Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns ...a few bullets tests...

Reviving this thread to add my own findings from a .380 test I performed a few days ago. I was shooting Remington's 102 gr Golden Saber hollow point and Fiocci round nose FMJ.

The Golden Saber chronied 840 fps from my Keltec P3AT and penetrated into the 4th milk carton, cracking the cardboard on the back side of the 4th carton and nearly entering the 5th carton, cracking the face of that carton also for a total of 15+ inches of penetration. Bullet was recovered in the 4th carton and looked picture perfect and even though the core slipped, it is still firmly attached to the jacket.

The set-up. I added more cartons after taking the pic and before shooting.







The Fiocci FMJ chronied 844 fps and penetrated fully through 6 cartons before sailing off into the sweet by and by, never to be found.

In summary, I'd much rather be packing my .40 S&W, but when I can only carry my Keltec, I feel a bit better knowing the Golden Sabers in the magazine performed quite well, IMO.

I'm curious of the hypothesis of your experiment, especially since shooters & hunters don't shoot into water.

This thread, did you read it, by any chance? This thread was started by another member who used water as his test media, as many shooters do because it's readily available and inexpensive. My addition to the thread is relevant because I used the same test parameters -water, and a similar caliber and gun to testing done earlier in this thread.

Nowhere did I imply that my test were comparable to the way the bullet would perfom on living tissue and I don't believe the creator of this thread did, either.

How would the loads I tested perform on a living creature? I can't say, but I can claim that it would likely perform about as well or better than the other .380 loads tested by comparing the penetration and expansion results of all .380 loads tested.

Thanks for adding to this... I was hoping to do more tests this year but I am about to leave for a long trip to Idaho and won't be back till it's cold...

Bob

dang was hoping to see the results of the 10mm myself


oh well patience has its own rewards I reckon.

interesting thread, thanks so much for sharing with us

have a great time in Idaho

Hi bruinruin,

I've never mentioned flesh wound predictability. I was thinking along the lines of penetration of practical media.

I am not sure of inferential predicability of water as a test medium.

A good idea might be to buy an intact car door from a junk yard, take it to a suitable location, and fire rounds through it. I have also seen photos of wounds, both of survivors and those on pathologists' tables. Handguns are not best for saving one's life, but they are most practical. Handgun stopping power is a gun magazine myth. It might not be wise to rely upon a myth.

For handguns to work at their optimum, deep penetration is crucial. In fact, I'd prefer through-and-through wounds. If the CNS ain't hit, you gotta get the bad guy's blood pressure to zero posthaste. And if a bad guy is on myth or PCP, just about everything we know is out the window. I know of a cop who shot a bad guy 6 times in his chest with the ultimate man stopper, a .357 Mag. The bad guy was trying to rack a police shotgun. Six .357 Mag rounds to his chest didn't cause him to flinch. However, when my friend fired one 870 round to the bad guy's chest, he became property of the coroner.

I have witnessed many penetration tests, including cars as media. But for non-law enforcement, shooting through cars assuredly has little application. However, one might have to shoot through a refrigerator.

In the very rare occasions when I carry a handgun for self-defense, it's loaded with heavy-for-caliber bullets; e.g., 180 grain LE .40 S&W rounds. A bullet performs a lot better if it penetrates, and heavy-for-caliber bullets usually penetrate deepest. And I don't like frangible bullets. I like, heavy, well-constructed bullets that remain intact with as close to 100% weight retention as possible. I use lighter bullets for only target practice.

+1 from here, on all accounts. Enjoy Idaho!

Since I submitted my hot rod 10mm loads for testing, I managed to do a little non scientific testing and learned that a 10mm/40 cal 180gr Gold Dot launched at 1375fps will blow a BIG hole through both sides of the chest cavity of a good sized Tennesee hog and cause the bark from the tree behind said hog to splatter far and wide with lots of remaining energy to do more damage. On a wounded but down hog, I learned that a shot to the forehead will blow out absolutely 100% of the brain matter out the entry hole wound and out the ear canals, then go deep into said hogs neck. Said hog quits wiggling after that encounter.

I burned my left leg really bad one week ago so have had to wear shorts all week, and it has been really hot as in over 100 degrees so did not wish to wear a cover garment while running around. So for this week my 1911 10mm and 329PD stayed home and my own P3AT (wonderful little hideout pistol) packed with four Buff Bore 100gr FN Hardcast at 1125 - as per the tests above - and three Buff Bore 90gr HP's wich chrono at over 1200fps from my "mouse gun", alterating the loads with the 100's being first and last up.

I love and usually pack either my full sized 10 or 44, but I sure as heck did not feel unarmed with my P3AT, those loads aboard!

A lesson here, maybe, about trying for a brain pan shot if pistol pill #1 or perhaps #2 do not incapacitate our bad guy. Such a need is why I insist on good sights on my handguns (P3AT the only exception) and practice the chest/head drill at the range.

IF one is confronted with a turbo bad guy wearing armour, one might only have the head or hip joints to shoot at. I am told that the center of the pelvis/hips area will put a man down really quick, meth or no. But I do not know this. Sounds right as if a persons upright standing support systems go off line, down would be the natural consequence? I am also told that such a hit is VERY painful, perhaps penetrating through even the Methamphetamine fog. Again, I do not know, only have heard and read this once or twice.

As soon as my leg injury heals, (NO driving or pistol handling while on Dilauted!) I might add my own milk carton tests to this thread with my other two carry pieces i.e. the 329PD and 1911 in 10mm.

I think that anyone who takes the time to do some similar testing should post it, and be thanked for so doing.

BruinRuin, THANK YOU for the Golden Sabre 380 tests! We have some of those around, and might have to add them to the mix. I also have some 180gr Golden Sabre 10mm bullets to load up and try, might have to add that to my reports here, soon.

This is where I stand, nothing has been proven at all for people or animals. For most, if you were at my back, I would say "forget it".
Useless testing from the start.

Bone is like shooting a rock, breaks fragile bullets. Lungs contain more air then water or blood. To stop a bullet in a second jug with broken parts, I can tell you how far that will get you.

I disagree. I have never seen a bone that was as hard or dense as a good solid rock.

I am in your camp as far as penetration being a key for the best and uniform results, but if one can get exit wound i.e. two holes penetration with an EXPANDING bullet, so much the better!

I load medium-heavy HP bullets in my 44 Mag and 10mm, because they are known to be able to expand and still penetrate well on two legged targets AND large big game. With my 380, the first and last load up have been proven to penetrate 24 inches of ballistic Gel and about as many water filled jugs or cartons as you want to put in front of them. The 380 needs the penetration help from the hardcast, overweight flat point bullets and +P+ loadings, the 44 Magnum and 10mm do not.

i am going with JWP here as i usually do. But broken bullets or boolits are not where you want to be.
Penetration alone is not enough and can fail as bad as a stopped bullet. Hunting is not like shooting a creep robbing you, Get it out of the way. So many try to equal that but it is just not the same. Some of the tests show a bullet will not get through a heavy coat and then go through a creep.
A HP in the .44 is not needed as it will limit penetration.
but a softer nose is needed in other calibers like smaller, the .357, but half the deer shot with it can be lost. fact, documented. light bullet with a fast stop. Energy dump junk.
Just read about a creep shot 7 times with a nine and survived. real bastard of a gun, just a tinker toy in the end.
Shoot jugs of water, better blow 4 to the moon and never catch the boolit for hunting.
Stop comparing creep shooting to deer or animals of any kind. A deer can go 200 yards with s shot that will put a man on the ground right now.
How do you make a .380 better? take it to .500.

Had some time today and it was actually a beautiful 50* day here is sunny NH...

Test 25:
S&W 657
4" .41 Magnum

Handload:
190 grain Mihec HPWC
8.0 grains of Unique
1302 fps

Blew apart carton, split first jug, front cone of bullet found in the first and second jug and the base of the bullet in the third.









Test 26:
S&W 657
4" .41 Magnum

Handload:
169 grain Mihec cast HP
14.0 grains Blue Dot

Blue carton apart, split jug #1, pieces in #2 and rcoverd the base in #3.







[img]http://i17.photobucket.com/alb...ts/20141226_184007_zpsaac2054d.jpg[/img]




Test 27:
S&W 657
4" .41 Magnum

Handload:
170 grain Mihec Cast small penta-point
14.0 grains Blue Dot
1337 fps

Blew up carton, blew large hole in Jug #1 and went through 2 & 3..found stopped against the vest.

[img]http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b77/RJM52/Bullet%20Tests/007_zpsdcbab635.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b77/RJM52/Bullet%20Tests/008_zps2c86ecd7.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b77/RJM52/Bullet%20Tests/009_zps68a9212c.jpg[/img]

Test 28:
S&W 657
4" .41 Magnum

180 grain C.O.P. (Copper Only Projectiles)
1018 fps (very mild recoil)

Blew up container and complete bullet was found in jug #3







(this is the round I have been carrying in the 357 Night Guard and 4" Taurus TiTracker)



Test 29:
S&W 657
4" .41 Magnum

Handload:
205 grain Accurate #215V cast bullet .37 meplat
8.0 grains of Unique
962 fps

Split open carton, cut a round hole through all three jugs, cut hole in vest carrier and was found in the vest between the carrier and the kevlar...





...you could reload it....

Test 30:
S&W 357 Night Guard
2.5" .41 Magnum

180 grain C.O.P.
1067 fps

Actually shot faster than the earlier test from the 4" 657. The bullet split open the carton, went through all three jugs and was found resting between jug #3 and the vest. Two of the five petals failed to open.
















At this point I had run out of jugs and just one paper carton left. So I set it up with the vest insert (Class II) wrapped around it with an empty jug holding it in place. Besides the penta-point and HP 170+- grain Mihec cast bullets I found I had a few of the solids that were right about 180 grains. So I loaded up a 657 3" and shot the carton....I didn't recover the bullet however...

[img]http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b77/RJM52/Bullet%20Tests/022_zpscca480c3.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b77/RJM52/Bullet%20Tests/023_zps64184768.jpg[/img]

...little too much penetration....

Mark...I ddin't have access to a 10mm or would have run your rounds...

Bob

Some tests with .45 and 9mm Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman rounds...

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...falo_Bore_.45_ACP_+P_255_Gr#Post10269240

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...falo_Bore_9mm_147_Grain_+P_#Post10269292