Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Berger VLD bullets: differences between Target and Hunting?

I'm sure that this has been covered before, but I was not paying attention.

What is the difference between Berger VLD bullets in Target and Hunting configurations?

Do the Target VLD work well for hunting purposes?

Jacket thickness. The jacket in the Target line is thicker by 3 or 4 thousandths, if I remember correctly. mtmuley mtmuley

The jacket on the target model is tougher. They will kill big game but expansion isn'tg nearly as violent as with the Hunting VLD.

Some people prefer the target model for hunting, for less meat destruction. But unless you aim to take out the far shoulder with the hunting model, meat loss is minimal, since they don't wreck meat around the entrance would like most bullets. Instead they punch about a 2" hole that's often hard to find, its so small, before expanding.

They can shoot up a far shoulder, but only if they reach it. Sometimes they won't, since they come apart inside the chest, where the vital organs are--and if they do reach the far shoulder they've slowed down considerably.

Since the Hunting VLD's do so much inner destruction, you can also place them further behind the shoulder and still get a very quick kill. The last animal I shot with one was a pronghorn buck at 160-some yards, using a 140 from a 6.5-06 started at just under 3000 fps. The buck was quartering toward me very slightly, almost broadside, and I put the bullet about 4" behind the shoulder. He went down within 20-30 feet, before I could get another round in the chamber. There was a pencil sized hole at the entrance, and a 2" exit hole on the far side. Total loss was maybe an ounce of rib meat, but inside the chest cavity was soup.

That's the performance I'm hoping for (keep the meat, no blow up on entry, and mush the organs).

Of course, most of the VLDs that I would like to run are listed as Target models rather than Hunting.

Which ones are you interested in?

Do you have any experience with hitting the near shoulder?

Just curious what kind of meat damage would be associated with such a hit.

As noted earlier in one my posts on this thread, they tend to punch a tiny hole on entry, with no blood shot meat round it, for a couple of inches. That also tends to be true when they hit thin bone. Heavier bone tends to fragment and can cause some damage, but generally it isn't anything like the damage from a typical expanding bullet, because they start to expand almost immediately on impact.

The 168 grain hunting VLD has worked well on largish hogs for a friend, and he's shot them from several angles. These were fired from a mid-speed 308 load that approximates 168 gr. LC Match ammo. Like you've mentioned, finding the entrance holes required some looking. They did blow out chunks of spine and/or wreck off side shoulders though.

Partly because of these results, and partly because I like the way the loaded cartridges look (looney?), I put together a load with these same 168's for my 300 Savage. They're a little long for a '99 though, 2.735", but they fit my 700 Classic just right. They shoot just right too, five at 100 yards easily covered by a dime and three at 300 into 1.1" c-t-c, all guided via a 6x scope. Load development over.

"three at 300 into 1.1" c-t-c, all guided via a 6x scope. Load development over"

I'd say so...

Deliberately targeted a young mule deer buck in the near side shoulder blade at 175 yards a couple of years ago. The .25 cal, 115 gr hunting VLD went through that shoulder, hammered his lungs and came to rest just under the off-side skin. The off-side was bloodshot about the same as I've seen with other bullets. The on-side shoulder blade just had a small hole poked through. The buck collapsed at the hit and only slid downhill a few feet. Thankfully.

Guy

FYI,

Last week I measured the bearing surface of several 130 gr 6.5mm Target and Hunting VLD's and the Target version was .023" longer.

Alan

I'd say that's nothing more than lot to lot variation......

Nope, I've measured different lots before. The Target versions, at least in this particular bullet, have a longer bearing surface. And it has effected my ability to find a load quickly. This past Spring, when I was running out of the Hunting version I swapped over to the Target version and had to run my seating depth test all over again.

Alan

Not to be argumentative, but.....

I just measured 6 different lots of 6mm VLD's from base to ogive with my Davidson comparator:

1.305"
1.310"
1.315"
1.335"
1.345"

Them I measured two lots of 6.5 140 VLD's:

1.420"
1.460"

Any bullet out there, not just VLD's, can have a huge difference between lot numbers. If you're seating bullets into or close to the lands, you need to check every new box for seating depth if it's a different lot number.

I found that they shoot differently in my rifle for some reason. I had worked up a nice load for 168 grain in my 284 Winchester with the match bullet. When I switched to the hunting version they didn't shoot nearly as well. I'm probably doing something wrong, just haven't figured that out yet. I plan on using it on whitetail. Maybe I should just go back to the target version????

Hey aalf,

Same here. No argument. Question: Did you use two comparators to measure in from the front, over the ogive, and one to measure in from the back, over the boat tail? That's how I do it.

Alan

No, as I said, my measurements were base to ogive, not true bearing surface length like you measure.

My point is/was that every lot number, whether varmint or target, can have enough variation that seating depths need to be confirmed before seating any new lot number of bullets.

My passion is 1K BR, so anything I can do to shrink groups is tried. I use to weight sort my bullets, but stopped that this year, as I didn't see where it helped. I don't sort at all any more.

Two things that I believe helped me the most this year is a good powder measure and tipping bullets.......

aalf
dont shoot matches but find it interesting. What is tipping bullets? A modification to each one to uniform?

There's 3 or 4 brands, but I went with this one:

www.whiddengunworks.net/pointingdie.html

I bought the meplat trimmer also...did a few...then sold it.

Now I just point.

Good to hear from you, aalf.

One question. I see that the point die reduces the meplat considerably and trues it. I can appreciate how that may have some effect at 1K. But, I remember seeing tests where lead tipped bullets that were battered and somewhat misshaped shot about as well as fresh out of the box bullets with perfect tips.

Is it a difference with the tipping that one notices at very long ranges and not so much at 100 yds.?

DF

I see almost 1 MOA difference between tipped and untipped at 1K.

As to closer ranges, it's still an advantage, but to a lesser degree. If it's around a 10 percent gain, that'd be 10 percent across the board, point blank to infinity.

Under 500 I wouldn't bother. Even a boatail doesn't really enter the picture till 400......