Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Perplexed on ethics of shooting a cow with 2 calves

My buddy and I were hunting for a spike Sunday in the Utah general season elk hunt. We watched a cow and her two young calves run across a sage brush flat and after about 30 shots all three were dead. We were upset that someone would shoot although it was legal to do so. I am perplexed as to the ethics of shooting these elk and the long term effects of such actions on the elk herd. Is it ethical (reagrdless of legality) for hunters to shoot a cow with two young calves? Does it make sense for the health of the herd in the long run? While I would not shoot a cow, I understand that managment of the herd may require that cows be removed. But I was always understood that you shoot the dry cows not the mothers.

the calves will make it on a normal winter

Like most ethics questions, if it makes you uncomfortable, by all means pass.

Orphan calves pretty much have death sentence around here. Winters are just too tough and too many predators for them to do well on their own. So we take calves or dry cows when we have antlerless tags.

I've noticed that many folks, especially with elk, subscribe to the "if it's brown, it's down" philosophy.

I'm no expert by any means, but I've always heard that orphaned calves are quickly adopted in most elk country (cold places).
(Where I live it is a little different. One study says that orphan elk in warm climes often become loners much more so than previously thought. Especially in places where they don't need to herd up for survival).

Anyway, the reason calf calls are said to be popular is because cows will respond to rescue an orphan.

Twin elk are said to be very rare, much more so than twin deer. I suspect you may have seen a calf that had already been adopted by a wet cow.

The rule of thumb I've always heard when facing the calf/cow dilemma is take the sure shot - whichever it is. Orphans will be adopted and calves are often as big as deer.

One has to be really really close (like underneath), or watch a group for a long time to sort out wet and dry cows.

I don't get to watch elk near as often as deer, but I think an orphaned fawn might fare a little better without mom as long as it has some company to learn from and help a bit with defense. Does are by no means kind to their kids when winter shows and groceries get thin. If junior finds an obviously good morsel, mom will run him off in most cases and take it for herself.

I'd have shot one of the calves, best eating out there.

Not sure about mulies, but it's nature's way for a whitetail to have twins. Buck and a doe.

Here in Colorado with an abundance of elk, killing cows is the bestway to either reduce the herd size or at least keep it to a healthy level.No reason at all not to shoot cows.fact is , inCO more cows are shot than bulls. The 20% kill success would be closer to 10-12 if not. By rifle season,most calfs are weaned.Once the elk herd up, they are going to get what ever food all the rest are. A hard winter will take it's toll,mama around or not.

I think people are missing that the OP said that all three were killed. As long as there were three tags, this was good to go.

If the tags said antlerless, it doesn't make much difference on the age.The whole point is to reduce the number of elk on antlerless tags.
Actually, shooting spikes is worse if you are looking to get a better bull to cow ratio and shoot mature bulls.Until Colorado instituted the 4 pt or better rule, almost all bull elk shot were spikes or two yr old bulls. Very few made it thru the 2nd year to become branch antlered bulls.The spikes have not learned about hunters yet and are easy prey.

I would consider it less ethical to shoot the spikes than a cow or calfs. Those spikes need time to grow into mature bulls.

If a cow/calf come buy me with a spike bull or two, and I have an either sex tag,I'd probably shoot the cow or maybe even the calf if I didn't need much meat.

I'd think states that have spike only hunts are trying to build the herd up, but if so,why are there cow tags then as this seemed to be the case. Doesn't make much sense.

Not true. The drys are usuallya slightly different color, most times. It don't take much looking, if you know what to look for.....and I don't mean 'like underneath'.

IMO, in Utah it's the DWRs way of giving folks a chance to go elk hunting while managing those same units for limited entry (ie big bulls) hunts.

I've not heard this before. Any hints about the differences? What part of the animal is different? Lighter, darker, browner?
Thanks!

I don't care of its legal or not. Its wrong in my opinion. I'm not going to shoot a whitetail with a young fawn. I don't need to eat venison that bad. Same goes for Elk as far as I'm concerned. Just my opinion.

Yes. I'd like a little schooling on the color disparities too.

In many instances dry cow/does etc may be in slightly better condition, since they've avoided the nutritional stresses of feeding Jr over the spring and summer months. In really good years (like 2011 for us) and with ample groceries though, I find it a tough call, and I've dropped a few early season elk that could still leak milk that I thought were dry.

Being somewhat more social than deer, I've heard reports of cow elk nursing unrelated calves. but I have no solid observations myself. By the time most hunting seasons are in session though the kids are weaned and on hard groceries.

The mule deer fawns around our home are still makeing some nursing attempts, but moms are not standing for it.

These situations are personal deals IMO and not something other hunters with different beliefs should be criticized about.

There are plenty of big issues I suspect most experienced hunters have witnessed at some point that are blatantly unethical, usually illegal and extremely poor sportsmanship at a minimum to be concerned about.

Next time you are near a herd, try to concentrate on color only. Don't watch for calves following. First, the bulls bodies are always the lightest. Some even appear to be white, compared to the rest of the bunch. You can really pick the bulls out at distance. The slab-sided old bulls especially stand out. Even bull calves of the year will be slightly lighter than heifer calves. Now pay attention to the color on the cows, they are not all the same. Most wets will have a brown/tan tint, and the drys will be slightly more gray. Now, I'm talking main body color, not neck color. Ignore the neck. it'll be anything from washed-out red, to near black. The differences are slight, but more apparent in sunshine. After you pick one as a dry, study her. After a little watching, you'll rarely see a calf near her. It is tuff to tell, unless there are a few to compare too. Singles are impossible, as there is nothing to guage difference. And it's tuff to see diff's when they are travelling fast.

Thanks! I never even thought to look at those differences. Should be an interesting exercise next time I'm elk hunting.