Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Perplexed on ethics of shooting a cow with 2 calves

Ethics? If numbers were down round here I would have a different opinion on shooting a calf. I do however have an opinion, maybe a questions of ethics on bulls that are shot and disagree with the four point on one side restriction here in Colorado. My opinion is the restriction should be six on both sides.

At the risk of wandering somewhere I don't belong I'll share this:

I once heard a Philosopher/Apologist describe Ethos or Ethics as the "imperative", in other words right and wrong as defined by God or Natural Law. Morality, on the other hand, is the "indicative", reflecting what society has concluded as acceptable. What may seem perfectly moral to one person can be seen as amoral or even immoral to another, especially if we look across different societies.

I don't know that I see the dilemma presented as necessarily an ethical question as much as a moral decision. I can certainly see where under some circumstances, shooting an orphaned calf that wanders around the trail head for two days could rub against my idea of fair chase and good sportsmanship. On the other hand, I wouldn't say it is wrong to harvest said calf either.

I don't know this clears anything up but makes for good mental calisthenics.

What I had hoped for was a discussion of hunting ethics from not only from a game management perspective, but also from reality check of changing hunter�s attitudes and the current times. There is not right or wrong opinion as the shooting was legal. Unlike so many, my thoughts and opinions can be changed with a reasonable argument. I hope others will also consider the arguments. Thirty shots to maim and then slaughter the three elk was one issue. I watched in my binoculars in disgust. A great way to help build a case for anti-hunting advocates. Another was an issue of game management. Killing breeding elk and future breeding elk versus older ones. Survival through the year was another. Speculation over weather conditions in the future is not easy and often wrong. What happens to young orphans was another. I appreciate everyone�s input and the discussion.

There were some good and reasonable arguments from many. I am persuaded by a number of reasonable arguments for shooting cows with calves including from a management and weather situation. I doubt that I will cow hunt, but I will be much more understanding of those so inclined and even reconsider my situations. From others, I worry that the future of hunting cannot be �brown and down� or based on some pre-historic hunting basis. This is now and there are so many hunters in the field to take so many animals with modern weapons on reliance of the �Fish and Game�s� determination of the unpredictable future across the entire state that I worry about the elk populations and I am scared by those attitudes. It would not take much to devastate the population considering the numbers being killed and a hard winter.

Best answer ever!

I am always perplexed why some people feel that killing of a young being is somehow more despised than that of a mature one, be it a hunted animal or a human. It is taking of a life one way or another. Somehow people transfer the "cute baby " concept into baby's life being more precious than that of an adult. I personally find this unnatural.
I am a hunter and feel sadness when I take a life of an animal. But I still do it and need no justification, be it a bull, cow or a calf.

I completely understand killing an animal to fill a larder,regardless of age;and that it makes sense from a management perspective. I relish game meat myself and am not fussy about the age and gender of the animal that provides it.If I were so inclined,I would kill one myself.And I won't throw stones at someone who takes a young animal.

OTOH if there is a reasonable expectation that I can kill an older animal,a dry cow,say,I will pass the younger stuff and look for that instead.Part of the hunting experience for me is trying to be a bit selective in what I shoot,and this does not always restrict itself to antler size or anything like that....but "age" is a criteria,and I'll always look for the older animal because,frankly, killing immature animals in some hunting areas is just too damned easy.

When hunting for the pot,I like older animals with bigger bodies that are "on the mend"..they taste really good(like aged beef from older cattle),and provide more steaks.Plus, such animals have already made their contributions to the herd.

I agree with Greenhorn on the issue of killing sub-mature males when a perfectly good cow is available for the taking,and would provide just as much meat.

But this is a personal thing,and in most cases F&G biologists know what they are doing and why they earmark certain types of animals for sustained yield of a species...assuming of course meddling sportsmen and others leave them alone to do their job.

The fusilade is a completely different subject.Killing isn't always pretty and some are better at it than others.

Back in September my hunting partner and I got in on a herd after a week of hard hunting up around timberline. We each had either sex tags. The first good opportunity for a shot was a raghorn. I'd have taken it if he was legal, but he wasn't (point restrictions). If it had been the first couple days of the season, I wouldn't have. A little later, the herd bull fired up and we were chasing them up as they were headed to their beds. As we were cow calling, a yearling cow peeled off and came over to check us out at 15 yards and 5 yards. We had the herd bull up ahead and a couple more days to hunt, so didn't even think about it. If it had been the last day of the hunt with no bugling bulls nearby, that would have been a different story. Would have been perfect for the five mile pack out. The way I see it, the DOW wouldn't have given me an ES tag if killing a cow was bad for the herd.

Yea, it is taking of a life, but only the older critters got a chance to experience that life. I don't want to take a fish that hasn't had a chance to spawn. JMO, and I have on occasion taken young deer. To me, they are tender but best cooked in bacon grease to lend some flavor.

Personally, I think that's a very slippery slope; if we need to let the animals "experience life" then at what age is it OK to whack 'em? After all, a three year-old bull may have bred more than once but he's still young and filled with so much promise......

I do agree on the bacon grease though

Pretty much sums it up. Antlerless tags are for antlerless elk, and you never know someone else's situation. 30 shots for 3 elk is inexcusable.

I helped a guy find and finish the cow he'd wounded out in NM a few years back. Wondering the whole time about the details of his situation... seemed like he wanted an elk BAD. When we got it all taken care of he tried to donate half of it to us for helping him. We politely refused.

Turned out he'd been laid off and out of work for several months, had kids to feed, and was down to his last couple packages of burger in the freezer. This guy needed an elk more than I ever have.

Personally I won't shoot the cow with a calf if I can tell, if it's between the two I will shoot the calf. Usually I'll try to take a youngish cow preferably 1 1/2 yrs old with no calf.

Most of my cow hunting is taking out youths and family, so I will go over the scenarios and ultimately it's up to them what they pull the trigger on.

There's no ethics involved at ending a life at 7 months or 10 years... foods food and young is better than old. When bird hunting, this years hatch are always better than the old birds, but I can't tell the difference when they flush.

Kent

What sucks is when a local elk herd is made up of entirely cows, calves, spikes and 2X3 bulls. Regardless of what a guy wants to shoot.. that [bleep] sucks and isn't natural.

Killing cows/calves is great.. let those dink ass easy come raghorns grow up and screw a couple cows. Who wants a 25" elk rack on their wall.

10 or 11 months out of the year, that's completely natural.