Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Ejector marks always bad?

Agreed.

WSM brass is pretty tough stuff and will take a lot of abuse.But I have noticed even factory ammo from some makers will exhibit signs of pressure that is too hot in some rifles.I have seen it many times with factory stuff for the 7mm and 270WSM's. I think they want the cartridges to "look good" and live up to advertised billing.

If you are getting brass flow back into the ejector slot or hole with a given load, your load is too hot,regardless what your primer looks like.Period.

This is Handloading 101.

If "conventional" pressure indicator are not reliable, what do you use for indicator?

Unconventional ones.

Seriously though, knock yourself out. Ejector marks are OK. No big deal.

I'm not telling you what you should do, only what I would do. Big difference.


Edited to add: I didn't mean to imply that there are other indicators (other than conventional) that you should look for or use. I just used the word that way because as a lot of people smarter than me have said, they're not all that reliable. If I'm operating within "book" loads and velocities without them, and without getting loose primer pockets after a few loads, then I call it good. If I get any of the three or loose primer pockets, I back off. Even with "book" loads because every rifle is different.

Sounds like there are a fair number who don't.

Yup, I've seen the same, with Federal HE ammo for the 7 WSM, it was too hot.

+P+1+ ......or whatever

Case case head marks mean something is definitely wrong and the case is not strong enough for that load. Gas cutting is no joke, even if that's all that you're worried about. It starts with the very first case/primer failure.

Make sure your chamber is dry also. An oily chamber will cause ejector marks on a normal load a lot of times. The brass can't grab the chamber walls so it slides back under firing.

I believe I might look in another book... there are lots of them

How are the pockets holding up?

I go by primer appearance and pocket life primarily. Usually excessive extractor marks are accompanied by stiffish bolt lift as well as severely flattened primers. A faint mark on occasional loads with good primer appearance and long pocket life is hardly a thing to loose sleep over. I'd rock on.

A guy that builds pressure testing equipment once told me that brass is the weak link in CF bolt action rifles and that gross common signs of pressure appear far before any dangerous level is reached. Something to consider, not that we didn't already know brass tells.

I did.

The "conventional methods" most of us use are relative to a given rifle; meaning if there was no hard bolt lift and no ejector marks at lower charge weights and now there are, you're probably getting up there in pressures. Matching book velocity with a given powder is a good sign but the individual barrel might be generating higher pressure to get there. The primer type can make a difference too. I believe it was Mule Deer that wrote an article about the effects of different primers on both velocity and pressure. In it I think he points out that the primer type can give a big pressure increase without giving a similar increase in velocity. I've also read another good primer test on pressure/velocity on another site-I believe it was on The Rifleman's Journal which basically demonstrates the same thing.

If it was me with my rifle, I'd back off several grains and accept the fact that with that powder, I'll just have to settle for lower velocities OR go to a slower powder or possibly try another primer, starting low again. Good luck.

Seriously?? This is 180 degrees from anything I've ever read on the subject.

He's using the "best" powders from the bullet manufacturer's manual, which is always a good place to start.

"Ejector marks always bad?".. I've been loading since 18 and now I'm 64...never have pushed my stuff too much but I had a top end 264 load that I shot for years in my custom FN that exhibited no signs even with chrono and manual data but my 700 puked on it! Without a doubt individual rifles as do people have their own personalities, that's why I've never assumed one load is good enough for other rifles in the same chambering.

What I'm having a bit of a hard time to wrap my mind around is, if you're using a load that's been pressure tested by a manufacturer to produce "x" velocity safely with "y" amount of powder, shouldn't you be able to reproduce similar velocity? Different chamber, tighter barrel, etc may cause you adjust the powder charge to reach said velocity as your rifle may reach that pressure level sooner or later. If pressure = velocity, if you reach the manufacturer's velocity shouldn't you be within safe pressure level? What am I missing?

My answer is that I've hit obvious pressure signs in a few different rifles well below "book" velocities because all rifles are different. Hell, I went right past flattened primers to blowing one right out of good brass (tight pockets) below book max. Most bullet manufacturers like to be able to show high velocities with their bullets, a lot use 26" barrels for their test rifles. Some of those velocities are on the optimistic end of the spectrum.

Bottom line is, if you get obvious pressure signs and brass flow you're above the pressures the rifle is designed for.

The .300WSM is loaded hot, I've seen one that blew primers with factory loads.
That said, I have seen marks on the case head where brass wasn't resized enough, and left a mark as the bolt was turned down. If the marks are raised and brass has flowed into the ejector cut, that is a serious pressure sign and I definitely would ease up.

That mirrors what I've seen using a PressureTrace II. I first rented one from a LGS when I started loading with coated bullets (using DanZac, AKA WS2) because I was squeemish about blowing off the mfgr's load data, which is pretty much a necessity with coated bullets. I still go back to it when I switch to slick bullets in a new rifle or caliber, but the results have never changed. I always see onset of at least one and usually two of the "customary" pressure signs before either the pressure trace or my chrono gives me cause to worry.

When I reload .308 FGMM brass, if I wasn't getting high enough chamber pressure to cause swipe, I'd be worried the bullet might get stuck in the barrel.

Just a comment, and I know Weatherby's run on the hot side. All factory Weatherby ammo that I've fired in rifles that they manufactured exhibit ejector marks. With my loads in any of my other rifles, I would have backed down from similar signs.

I don't own any pressure equipment, but when the chrony says I'm approaching Weatherby book velocities, I increase charges by very small increments.

Bottom line for me. In Weatherby rifles with Weatherby ammo, an ejector mark is to be expected.

Once in my life I got heavy bolt lift with a Weatherby and one of my loads on a 100+ degree day. I immediately backed down on that one.

"Also, it's pretty well established that by the time you see ejector marks on a case head, you're well above safe pressures so even if the presence of ejector marks on the softer brass and absence on the harder brass is solely due to the difference in hardness, you could still be operating at an unsafe pressure with both."

Not sure if I agree with that or not. I have several rifles, some commercial guns and one custom and it's surprising a shell to see how many brabds of factory ammo will have ejector marks on the cases after firing. I have one Remington M700 that will crater a primer with any load run through it from a 5.0 gr. Unique gallery load with cast bullets to a full blown moose stomper. Puzzled the hell out of me until I noticed the firing pin hole had been slightly chamfered. Now I bought that rifle NIB at a store so it came that way from the factory.
My .300 Win. Mag. not only hows an ejector mark but very flat primers using Winchester factory ammo.
These days when I do a load work up, I run the loads over the chronograph, record the charge and velocity on a graph and measure the case head and expansion rings as well. Seems to work in keeping me out of trouble.
Paul B.

A good load for my 300 wsm is 64.5 grains Re-17 with a 180 Hornady Spire point. Groups running about .75 inches at 2950 fps from a Browning A-bolt with a 23 inch bbl.