhand reasonable quick and accurate. That often is the only chance you get with spot and stalk. At short range your trophy of a lifetime will try to get out of there quickly once he is recovered from his initial surprise, and that is usually quick. And in the rolling terrain it is short seconds, less then 5. He aint waiting around for you looking for a gun rest, scope cap removal, chambering noisily a round, and a tedious search in the high power scope to find him and then in particular his shoulder, hart and lungs. Do not laugh it happens very, very often that way.
<br>He be gone and you frustrated. Remember you pay big bucks for this hunt, do not handicap yourself with excess technology, and lack of practical rifle skills!!! Also make sure that you can carry the rifle comfortably for spot and stalk hunts. No hunter needs a scope larger then 9X. I regard the 2X8, 1.5x5, 2x7 and 1.75X6 as the best al round scope sizes for hunting big game. Most bears are shot at well below 100 yards even in spot and stalk due to the rolling terrain.
<br>Your outfitter has a spotting scope to evaluate your trophy, so you do not need that 10 or 14x scope on your rifle. Also @ 300 yards and over, wind doping is more of a problem then bullet drop. Do not forget that a wounded and lost bear is regarded as a shot bear and will be deducted from your licence, and in a 0ne bear area it means the end of your hunt. Think about that when there is talk of sniping @ 400 yard blackies!!
<br>Your .338 Win. if you can shoot it with confidence and skill that means also off hand, is a great killer on game and the usually harder bullets @ moderate velocity, do not expand so violently, give tidy entrance/exit holes and for that reason do not rip your trophy to shreds.
<br>Also, no matter what you shoot, it is bullet placement and bullet placement that counts. If you have a .308, 270 or 30-06 class rifle take it along as a spare, you may find it very usefull too.
<br>You need not be a crackshot to be consistently successfull in the field. You need to be confident in your shooting ability. Be able to shoot 4- 6 inch groups consistently , offhand @ 100 yards. Be able on sighting the animal to lift your gun without hesistation, slide the safety off all in one smooth move and fire a well aimed shot in less then 4-5 seconds. Try sitting, standing and if you are limber enough squatting. Go for timed practise. This will get you game on the table. Be confident and thoroughly familiar with the trajectory of your one chosen hunting load. Be able to get an accurate shot off from a rest or sitting at distances over 125-200 yards and from a stable rest up to 300 yards. Anyway, as a bow hunter you are fully aware I guess of practise drills!!! I use a cheap little .308 with hardball for this drill practise. I am not a crackshot, but I am fast and consistent, accurate enough ( 5-6 inch @100 yards standing) and know my field limitations with my rifles.
<br>Hope my comment are of help to you.
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shrike great advice, thanks for taking the time to write it. I hope to go this next year i hope.
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<br>Brian

So shrike what do think of this setup for black bear hunting over bait.
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<br>A Remington 700 Classic in 35 Whelen with a Bausch and Lomb 3000 scope. The scope is a 1.5-6X42 with a 30mm tube and the heavy German #4 reticle.
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<br>For a bullet I'm thinking a Hornady 250gr round nose at say 2350fps.

I have to agree with Muley Stalker here. I, for one, don't have a gun safe full of guns; heck, I don't even have a gun safe(I might be poor, who knows), and I only have two big game rifles, and as of right now, I'm only comfortable and confident in one -- and that's my .338 Win. Mag. My other gun, which is new, or well, new to me, is my .375 H&H. I've only shot it twice, but it won't go hunting with me until I have enough rounds through it and where I feel "comfortable" with it, and that means accuracy wise. I can handle the recoil just fine.
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<br>Though, I have a Marlin .44 Rem. Mag. that I could probably take hunting, but I won't. I took it hunting for moose on one trip last year, and the POS jammed on me while cycling the gun. Had to use my friend's .300 Win. Mag. to drop the bull moose that I stalked for three hours on opening day. Thankfully, a bolt action saved the day.

All right, being an outfitter that deals with a fair amount of bear hunters I will give it to you from my perspective and experience. What ever you show up with, shoot it well, and please shoot it a bunch before you show up. Take the bugger out and sight it in from the bench, and then SHOOT IT standing up, sitting down with OUT a rest, and at different angles. I have never been fortunate enough to shoot an animal from a bench with the exception of some dog hunting.
<br> As far as scopes go this is one of the things I harp to hunteres about. Don't bring a 6.5X20 or 4X14 to hunt black bears from a tree stand!!!! ARGGGGGGGG!! At 12 yards all you're gonna see is hair!!! NOT GOOD!!! When some shows up with this I reccomend pulling the scope if the rifle is equipted with iron sites.
<br> I had one hunter make a great kill shot (he was 12 years old) with a 7mm-08 and another taken with a 30-30, but Mags and big bores are fun, just shoot it well. Most of the bears taken were with archery equiptment in camp this year anyway. I understand that not everyone has time to shoot 20 rounds a week, but try to get in a few rounds at the range, or sling a few arrows each night. Happy hunting, Casey

6.5x55,
<br>Your set-up sounds T-Bone perfect to me.
<br>Make sure you be smack on target @ 30-50 yards.
<br>Your bullet choice will spoil very little fur.

This post pretty much answers all my questions about a spring Manitoba blackie hunt I have coming up.
<br> I was planning to use my favorite rifle, a Ruger in 308 Win., loaded with 165 to 180gr. Partitions, topped with a Bausch and Lomb 3000 3x9x40. If left on 3x this sounds like it should work.
<br> Anyone think of a better combo to shoot, I also have a 7mm Rem. Mag., if this would be a better choice.-KT28

KT28, yes your Ruger .308 with Nosler Partition 165/180 and scope on 3x should do the trick just fine.
<br>The .308 is one hell of a fine choice for your set up.
<br>The .308 with that loading is one hell of a fine big game cartridge for much bigger game then blackies.
<br>I would prefer the .308 over the 7mm Rem. when sitting over bait. Chances are that at the short range with the 7mm Mag., you could blow one hell of a big hole in your blackie. Totally uncalled for unless you only own a 7mm Rem Mag. Remember a blackie is not an Alaska Brown bear.
<br>Sight in @ 50 yards for this hunt sothat in the dawn/dusk situations agravated by the spruce canopy, you do not have to think about any corrections. Just put the cross hairs where the bullet is supposed to go and let fly. I pontificated earlier on hunters with rifles sighted in for long range shooting and then in the half dark and excitement forget about the high trajectory and overshoot their bear, either creasing them or plainly missing them. It is one of the most frequent complaints heard at the bear camps campfires. Remember when there is blood, your tag is finished whether you find your bear or not. Another frequent occurence and complaint is buck fever paired with cold induced stiffness. If the outfitter puts you in one of those cheaper tree stands without arm rest, try a stick braced between your boots and knees. It does wonders for shooting stability when cold/stiff and excited.
<br>Take note of your bullet drop @ 100 and 200 yards, incase you have an opportunity to shoot one on the way to or from your stand. That would be quite unusual though.

Generally, with a scoped hunting rifle in the 308 Win class, sighted at 100 yards is also sighted at 50 yards (+-.1 inch).
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<br>Sighted at 200 yards the rifle will be about 1 inch high at 50 yards.