Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Backpack Hunting Anyone using pack goats?

Been away for awhile...just saw this thread. I own 7 goats, 6 are wethers and one doe for breeding. We have used them for the past several years and they work well for me. With all of mine, I got them young and bottle fed them.

Looks like you have gotten some good info so far. I have used Rex's gear from Northwest PackGoats. Very honest guy. Also, I have gotten permission from John Mionczynski (who started goatpacking 40 years ago) to produce his pannier and saddle designs, and we will be selling them through NW PackGoats in the future. The panniers are capable of carrying tents and fly rods, I like them a lot. The saddles "Wind River" have leather straps and fit great.

Goats can be great companions out in the wilderness. Be cautious on who you buy yours from. My first two were duds.

Do any of you pack goat users ever have the Fish & Game get on you about the threat of spreading disease to bighorn sheep?

There was a few guys who used to pack into Hells Canyon which has a good herd of bighorns and the F & G guys were not happy about it.

Just curious if there was any issues. I never thought it was much of a threat myself, I found it hard to think that wild sheep were going to come into a camp to rub noses with goats...

There are those who want to make it an issue, but they have no scientific evidence to back their claims. I would be more concerned about domestic sheep than a handful of packgoats that are healthy. The issue is more political than anything, in my opinion. There are bigger threats to Bighorn Sheep.

I have been the the Land Use Committee Chairman for the NAPgA (North American Packgoat Association) for the last two years, and have been working closely with the USFS in Wyoming about packgoats and Bighorn Sheep. The USFS is currently revising their EIS and their Forest plan, and we are trying to have them implement management practices for packgoats, rather than issuing an all out BAN.

Kinda like,"let's ban handguns so we can stop the murders..."

Like that is REALLY gonna happen....Sheesh.

There is scientific evidence that domestic goats pass pneumonia to wild sheep. Dr. Sri with WSU has conducted extensive studies linking the transmission of pneumonia from domestic sheep and goats to wild sheep. One of the last pneumonia outbreaks in Hells Canyon was due to domestic goats.
Sheep and Goat Management

Your link is an interpretation...not the actual peer reviewed scientific documents. I have the actual scientific peer reviewed documents concerning the Hells Canyon die-off, and PackGoats are not the culprit. Game And Fish Departments are quick to lump domestic goats and domestic sheep together when discussing disease transmission, which should not be done, neither should "brush goats" and PackGoats be considered the same.

There is only one peer reviewed scientific document (Foreyt, 1994 study) that commingled domestic goats with Bighorn Sheep, and the BH sheep remained clinically healthy. That is the only one.

However, there are plenty of peer reviewed scientific documents that show that domestic sheep are transmitting fatal diseases when permitting nose to nose contact with the BH sheep. Not so with PackGoats.

I do advocate spacial separation between the two species, such as highling at night in sensitive areas, and putting GPS collars on PackGoats in sensitive areas.

Why are States still issuing permits to kill Bighorn Sheep if they are struggling to stay alive in the wild? Is the revenue generated from the sale of these permits more important than maintaining healthy herd populations?

Instead of picking on PackGoats, why not do a risk assessment on the impact on wolves and bears and cougars in regards to the Bighorn Sheep herds?

As I mentioned earlier, I am strongly in favor of implementing strict management practices when taking PackGoats into the Forest.

The majority of bighorn sheep decline is due to disease, not predator issues.

There have been several die offs in Hells Canyon and goats were responsible for one of the last bad ones.

20+ state and federal agencies and wildlife biologists believe that goats transmit diseases to wild sheep.

That is simply not true at all, and would like to challenge you to prove it.

Too bad they are biased and misinformed...

The scientists at the Cain Vet Center and at WSU don't feel that way.

It is true. Here's a report from Idaho F&G's biologist for wild sheep in Hells Canyon.


IDF&G Hells Canyon Biologist Report

I was at Dr. Sri's facility at WSU this year. He seems to think domestic goats spread disease to wild sheep.

Still no proof. Show me peer reviewed scientific evidence, instead of opinions. You cannot, because none exists for domestic goats. Can PackGoats be carriers? Yes. That is why we suggest strict management practices while using PackGoats.

You are spreading lies, my friend. So far you have not been able to provide evidence from peer reviewed scientific articles which typically are on file at the Website, Journal of Wildlife Diseases.

If you are going to name drop, I can do the same. Dr. Foreyt says there is no evidence to make a stand against PackGoats. There is with domestic sheep, but not goats.

Please quit spreading rumors that are false.

What is your interest? Please reveal who you are and why you are taking the stand that you are taking please.

Pack goats have had my interest for several years now.. I have thought about getting a couple but haven't really looked that much into it.. I have a question for those that have them..

Where I live there could be snow on the ground for up to 2-3 weeks from late November to February and get down to the low 20's..

Can they live in this environment?

I offer the recommendation of the Western Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies (20+ state and federal agencies) and you say it's biased. They're the wildlife experts. The article cited over 70+ literature, most of it peer reviewed. Dr. Foreyt was cited 6 times including an article in 2009 about the trasmission of lungworms from domestic goats to wild sheep. I show you a report by a IDF&G wildlife biologist who works in Hells Canyon reporting goats spreading disease and you say it's biased. She's an expert on wild sheep and disease transmision.

You mention one report but you've provided no link to it? I've provided evidence, you haven't.

Goats spread disease to wild sheep. If you were a responsible conservationist, you'd head the warning of the experts and keep your goats out of wild sheep country.

The organisms that created the big die-off in Hells Canyon were different than what the feral goat possessed, dude. Read the three Rudolph papers on it. They are the peer reviewed documents.

I am familiar with the WAFWA documents that you speak of.

Our little pissing match is going nowhere, if you didn't notice. I advocate strict management restrictions in BH Sheep areas, not a total BAN. That is stupid and totally political. Then why don't we ban horses if they have pink-eye? What about hunters if they have pink-eye? What about cows? They can be carriers as well.

You reference biologists that work for the state, I reference scientists.

I am done arguing and will no longer respond to your posts. You still have not revealed who you are and who you represent so you are a waste of time.

I am in total agreement to keeping brush goats and domestic sheep (thousands) out of BH Sheep country. But a handful of packgoats with GPS collars? GIVE ME A BREAK. The ban is politically motivated, pardner.

Absolutely. I live in Northern Utah and have snow from December to April, typically. My friend in Pinedale Wyoming has snow and cold alot longer than that.

Just make sure that you have an enclosure for them with straw, so they can get out of the wind and rain or snow. And they need to have plenty of feed.

Vigilguy thanks.. I might have to give this some serious thought I have had horses before, are they any where near the work and upkeep as horses or do you have to constantly work with them to keep them from getting sour/rank ?

I have not owned horses, so I cannot relate with what you are talking about here. PackGoats are a working animal, and should be taken out weekly for hiking. I trim their hooves every 3 months or so, as required, worm them regularly, along with CDT shots. I feed grass hay once a day, each goat requires about 1/2 a small bale per week. They are wonderful pack animals and have incredible eyesight. My adult goats can carry 40 to 60 lbs of gear each. They don't tear up trails like horses can, and their droppings are similar to deer droppings. One must be careful when highlining at night, because they can rub the bark off of trees if they have horns. So I high line them in such a way that they cannot reach the bark. Goats are browsers, so I don't need to take along feed. I no longer hunt big game, but I do fly fish and am able to venture deep in the remote backcountry and I only carry a day pack.