Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Average expected out of box accuracy?

I know that each rifle varies in accuracy, but I was wondering if I could get some experienced opinions from some guys that deal with a lot of different firearms. What kind of accuracy can I expect out of most of the major factory rifles including but not limited to Remington, Winchester, Browning, Ruger, Savage, Sako, Weatherby, Etc... I know that there is no guarantee when buying a new rifle but I was just wondering what is the average for todays new rifles. I am curious about 30 caliber and below as I know the larger bores will normally produce larger groups. Thanks, RYAN

Ryan,
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<br>With proper factory ammo, I have seen el-cheapo Rem ADL synthetics keep under moa. With good handloads (inclues a lot of careful brass prep), Rem 700 Senderos will go under 1/2 inch. I shot a Howa in 30-06 the other day, a bone stock factory rifle. I put three into an inch at 100 yds and a MV of 2900 fps with Federal ammo loaded with 165 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips. I achieved the same thing with a low, low-end Savage in 30-06 a few years ago.
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<br>Having said all that..........A typical factory hunting rifle--30 cal or less, properly bedded and crowned, should average MOA with the right factory ammo. With proper handloads--loaded with hunting bullets--you can get that down to .7. Realize I'm talking averages, and my experience is mainly with Rem 700s.
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<br>If you shoot enough 3-shot groups and average them you'll not find to many big game rifles shooting hunting bullets that will consistently average under .7 moa. Those same rifles will ocassionally shoot a sub 1/2" group, but day-in and day-out performance will average in the .7 moa range. Custom built, fully accurized rifles may better that a little as will the heavy barreled factory jobs (like the Sendero).
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<br>I use the ".7 moa" rule as a yardstick for my over 30 caliber "accurized" rifles. If they will AVERAGE .7 with hunting bullets, then I'm happy. I like my under 30 cals to shoot a little better than that. I expect my 6mm Rem Varmint rifle to be close to 1/4," but I have yet to start loading for it. Here I am talking of fully accurized, carefully built rifles with premium barrels and careful handloads.
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<br>Now there are many that will claim they have a 1/2" factory rifle. I used to be that way myself. However, that claim is typically based on the best group the rifle has shot, not the average. Crud, my custom 416 Rem has shot a .271" group, but the average is around .7. My Custom 338 Ultra shot a sub 1/4" group one day, but on the average it shoots .7. One again, this is a hunting rifle using hunting bullets.
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<br>No doubt I could get my 30-06 to average 1/2 moa if I used neck turned brass and Sierra Matchking bullets. However, I really am not intersted in how well my hunting rifles shoot match bullets. Match rifles are a different story.
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<br>Blaine

i have experience w/ savage and remington...hopefully somebody else can help ya out w/ the other brands.
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<br>my remingtons outshoot my savages consistently, now, but i don't have any rifles that haven't had 'something' done to them. either one usually comes out shooting near 1.5" at 100.
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<br>i had another bad experience w/ savage... 2 rifles, 2 stocks cracked...starting at mag well, runs all the way back to the front of trigger relief.
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<br>i used to be the biggest proponent of savage rifles there was since they seemed to shoot about as well as my rems for less money. i don't have the time or patience for the hassle, though, and after 2 savages and 2 cracked stocks (one had fewer than 20 shots through it - a 223 of all things), color me a remington buyer.
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<br>to answer your question though, i believe they all shoot roughly the same out of the box...

I'll second the statement about the Rem Sendero. My.338 Win 70 needs a better barrel to go < 1.5 MOA (it's presently being rebarelled with a Lothar Walther). My best experiences, out-of-the-box, came with :
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<br>Sauer 202 (4 rifles, average.) : <MOA (factory) - .5 MOA (handloads)
<br>Blaser R93 (5 rifles, aver.) : MOA (factory) - <MOA (handloads)

My experience is not the same as Blaine's. The average sporter weight rifle, with a scope, will often run anywhere from 1.5-3.0 inches at 100 yds. with factory ammo. Apparently, this is common.
<br> Gun Tests magazine apparently has found the same thing.
<br> Having said that, I'll say that I don't recall a factory rifle that would not shoot under 2 inches with at least one load, and often 1.5 inches or better. With premium ammo, some of them will shoot under 1.0 inches @ 100 yds. without being tuned. The only exceptions are those with bedding problems, bad chambers, bad crowns, etc. Those, of course, can be down right awful.
<br> Tuning is simple. Check the crown. If it looks rough, or catches patch fibers, have it redone.
<br> Glass bed the action. Free float the barrel, if you plan to use a sling. Do, or have done, the trigger.
<br> Make sure the scope is mounted properly, and the action screws are set right, particularly on Ruger and Winchester rifles.
<br> With handloads, one inch @ 100 yds. should not be a problem, even with premium bullets. The only exception might be the Barnes X bullets.
<br> But even my M70 Featherweight, which has never impressed me that much, will shoot one load, with the Combined Tech Fail Safes, and two loads with the Barnes 168 gr. XLC into 1.3 inches.
<br> The other point is that you really don't have to have MOA accuracy unless your into shooting big critters at better than 300-400 yds. E

Im with E. In my experience, the average sporting rifle will usually be between 1.5-2.5 MOA from the factory. Most heavy barreled rigs will shoot between .7-1.5 or so MOA.
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<br>The only rifles that I would worry about a multiple shot group is a battle rifle or a rifle that I am going to target shoot with.
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<br>For any rifle that is going to be used as a hunting rifle, excluding varmint rigs, multiple shot groups dont mean squat. If a gun will put the bullet in the 10 ring with the first shot, every time, I dont worry about it. When I am using a factory rifle, I might put in a Timney, or try the old tin foil under the barrel, and mess with the action screws to get optimal performance, but I dont put forth the money that some do. Not putting anyone down. I am simply talking about the rifle as a tool. If I am driving to work, I dont need a '71 Cuda, but if you wanna put in the effort and the money, go for it.
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<br>The only reason I bring this up is for newbies who may be dismayed by their guns inability to shoot Sub-MOA or MOA, but who have a reliable, effective hunting tool.

Ryan,
<br>I have owned mostly Remington's but have also owned Weatherby, Ruger and Browning over the years I have found that right out of the box most will shoot 1.5 to 2.0 inch groups at 100. SOME will be moa with the right load. I have found that by simply adjusting the trigger and using good handloads most will settle in at 1.0 to 1.5 inch groups. The guns I'm talking about are all regular weight hunting rifles in big game calibers but under 30 caliber as you suggested. A recent favorite a Remington stainless with detachable magazine in 270 has really been a surprise with 2.70 inch average groups at 300 and will shoot into .6 to.8 at 100 all day.
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<br>A heavy barreled varmint rig will (should) do much better currently working with a Browning heavy barreled 22-250 that will shoot into a half inch, with handloads. Nothing other then adjusting the trigger was done to this rifle.
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<br>Hope this helps

I find it easy to break the one inch barrier,by incorporating a trigger tweak,proper bedding and tailored ammo. Also required is a sound optics platform and a scope of known value. I keep a Leupie straight 16x with fine crosshairs on hand,for use as an evaluation tool.
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<br>I don't subscribe to the premise,that eeking very solid/repeatable performance out of a Factory rifle,is overly difficult or out of the ordinary.
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<br>Most guys don't have a clue. That is not a stone cast at those on this Board,but a generalization of my take on "Joe Average".
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<br>I'm not implying that a less than sterling performing rifle won't slip between the cracks,of any given Manufacturer,but on the average,accuracy comes rather easy(at least to the degree discussed here).
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<br>Handloading is where I find the most performance enhancement,in regards to reliable accuracy extraction.......................
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I suppose I shoulkd clarify. I never shoot any rifle as is from the box. I always take it apart, adjust the trigger, and bed the action. To me, those are just the things you need to do to any rifle. So in my mind, an out-of-the-box rifle means an unaccurized receiver, factory barrel, and factory stock--but properly bedded. I haven't shot one "as is" from the factory for so long I couldn't tell you what kind of accuracy to expect. I don't see a reason to even try and shoot one that way since the trigger and bedding are so easy and inexpensive to do.
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<br>Blaine

I gave up on factory barrels years ago.But before I did my buddie and myself had a gun shop not to far away from our home range .The guy that owned the gun shop was real cool.He
<br>had a flow of used 700s going threw his shop all the time.He would let us borrow one with out paying anything.We would pop home,Clean the barrel (always had to do that) mount a Leupold that actually worked.Do some reloading and pop out to the range and see what the junk would do. 243s , 6mm Rems
<br>,308s, 708s,25-06s,270s ,280s,06s and a couple of 7mm mags fell into out hands.Some were shooters some were not.If we could get good accuracy we would go pay for the rifle if we could not we just gave um back.I picked up a very accurate 270 this way.Problem is these factory barrels are as ruff as a cobb and you just get tired of fighting the fouling.Now a days with there flexible machining cells (FMC)s rotten quality, 8 lb triggers and Key locks I pass.As Jim Borden says there almost not worth fixing anymore.
<br>dave

I wonder if everyone is talking about the same number of shots in a group. I tend to shoot 3 shot groups in my hunting rifles, as I hope to not need 5 shots to get the job done. For target and varmit rifles, I like to use a 5 shot group. This will affect the group size considerably.
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<br>On a sporter weight rifle for big game, I expect a 3 shot group to be 1.5 inches or less with factory ammo. Sometimes a little work with the bedding is in order but all factory rifles I have owned except one would meet this(excluding lever actions). Having the trigger worked on will help you to shoot more accurately, but will not increase the accuracy of the gun. Most of the factory rifles I have had will easily shoot under one inch 3-shot groups at 100 yards with good handloads. Of course this is off a bench with good bags and rests. All my target/varmit factory guns will do 5 shots under 1 inch.
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<br>In my experience with running rifle ranges for the army and helping many people learn to shoot, Not everyone can shoot as accurately as the gun is capable of. Get 3 people together and shoot groups through a rifle and you will usually get 2 or 3 different averages for group size. Todays factory rifles shoot better than many peoples ability. It is also a waste of time, in my opinion, to compare accuracy from one brand to the other. They all deliver enough accuracy for the average hunting applications. If you need more-go the custom route.
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<br>Also, large bore rifles are usually very accurate. It is just harder for somone to shoot them accurately. That is why group size tends to be larger with the big bores.

The question is hard one to answer for the guys on this board,little experence with Factory loads and Factory rifles.

Kodiak,
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<br>Good post. I'd concur with all you said...............

Thanks everyone for the info. I know that most of you do not use stock rifles and ammo a lot but right now I am just starting to get into the shooting part or things a lot more. I do not reload yet but hope to be before years end. I have hunted whitetails for the last 18 years having killed my first when I was 8 and got at least 1 every year since then except for the season that I was in boot camp. I have always just taken the trusty old Rem 788 out of the cabinet, shot it once to make sure the scope was still on and went and shot my deer. Now I am starting what I see could easily become a very expensive habit, especially if I keep hanging around here.(grin) I just purchased a used Win. 70 ss in 300WSM for $500 that a guy says he shot 3 boxes of shells through and was getting 1.5"- 1.75" groups with and thought that was about average but thought I would ask you all to see if that was right. My best friend just bought a Browning A-bolt ss in the 300WSM also so it will be interesting to see how they compare after I get mine scoped and we get our shooting table built and chrony set up. I will let you all know what our results are with the two comparing recoil, accuracy, and muzzle velocity. This will have to be with factory ammo until we can get things together to start reloading. The sad thing about it is that I have not even shot this rifle yet and I am already dreaming the day that Sako starts making their 75 in the much anticipated 257WSM.(See what I am talking about, I have already been hanging aroung here too long.) Anyway, thanks again for the info. Ryan
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I meant 5-shot groups. Here are some typical results from 202 and R93 rifles when fed their pet loads :
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<br>Sauer 202 in 7x64 (160 Sierra GK/N160/56.0- CCI 250)
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<br>Blaser R93 in .300 Win Mag (165 Sierra GK/N160/73.5-CCI 250)
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